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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Puppy Ripped off by Google Developer??
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jeff-nelson


Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 23
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 21:34    Post subject: Re: Puppy Ripped off by Google Developer??  

Hi folks,

I'm Jeff Nelson. I saw your thread and thought I'd add my two cents.

First, let me say that I love Puppy. I've been using it for years. Even at Google, I used my modified version as my primary dev box for 18 months inside Google, because in my opinion it was vastly superior to Google's other internal operating system choices for engineers.


Quote:
Puppy Ripped off by Google Developer??


I don't see how you think I "ripped off" anything.

First, other than a very small bonus for the patent (which is not a patent on Puppy btw) I never made a dime off this whole project. Second, Puppy is GPL and I didn't violate any terms of the GPL. Third, when Chrome OS was released, it was also open sourced.


Quote:
Clearly "Guppy" is short for "GooglePuppy". Shows the genesis of ChromeOS, and how visionary Barry is.


Yes exactly. It's a Google naming convention to re-engineer an existing product and stick a "G" at the front. So Puppy becomes "Guppy".

My product manager and I quickly changed the name to "Google OS" as that was easier to pitch to management.


Quote:
The patent I think may relate to something I think either a puplet or early puppy was able to do, involving booting over PXE.


To some extent. I don't want to go into any detail, as its certainly covered by the NDA I signed for Google. Google takes their NDAs and trade secrets very seriously.


Quote:
Exactly, which make this guys claim to having invented it even more ludicrous.

yes Puppy is released under GPL, so yes anyone can take it, change it and re-release it. But you cant them claim that you created it or that you 'invented' it.


I definitely have never claimed to have invented PuppyLinux. In fact I didn't even bring up the name "PuppyLinux" outside Google - or any other technical specifics of the work I did at that time, that Google might consider covered by their NDA.

Some people are confused why the patent doesn't spell out "Chrome OS" or the full operating system. Patents are not product specifications or design documents. A patent only specify the construction of one small, unique feature that goes into a product.

I had actually written two patents for different features in the Google OS distribution, but Google apparently didn't follow thorough with filing the second patent.


Quote:
I think what this guy is claiming is that his work on behalf of google formed the foundation of googleOS and ChromeOS and that others are taking the credit for that. He is saying that he put together the initial code that demonstrated the ability for googleOS to tap into online processing power and/or app delivery via an internet connection, and he is saying that this processing power/app delivery was based on google services and google storage.


Yes, thats a very, very roughly accurate summary.

I don't mean to say that I invented everything that goes into an OS, wrote the OS from scratch, or built the computer it ran on, etc.


Quote:
Yea except thats nothing new either.


I know some commentors are claiming there's no novelty, because Marc Andressen invented the web browser... so... it's not new.

But thats like saying, Grog the Cave Man invented the wheel, so the Toyota Prius is not new.

There's still plenty of room for novelty and innovation in the software industry, despite the fact that related stuff may have occurred in the past.

Now that we have Microsoft at one end of the dipole and Chrome OS at the other end - I hope we will see even more entries into the consumer Operating System Wars. Certainly, I don't think the status quo of consumer operating systems (or web browsers for that matter) is particularly good.

I'm just glad I was at the right place, at the right time, and with the right mindset, to realize the product vision behind Chrome OS, and push Chrome OS through at Google back in 2007.

Having access to an excellent GPL open source Linux distribution like Puppy Linux was definitely a big part of that. And the PuppyLinux community, and Barry Kauler in particular, deserve my thanks.

- Jeff

PS - Now if you want a piece of the patent bonus that Google paid me for this project... I'll buy you half a beer sometime and we'll call it even.

Last edited by jeff-nelson on Fri 22 Feb 2013, 00:26; edited 1 time in total
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jeff-nelson


Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 23
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 23:08    Post subject: googleOS?  

Quote:
I still have a copy of googleOS - I must dig it out and give it another whirl. I seem to remember feeling it was so much less capable than Puppy unless you had a high speed umbilical tying you to a good broadband link. Puppy was faster and could do things offline to...


I'm a little confused by this statement.

Unless you are a Google employee you couldn't possibly have a copy of the original "Google OS" (aka Guppy) distribution that I sent out to a company-wide, internal email list at Google.

Did someone else publish a Linux distribution they called "googleOS" perhaps?
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NeroVance


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 149
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 00:12    Post subject:  

Hey Jeff. If this is actually Jeff.

I quite understand Google being fairly secretive, even if massive enough to swallow YouTube and 'em up.

I kinda wonder if someone else claimed to have made a "googleos", I do wonder if they are thinking of "gOs" that was at one point used on some netbooks back in the day.
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 10:09    Post subject:  

NeroVance wrote:
Hey Jeff. If this is actually Jeff.

I quite understand Google being fairly secretive, even if massive enough to swallow YouTube and 'em up.

I kinda wonder if someone else claimed to have made a "googleos", I do wonder if they are thinking of "gOs" that was at one point used on some netbooks back in the day.


I agree that this was probably what the other poster meant. gOS tauted itself as, "An alternative OS with Google Apps and other Web 2.0 apps for the modern user." Even came bundled on the 'Cloudbook' back in the day.
They even went so far as to use the same stylized g for their logo.


