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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Lucid Puppy 5.2.8 - Updated ISO Version 005 - APR 05 2012
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Sun 17 Feb 2013, 10:45    Post subject: There probably won't be a Lupu Updated -- but don't panic  

Hi Atle,

It is highly unlikely that there will be an “updated” or "upgraded" version of Lupu for the following reasons:
1. In building Lupu, binaries from Ubuntu 10 & 11 were used. If I remember correctly, Lupu is about 2/3s compatible with those distros. Ubuntu 12 uses not only a newer kernel but also a newer glib (which I think means graphics library). Consequently, the packages developed for Ubuntu 12 are not backward compatible with Lupu as they are dependent upon that newer library.
2. You can't just use newer apps, or even substitute a newer kernel, the latter, itself, being a PITA. Upgrading Lupu would require not only the use of the newer kernel, but also the new glib: essentially building the new version “from scratch.” If you did that you end up with Precise Pup.
3. Both Pemasu and jejy69 have published non-pae versions of Precise Pup, although jejy69's version is admittedly difficult to keep track of. He is primarily interested in developing alternate Windows and File Managers for Puppy. So his threads on the Forum providing the link to the non-pae precise ISO also discusses his Slacko pups. You can download jejy69's Lxpup 11.12 no pae version from here:
http://lxpup.weebly.com/lxpup.html. Its default windows manager is Lxde which, although takes a little getting used-to, actually is very customizable and refreshing. It has Playdaz's seal of approval.
Pemasu's version can be downloaded from here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=77697 It is my “work-horse.”
Either can use the applications developed for the PAE-Version of Precise. Additionally, with few exceptions, either can also use the applications developed for Lupu/Lucid although before doing so I would exercise caution: Back-up your SaveFile &/or use PaDS, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=81511&sid=45284380b8aa384ba4d3157ea00e07ce to convert a Lupu pet to an SFS. Just installing the pet may overwrite newer libs neede by the newer applications in your SaveFile breaking those apps. Deleting the pet will not re-install the needed libs. An SFS only “overwrites” the libs in the “merged system” not the SaveFile. Unloading an SFS returns libs in the SaveFile to priority.

Hope this helps,

mikesLr

P.S. I've given up trying to convince Devs that modern equipment capable of accessing more than 1 CPU and 4Gbs of RAM needs a 64-Bit OS; that PAE kernels require faster CPUs than non-pae kernels so the latter are as fast or faster on non-modern equipment. PAE should be the exception in Puppy whose market is us fans and the "third-world" using 2nd hand equipment. But it's not surprising that Devs acquire modern equipment and, building for their own pleasure, are attracted to PAE kernels. Be thankful that Pemasu and jejy69 still think of us sometimes. And that 01micko still takes an interest in building a Slacko with a non-pae kernel. Slackos, by the way, run great on my computers.
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sun 17 Feb 2013, 11:46    Post subject:  

Hi Mikeslr...

that is one heck of a nice answer. Actually I had this idea about this PAE stuff to be a bit similar to aparteid:-) ITs for some folks only...

I feel its hard to make new spinnoffs as things get complicated with the PAE stuff. If 64 bit versions are better, its at least something people will understand, as PAE is like really really greek to most folks out there.

So is what you say, that it should have been Precise 32 AND 64 bits and not Precise and retroprecise? Even there with this retro one can get confused.



All my laptops are good old crap machines with little ram and sometimes very small hard drives. I have done great testing with RetroPrecise on this machines and it looks great, even if not to much of interest in the Precise repo yet.

When i talk about making a new version of Lucied, i simply mean the old one being made over like a shineover and some bugs to be removed as they are probably still there. No new kernel or advanced stuff. Just a simple makeover of the 005 version to become more up to date as Lucid DOES have a lots of programs and are very much my favorite puppy.

Mikeslr... I have tested Slacko, the non PAE version and what is a bit stunning is that you can remove the entire installation from its partition, even if not running "pfix=ram" and just replace it with another Slacko or some other puppy, run grub4dos and then reboot the new OS.

Is there some difference in how Lucid and Slacko uses the ram? Is Slacko less dependent on its files on the drive than Lucied?

The reason i ask is that i am investigating a little bit around making a perfect RAM ONLY version of Lucid of Slacko to boot FROM your Android phone. Been experimenting a bit and found out it works well, but needs a custom ISO that gives you a great surfing experience with a RAM ONLY file system.

The reason for thinking RAM ONLY(might be the wrong way to say it), is that once you have booted from your phone, you can use the USB to connect to internet via the phone.

