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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Special features of Quirky 5.4.91
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2013, 20:06    Post subject:  Special features of Quirky 5.4.91
Subject description: Discussion of "one file" Quirky and f2fs
 

Yesterday I announced a new release of Quirky, our Puppy that explores new ideas.

The original intro page for Quirky:
http://bkhome.org/quirky/

Announcement for Quirky 5.4.91:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky-5.4.91/quirky-5.4.91-readme.htm

My blog post, with download link:
http://bkhome.org/blog2/?viewDetailed=00152

This forum thread is for anyone who wants to discuss the concepts, and implementation-of in Quirky.
Any other issues, such as video incompatibility, an application not working right, etc., is not a Quirky issue -- as Quirky is built from Racy packages, so post such feedback to the Wary/Racy forum thread:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=84618

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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 835
Location: lincoln

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2013, 20:17    Post subject:  

have given the kernel quirky a whirl on a lenovo t61 using your grub instructions (thank you)

loaded correctly configuring display/sound and lan without complaints

unfortunately I did not notice any boot load improvements (1800mHz with 7.2k drives) but certainly not worse

clever me thinks....

Smile
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2013, 20:39    Post subject:  

The point was made on my blog that, like Tinycore Linux, this "one file" technique requires a lot of RAM.

Yes and no. The comparison with Tinycore is not appropriate. It has been a very long time since I looked at Tinycore, so correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that Tinycore has the entire filesystem in the "initramfs", full expanded, and runs it from there. No switch_root is involved.

Quirky does it totally differently. Quirky has the usual Puppy files, 'vmlinuz', 'initrd.gz', 'racy_5.4.91.sfs', it is just that the latter two are embedded inside the former.

Or, more correctly, initrd.gz, which is the cpio initramfs, is embedded inside vmlinuz, and racy_5.4.91.sfs is embedded inside initrd.gz.

Now, racy_5.4.91.sfs is our usual xz-compressed squashfs filesystem, so is very small, and it stays that way.

At bootup, a tmpfs is created and racy_5.4.91.sfs is placed in it, then moved into a aufs layered filesystem (which also has a save-file on subsequent boots), then a switch_root takes place and the initramfs is discarded.

In other words, only the original kernel is left (totally) in RAM.

puppy_5.4.91.sfs, which has all of the Puppy files, is in a tmpfs, which is also in RAM, but the operating system is able to use a swap file/partition.

Which means, that the Quirky approach does not need a "lot of RAM". Not necessarily, anyway. I mentioned in the Quirky release notes that there should be at least 512MB RAM, however Quirky would probably work in 256MB RAM if there is a swap file/partition -- but, I wouldn't recommend it, it would likely be slow.

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2013, 20:49    Post subject:  

It has been suggested that the name 'kernel.qky' needs a rethink.

Yes, I have been thinking that for sometime. I left it at that name for now, to get the ball rolling.

As any Puppy can be built as a "one file" Puppy, I suggest that the name include the name of the Puppy.

As far as the "qky" extension, I suggest "pup". We did have .pup package files a long time ago, but that extension should now be available for a new use.

So, a one-file pup built from Racy could be 'racy.pup'.

But, should the version number be included?

In that case, it would be 'racy-5.4.91.pup'

We can reserve .pup to always mean these one-file puppies. Furthermore, we can get ROX-Filer to recognise .pup mime-type to have this new meaning, and offer to open up and edit the contents -- for those who would like to hack the contents.

We already do this for 'initrd.gz' files. Awhile back I added mime-type handling, so if you click on a 'initrd.gz' file, you get an offer to open it up, then you can edit the contents, then put it together again. Which is great for hacking your pup's bootup.

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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 689
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2013, 23:41    Post subject:  

I tried to get it running last night, but had no luck booting via grub4dos.

It started to boot, then the computer just hung for a LOOONNNGGGG time, no progress.

Any tips??
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 835
Location: lincoln

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb 2013, 23:44    Post subject:  

I had the same problem on an old IBM t21 laptop which had insufficient memory

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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 689
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 02:39    Post subject:  

8gig of ram should be enough tho right..?
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Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 760
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 03:14    Post subject:  

Hi p310don

8gig ram is more than adequate - works in 2gig ram here. (1gig ram is plenty)

Tips ? - A possible potential reason -
grub4dos is fussy aboat “order”. It likes to keep its list in order.

So - if one has a folder named “qky” for example - it needs to be placed in the correct position (or order) in the menu.lst file.

So logically Q (folders) are positioned after P folders (dir)’s and before R.
If one just dumps one’s Q (qky) folder (dir) anywhere - grub4dos gets the hump.