More info can be found here: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gos


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NeroVance


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 149
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 10:41    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
NeroVance wrote:
Hey Jeff. If this is actually Jeff.

I quite understand Google being fairly secretive, even if massive enough to swallow YouTube and 'em up.

I kinda wonder if someone else claimed to have made a "googleos", I do wonder if they are thinking of "gOs" that was at one point used on some netbooks back in the day.


I agree that this was probably what the other poster meant. gOS tauted itself as, "An alternative OS with Google Apps and other Web 2.0 apps for the modern user." Even came bundled on the 'Cloudbook' back in the day.
They even went so far as to use the same stylized g for their logo.


More info can be found here: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gos



Oh my Laughing

I remember that thing, I wonder what became of that thing?
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2868
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 12:35    Post subject:  

@NeroVance: http://gosforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4339

Looks like the dev dude got bored and moved on... or something like that Wink

EDIT: D'oh! Link fixed.

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Last edited by starhawk on Fri 22 Feb 2013, 14:41; edited 1 time in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 14:20    Post subject:  

I may have tested that greenOS it looks very familiar.
But I have puppies and other linuxes on some 5 different computers
so I am too lazy to boot all of them up just to find out. Smile

I am curious on if Greenguy really had the one Jeff talks about
could it not have been Chrome compiled for to be booted on intel cpu
there where such several of them some years ago. Even I manged
to boot one of these but them where android AFAIK.

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Caneri

Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 1580
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 14:44    Post subject:  

If all of this is true, then this definitely is a feather in Puppy Linux's hat...congrats to Barry for sure!!

Also, if true, and I have a tendency to think that it is true, I wonder if Google would consider high speed server space for our little project. Just a thought. Some people would recoil at the thought but my mind says growing is good...so grow if possible.

I was going to move to Debian/Ubuntu/BSD etc but as Smokey01 said to me awhile back..."we are Puppy and it works so why move onto another bloated OS...we are happy as clams" (this isn't an exact quote..sorry Grant..but the point is well taken)

I for one am intrigued by the prospect that Puppy finally made it onto phones (one of my original request to Telus Corp).

Resistance is Futile...Eric

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2551
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 14:49    Post subject:  

Yes, that's similar to what I remember. Obviously not googleOS then. Cheeky of them to have passed it off as googleOS though.
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NeroVance


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
Posts: 149
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2013, 08:40    Post subject:  

Caneri wrote:
If all of this is true, then this definitely is a feather in Puppy Linux's hat...congrats to Barry for sure!!

Also, if true, and I have a tendency to think that it is true, I wonder if Google would consider high speed server space for our little project. Just a thought. Some people would recoil at the thought but my mind says growing is good...so grow if possible.

I was going to move to Debian/Ubuntu/BSD etc but as Smokey01 said to me awhile back..."we are Puppy and it works so why move onto another bloated OS...we are happy as clams" (this isn't an exact quote..sorry Grant..but the point is well taken)

I for one am intrigued by the prospect that Puppy finally made it onto phones (one of my original request to Telus Corp).

Resistance is Futile...Eric


You got Telus to offer phones with Puppy on them? Neat!

I use Bell (Aliant actually, it's the division in my region), hence who knows. Still, a Canadian service offering excellent phones with Puppy (I hope), that sounds swell.
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2452
Location: near here

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2013, 11:46    Post subject:  

Quote:

Quote:

The patent I think may relate to something I think either a puplet or early puppy was able to do, involving booting over PXE.



To some extent. I don't want to go into any detail, as its certainly covered by the NDA I signed for Google. Google takes their NDAs and trade secrets very seriously.


If Jeff is the real Jeff then he is virtually admitting Google has patented some technology that already existed in Puppy - and therefore under the GPL license.

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4238
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2013, 13:12    Post subject:  

amigo wrote:
And what is Puppy 'based' off of?


Euh... http://distro.ibiblio.org/amigolinux/ ? Smile

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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2013, 13:14    Post subject:  

It is interesting that Puppy was the inspiration to Jeff but it seems to me from Jeff's original post that it was running in RAM that he liked and the patent was something to do with net loading apps.

I don't care really. The whole American patent system is mad - it discourages the small guy and can be used against non-American firms to hinder their ability to compete.

What intrigues me is Amigo's comment that Puppy was not the first Live CD to run in RAM. I am intrigued. It certainly was not the first Live CD but I'd love to know which other Linux ran in RAM by default and was a full blown system like Puppy. Knoppix could be set by cheatcode to run in RAM but the default was to run from CD and you needed a lot of RAM to run solely in RAM. Damn Small LInux was based on Knoppix so did not run in RAM by default. What other small footprint GUI Linux's were around in the early days of Puppy?
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puppy_apprentice


Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2013, 15:23    Post subject:  

in 2003 i was testing ByzantineOS - Linux with Mozilla as Desktop, loaded to RAM - something like grandfather (or one of grandfathers?) for FirefoxOS and GoogleOS?

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=byzantineos
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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2247

PostPosted: Sat 23 Feb 2013, 16:14    Post subject:  

I'm pretty sure that Knoppix also loaded to RAM from the very start -before it even had persistence. I tried it out once on an old PII -I think it took about 20 minutes to load to the (KDE2) desktop. Wait, I can already hear the next comment -Yeah, Puppy had to come along and invent fast booting...
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