In some androids it possible to use other system, as ram only is not needed if you use the phone as a wifi hotspot.
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1504
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb 2013, 13:16    Post subject:  

Atle wrote:
Its been soon a year since last version of this excellent Puppy was released (5.2.8.005)... Now I wonder if there are anyone around with the idea of releasing a newer version like a 006. We are then close to the 007 version, that I feel could have a slight James Bond theme:-)

I think 5.2.8 has a long life as Precise might never overcome the problematic PAE issue...

I seem to remember that Lucid newer missed out on one single boot for as long as I can remember.

Anyhow... Anyone with ideas about a new version of Lucid?
I continue to feel somewhat responsible for maintaining Lucid Pup 528. It is my main non-development system. Although I intend to make some updates to lupu528, I have not seen that much needs to be done to it. Maybe I have not been paying attention.

Now that I seem to have completed integration of frisbee into the mainstream puppy, I can focus on creating a set of upgrade packages in a central place to simplify adding the upgrades to one of the lupu ISOs, to be then remastered into an upgraded ISO.. I do not care to start another download site for a new ISO-006, but can work with whomever could host it. Playdayz used the remasterpup function to build the ISOs. So, a new ISO would entail collecting the various fixed packages and remastering.

However we do it, the first step is to identify the upgrades that are desired and feasible. I suggest that anyone with recommendations add a posting here in which to accumulate items, rather than making separate posts for each idea. So, post an initial set, then edit it later with additions or changes.

Here is what I have in mind, for me to do:
    - Make a package to upgrade the original lupu528 infrastructure to match that of the lupuplus variants but without the added drivers, starting with the old "patch-8".
    - Replace the Frisbee beta version with the new frisbee-1.0.
    - Include at least a link to peebee's proprietary Broadcom driver and include the infrastructure mods to accommodate it -- or backport the final implementation from woof.
    - Collect any backportable fixes from woof/precise that apply to lupu.
Although I would like to provide a single package that fixes everything, the new upload limit of 250K makes that impractical; it will probably require several packages.

Please make recommendations for updates to lupu528 and I will endeavor to implement them. Who's on board with this effort?
Richard
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Mon 18 Feb 2013, 23:59    Post subject:  

I love the idea of gearing up the network abilities with those 90.25 KB of genius code of Gyro with the ShareInternet Pet

To be able to turn you PC into a router like that is just AWESOME...

Being able to share a connection like that I find very useful my self, but that said, it might just be me:-) I love to be able to share my internet with guests and friends and as the code is so small, it might be possible to include that into a improved version?

I volunteer to make a white paper on how to use it that can be included as a page in the help files on the Lucid.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 440
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2013, 13:05    Post subject:  

I think there are good resons to keep the 528 alive and running for some time yet. Among other things, it must be one of the easiest puppys to get up and running for a newbie. I have been using dpup 484s and 485s for a long time, which are based on Debian Lenny. Debian no longer has an open Lenny repository - it is outdated by now. I have been testing different puppys to find a replacement. The new Slacko 5.4 seem very promising, but still have a lot of problems, as do the new Precise and Debian Squeeze based puppys. So I have landed on the extremely good 528_005, a little remastering makes it almost perfect for me. I also tried the 525s with similar results. Not perfect, but very good! My PCs are old PII, PIII and P4 boxes.
Thank you for the very clear explanation above, mikeslr. It seem to me, that until some development work is done to make the backward compability of the building blocks better, some small, regular updates to the 528 will keep it alive for a long time. There must be other distros struggling with the same issues that the new kernel/libs are presenting, so my guess is that there are still produced new applications, made for the older kernels and glib, that may run just fine in a 'stable' puppy. It is a bit like the old Volvo 140 and 240 series cars; they ran almost unchanged for decades, only continuously refined in small details.

tallboy

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kevin bowers

Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 143

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2013, 22:34    Post subject:  

rerwin wrote:

Please make recommendations for updates to lupu528 and I will endeavor to implement them.
Richard

You've probably already thought of or done this, but Adobe Flash is now stable as far as Linux goes; Adobe will not release any new versions. Is it possible to include the final release in the distro, since nearly everyone will need it? Flash continues to dominate website animation, and the games that Facebook hosts are increasingly popular and are also Flash-based. My lady has had better luck playing them under LuPu than any other OS, including Windows 7 and 8 and Slacko. The usual problem is Flash crashing.

Just an observation: I've been following the LuPu and Slacko threads since their respective beginnings; Slacko just does not seem to gather nearly as much enthusiasm as LuPu does even now that LuPu has lost its leader. Wonder why? Rerwin, are you volunteering to take over Playdayz' post? That would certainly be a welcome development!
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Wed 20 Feb 2013, 23:53    Post subject:  

I think there is huge possibilities this will just happen.

I am all new to this, but have time to contribute.

What I would ask is how to organize it? Does one wish to have a website to have the files to work on as one goes?

In such case its just to make the wish list of this and I will do my best to come up with a website offering the services to streamline the project as close as possible to the spec given.