Could be worth checking - HTH - best regards - Ray

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Asus 701SD. 2gig ram. 8gb SSD. IBM A21m laptop. 192mb ram. PIII Coppermine proc. X60 T2400 1.8Ghz proc. 2gig ram. 80gb hdd. T41 Pentium M 1400Mhz. 512mb ram.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 03:48    Post subject:  

Oh it is explained here.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky-5.4.91/quirky-5.4.91-readme.htm

Barry write
"I created a directory '/quirky5.4.91' in one of the hd ext3 partitions. I then created an entry in the grub4dos 'menu.lst' file:

title Quirky 5.4.91 (sda7/quirky5.4.91)
uuid f547d8df-78f1-44db-a84a-600d9e9185cb
kernel /quirky5.4.91/kernel.qky pmedia=atahd psubdir=quirky5.4.91

Faster to download here
http://ftp.nluug.nl/ibiblio/distributions/quirky/quirky-5.4.91/

Ray I fail to get what your refer to here
"So logically Q (folders) are positioned after P folders (dir)’s and
before R. If one just dumps one’s Q (qky) folder (dir) anywhere -
grub4dos gets the hump."

How can one decide on such things? The computer place it where it does?

Okay I download and see if it loads Smile

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Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 760
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 04:31    Post subject:  

Hi nooby

Normally when one installs and runs grub4dos - it will search your drives and automatically produce a menu.lst.

However as BK explains - with kernel.qky - one needs to manually edit menu.lst - because grub4dos won’t automatically work with “kernel.qky” - therefore where (in menu.lst) one positions one’s manually edited entry is potentially important when using grub4dos.

HTH - bets regards - Ray

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Asus 701SD. 2gig ram. 8gb SSD. IBM A21m laptop. 192mb ram. PIII Coppermine proc. X60 T2400 1.8Ghz proc. 2gig ram. 80gb hdd. T41 Pentium M 1400Mhz. 512mb ram.
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 527
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 04:47    Post subject: Testing the “litter”  

Hi Barry,

I tested Racy 5.4.91 and Quirky 5.4.91 yesterday both with a manual frugal install to a Fat32 USB2 stick. (Syslinux 4.04 boot - Nvidia GeForce 210)

The old Nouveau problem has definitely reared its ugly head again. Both booted to a distorted frozen desktop which seemed to be a frame-buffer echo of the vesamenu.c32 splash screen.
Using nouveau.modeset=0, I was however able to get vesa displays and then to switch to NV. Having done that however the show stopper was that the boot time extended to 180 seconds compared to 40 seconds with Precise 5.4.93 k3.8.0 on the same stick!
In order to eliminate syslinux as a possible cause, I also booted from CDs with the same result.

Precise 5.4.93 has been the best experience to date on my particular hardware and I have made some progress with the dual partition approach (fat/f2fs) which I have written up in this thread:
www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=687182#687182

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 04:58    Post subject:  

Thanks. it fail to show a normal screen it only has some -----
on it in different colors way up on the screen one need to
hard reboot. Exact same on both.
so same problem as ETP reports on.

I have HP Desktop with Athlon Dual core 3GB RAM 250MB HD
resolution 1366x768 LCD screen
Gallium 0.4 on NV8

So most likely it this code ? nouveau.modeset=0
So hope next Racy find ways to
fix this nouveau thing?
I tested racy and it booted fine with that code.

I test quirky now that one booted just fine into vesa too
if one use that code and then it suggest one test with
proper driver so please fix that |smile|

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Last edited by nooby on Thu 28 Feb 2013, 09:11; edited 2 times in total
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 689
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 08:32    Post subject:  

Ok, got it to boot, after about 3-4 mins of waiting, I get garbled screen like two above.

Crtl Alt Bkspace gives me a blinking cursor, only solution for me is hard poweroff.
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1369
Location: Malvern, Worcs, UK

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:05    Post subject:  

Booted fine but unable to create a savefile - don't get asked for either the "Are You Ready" screen or savefile size on 1st reboot and even if location is set by Barry's instruction in his blog the size does not get set - see screenie

This is a "frugal" install on an NTFS drive inside subdirectory test-quirky

Cheers
peebee
capture13832.png
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capture13832.png


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Last edited by peebee on Thu 28 Feb 2013, 14:21; edited 1 time in total
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 835
Location: lincoln

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb 2013, 13:05    Post subject:  

hey peebee

there is a note at the bottom of the announcement on barry's blog

you have to select change folder, it's a known bug

it worked ok for me

http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky-5.4.91/quirky-5.4.91-readme.htm

Smile
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