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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
ArchPup - First Puppy with pacman for installing apps
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simargl
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PostPosted: Tue 15 Jan 2013, 17:56    Post_subject:  ArchPup - First Puppy with pacman for installing apps
Sub_title: version 13.2 - Planning Phase
 

Latest version: 12.12.2 http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=83064
--------------------------------------------------
Here I will add my To-do list, changes compared to stable version and other future plans related to ArchPup development:
29 Jan
Just to add some more information regarding /etc/rc.conf. Following line is new:
# LOCALIZATION
LOCALE="C"
That means changing system language requires only to change one line in one file, but off course only after
you enable desired locale in /etc/locale.gen. Now, that's simple and easy Cool
Second - important information: With this major version change creating new save file is required.
Here is my advice: First backup your /root folder to some location outside your save file, then rename save file
to archpup.2fs.bak (just in case Wink ), reboot and make new savefile. Then finally you can move original /root folder
back in its place. This way you settings will be saved and you can continue to use them in new version.

21 Jan
In attempt to centralize system configuration in one file like in good old Arch Linux Wink , here is
list of current variables inside /etc/rc.conf
X_AUTOLOGIN="yes"
AUTOMOUNT_VOLUMES="no"
SAVEFILE_DIALOG_FORCE="no"
DAEMONS="metalog alsa cups messagebus dhcpcd rc.pcmcia rsync Pwireless2_service"
MODULES="" Arrow Add modules you want to run on startup. After this change /etc/MODULESCONFIG is removed.
------------------
spacefm replaces thunar as default file manager Very Happy
It is much more customizable than thunar, has image preview, right click create and extract archive..
Problems with mounting are now fixed!
--------------------------
use latest kernel from 3.4 series
split and simplify build script

I was thinking what is the best way to distribute next version, so here is final decision for version 132, that will be based on
packages from 1st February 2013:
- First there will be archpup-132-alpha, iso with only archpup.sfs and adrv.sfs size around 80 Mb.
- After some period of testing and probably fixing Wink this alpha version, next iso will be archpup.sfs+adrv.sfs+archapps.sfs
and around 150 Mb size. I will no longer make this minimal 80 MB iso, because everyone can remove archapps.sfs and still
OS would be functional.
- In archapps will be included pacmanxg4, but not yaourt. Instead for managing packages from AUR there will be packer in
another sfs - archdev. Reason is simple, you need development sfs to compile packages from AUR, so packer is moved to
that module.
- Evince will be removed, and as new pdf viewer there will be qpdfview
- Under system menu new entry is added "Update package databases", easier for beginners no need for manual pacman -Sy.
----------------------------------------------------

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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 795
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue 15 Jan 2013, 18:49    Post_subject:  

You should add that a more stable and well-compiled kernel.
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Tue 15 Jan 2013, 19:47    Post_subject:  

those plans for the new ArchPup are sounding GREAT!!

with PACMAN the complete package manager? even 'better' than apt-get?? this is AMAZING!! now those hard to install apps that puppy has so much trouble with, will be a BREEZE. easily install KDE, Mate, Unity, Compiz etc...just by typing the command 'pacman -S mate'....absolutely amazing.

i think the ydrv idea and keeping the wm.sfs separate is also a good idea.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1603

PostPosted: Tue 15 Jan 2013, 23:57    Post_subject:  

simargl,
good start.

Would you mind clarifying your goals on:
kernel,
aufs-utils,
udev,
Wireless connectivity,
Arch version (12.12 again?)
Maximum size of the iso
Possibility of 3 SFSs (base - X drivers/video libs, DM, WM - Apps).
The answers might avoid useless discussions and save us some time.

Regarding Qt devel files in apps/adrv SFS, is it an sfs-building issue or a functionality issue that can not be moved to archdev?

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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 03:51    Post_subject:  

bark_bark_bark:
Could you explain what you mean with 'more stable' 'well-compiled kernel'. This kernel ( 3.6.8 ) for me
is perfectly stable, I think you meant older kernel that better supports your hardware. And , for compiling
kernel there are rules - list of commands that everyone is following, I did not add some crazy patch that would
make it unstable, so what is well-compiled kernel and why is this bad-compiled kernel?

mavrothal:
Thanks, this topic is just for (mostly useless Laughing ) talk. I'm not against adding 3 SFSs but this is important problem -
Qt or any devel files from adrv sfs must stay there, otherwise if someone replaces adrv, gcc would still see qt as
installed, and pacman -S qt would refuse to overwrite those files.
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2444
Location: near here

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 06:14    Post_subject:  

Great to hear the next version is being developed. Cool Is it going to be possible to add Puppy style apps, for example startmount or pburn. Most of them just need gtkdialog and a few scripts. It would also be good to improve the USB drive support.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1603

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 06:29    Post_subject:  

simargl wrote:
I'm not against adding 3 SFSs but this is important problem -
Qt or any devel files from adrv sfs must stay there, otherwise if someone replaces adrv, gcc would still see qt as
installed, and pacman -S qt would refuse to overwrite those files.


I guess this is one of the Arch/pacman limitations. Not distinct devel packages (as fedora/debian have).
May not be perfect after all Razz

I guess the major problem devel-package-size wise is Qt and X.
X is OK but for Qt one solution is to drop Qt apps.
If on the other hand you consider Qt apps "mandatory" then you could move Qt with X and DM/WM to adrv and put their devel files in archdev.
Then use ydrv as an apps sfs. Wink
This would keep the main iso size reasonable and allow compiling without confusing pacman or have missing level libs.