So this is about how to cooperate and user access etc.

Since one does not have access to the .pet repo of Lucid I would also wonder if there is anyone that is capable of hacking a bit on the QuickPet, so that new stuff can come there, and as released, new stuff appears in the now so dead "News" feature of QuickPet, so that the latest stuff can be there for everyone.

I can offer to make a webservice almost as good as the wishes stated and also host the Quick Pet News section. Hopefully also some new pets, but that depends a bit on the volume of users and what my host allows me to do.

I had given up the hope to see this Puppy come back to life, but from what ones sees here, there might be hope to raise to old pride...

For all one knows, maybe the legendary Playdayz show up swinging his magic wand:-) I can understand why he gave in, as it looked like close to full time work for some time.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 440
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 10:07    Post subject:  

One improvement that could be done without a single line of code, is to check if all the submited .pets in this thread could be included in the official repos. Also, many of the updated .pets here are not listed in http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pet_packages-lucid/.

My 2¢

tallboy

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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 11:34    Post subject:  

This has been something you will find me addressing earlier in this now endless thread. But I think in Puppy land its not just for anyone to deal with this repo.

For that reason its great with the QuickPet. That one is possible to edit and fit into a new reality where small and big packages that are buried here and there in this forum and elsewhere, can come out in broad daylight.

Just that would make a 006 version awesome. There are so many nice things that never got out into the repo and/or the Quickpet.

So yes.. its a great idea Tallboy. We just need to "hunt em down and round em up". These pets in the wild needs help...

SAVE THE LOST LUCID PET'S 2013




LET'S GIVE THEM A HOME AND A PROPER LIFE[size=0][/size]
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 14:47    Post subject:  

Just a suggestion for the future upgrade to quickpet.

I've been setting up Lucid on an old P-4 with 512 meg of ram to basically be a chromebook.

The latest version of chrome installs and runs great with only some changes to the .desktop and default browser file to stop the root warning and put the cache and user files where you want them. It would be very easy to write a script that downloaded the latest version and then installed it or maybe even made it into an sfs.
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 23:42    Post subject:  

Chrome is in the "browser chooser" and Quick pet. But probably not the very latest version.

If quickpet and changing that is a bit complex, its for sure not complex to let dillo autostart from the live CD, showing off the latest and new information?

That would be probably the most easy and "non tampering" solution.

Edit the file(s) in file:///usr/share/doc/index.html (thats where its located in Slacko...)
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5000
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 11:15    Post subject:  

rerwin wrote:

I would like to provide a single package that fixes everything, the new upload limit of 250K makes that impractical; it will probably require several packages.
Richard

I do not think this upload limit applies to developers of a Puppy version?
I think you can contact JohnMurga and if you make it known, that you are taking over developing improvements for Lucid Puppy, he will give you a higher download limit.

Thank you for your interest in keeping Lucid Puppy active!!!
I still support it for one big reason. It is the only Puppy version that tried to work out all the bugs and get to that 100% full support point.
Also, I look at some of the newer Puppy versions and a lot of the good features, of Lucid, are not there.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1289
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 15:14    Post subject:  

When I tried Puppy 5.2.8.005 on my latest PC with a widescreen monitor (default 1920x1080) it went all psychedelic. I thought I was stuck with using Slacko!

Then I got fed up with widescreen generally and found a 19" Dell (default 1280x1024). I found Lupu worked again out of the box!

So I guess there may need to be some support for wide screen monitors required. The second hand market for these Dell's must be limited!

Until there is a killer app or new hardware that demands a new pup then Lupu is the best of its type.

Barry and 01Micko are scratching their personal itches. I haven't caught their infection.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5000
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 15:57    Post subject:  

ICPUG wrote:
When I tried Puppy 5.2.8.005 on my latest PC with a widescreen monitor (default 1920x1080) it went all psychedelic. I thought I was stuck with using Slacko!

This is probably caused by the graphics driver being used. If you get the manufactures graphics driver, for your graphics hardware, it should be able to give you that resolution.
Specific info on your graphics hardware needed to give better help.

Also, that monitor should be able to handle other resolutions. Most monitors have an auto setup adjust button. I have seen a lot of problems solved by just pushing it.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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tater


Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 32
Location: Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Fri 22 Feb 2013, 21:34    Post subject:  

I've been using lupu for a couple years. It's been great. I've installed it on laptops and desktops. It's stable and reliable.

All of the newer pups (in my experience) have something or another that becomes a deal breaker for me.

I hope lupu 528 will continue on for a while longer as I haven't found any other OS's that work for me and other people that I've converted to puppy linux.

I wouldn't mind seeing implemented, if possible, the overlay mount and umount box on the desktop partition icons. That would be cool.

Peace!
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