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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 07:12    Post_subject:  

mavrothal
I forgot to answer about kernel version for next release. First I thought to use latest kernel from
3.7 series or eventually 3.6.11. But at http://www.kernel.org/ 3.6.11 is labeled as end of
life (EOL), so maybe I will use 3.4.25 or latest from that series, it was updated 2013-01-1.
I made rc.conf with this content
Code:
X_AUTOLOGIN="yes"
SAVEFILE_DIALOG_FORCE="yes"
It's pretty obvious what will these variables do.

darkcity
startmount http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=50845 is program that
automount drives on every boot, and that gave me idea to maybe add option in rc.conf
Code:
AUTOMOUNT_ALL_VOLUMES
.
It would be set to no by default, change it to yes and every partition will be mounted
automatically on next reboot.

Also I'm thinking to replace thunar + pup-volume-monitor with spacefm. If you want to test spacefm
is in Arch repo : install with pacman -S spacefm.
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cinclus_cinclus

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 07:36    Post_subject:  

simargl wrote:
mavrothal
I forgot to answer about kernel version for next release. First I thought to use latest kernel from
3.7 series or eventually 3.6.11. But at http://www.kernel.org/ 3.6.11 is labeled as end of
life (EOL), so maybe I will use 3.4.25 or latest from that series, it was updated 2013-01-1.

I would highly appreciate a kernel 3.4.25. That would solve my hardware-incompatibilitiy-problems with kernels > 3.5 / xserver-xorg-video-intel driver / G45 (Eaglelake G+) chipset. Please, see my previous posts in the other ARCHPUP-threads.
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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 795
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 08:22    Post_subject:  

simargl wrote:
bark_bark_bark:
Could you explain what you mean with 'more stable' 'well-compiled kernel'. This kernel ( 3.6.8 ) for me
is perfectly stable, I think you meant older kernel that better supports your hardware. And , for compiling
kernel there are rules - list of commands that everyone is following, I did not add some crazy patch that would
make it unstable, so what is well-compiled kernel and why is this bad-compiled kernel?


Well someone pointed out that the 3.6.8 kernel you had was a bit buggy and problemetic. The one problem I only had was the broadcom device would never work no matter what (that was a kernel related problem). Also when adding modules, it rejects the new modules (also a sign of a bad kernel).

EDIT: I would keep the kernel version used by ArchLinux (to keep things consistent and Arch compatible). I also would just use arch's kernel as it has SquashFS support (and you won't have to worry about compile errors as well has device compatibility problems).

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cinclus_cinclus

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 09:36    Post_subject:  

bark_bark_bark wrote:
I would keep the kernel version used by ArchLinux (to keep things consistent and Arch compatible). I also would just use arch's kernel as it has SquashFS support (and you won't have to worry about compile errors as well has device compatibility problems).

Standard-Arch-kernel has no aufs-support. You would have to use an aufs-supporting kernel from AUR,
say a liquorix-kernel:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-lqx/?comments=all

http://liquorix.net/sources/

or an older kernel (3.4.xy) of calimero:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/linux-aufs_friendly/
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 10:07    Post_subject:  

Here's the media player nightingale (fork of the media player songbird) running on ArchPup:


I simply compiled it from the AUR which is easily accomplished using ArchPup. Still trying to decide if i like it more than clementine, but here it is if anyone wants to check it out:

Download:
nightingale-git-20130116-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz

easily install the package using:
Code:
pacman -U /path/to/nightingale-git-20130116-1-i686.pkg.tar.xz


offtopic kinda, but indirectly still applies:
Take a look at this website it's like one i've never seen before. It's a massive list, so massive you could get lost, of linux users, favorite apps. this bad boy has been bookmarked by me.

http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/best-free-software-linux.htm?page=0%2C0

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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 795
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 10:22    Post_subject:  

cinclus_cinclus wrote:
bark_bark_bark wrote:
I would keep the kernel version used by ArchLinux (to keep things consistent and Arch compatible). I also would just use arch's kernel as it has SquashFS support (and you won't have to worry about compile errors as well has device compatibility problems).

Standard-Arch-kernel has no aufs-support.


Aufs is a joke to me. Plus the SFS files used by puppy aren't Aufs, they're SquashFS 4.x format (Puppy 3/4 used v3).

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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 11:13    Post_subject:  

cinclus_cinclus wrote:
I would highly appreciate a kernel 3.4.25. That would solve my hardware-incompatibilitiy-problems with kernels > 3.5 / xserver-xorg-video-intel driver / G45 (Eaglelake G+) chipset. Please, see my previous posts in the other ARCHPUP-threads.

You are probably right so I will use latest kernel from 3.4 series. That will support your hardware and still is new
enough to not make problem with arch packages, which are always latest possible Cool. And to report here my
little test with spacefm:
mounting cd-rom, dvd, and usb Surprised fat-32 formatted all works
but Exclamation mounting internal hard disk drive (ntfs or ext4), failed with something like 'specify partition type error'
In devices list in spacefm are shown mount loop files, I couldn't disable that.
Interesting is that usb devices are handled properly with spacefm but they don't show at all in thunar without restarting pup-volume-monitor.
If I am able to fix problems with mounting internal disk and hiding loop devices, this could easily replace thunar and pup-volume-monitor.
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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 795
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 11:18    Post_subject:  

simargl wrote:
cinclus_cinclus wrote:
I would highly appreciate a kernel 3.4.25. That would solve my hardware-incompatibilitiy-problems with kernels > 3.5 / xserver-xorg-video-intel driver / G45 (Eaglelake G+) chipset. Please, see my previous posts in the other ARCHPUP-threads.

You are probably right so I will use latest kernel from 3.4 series. That will support your hardware and still is new
enough to not make problem with arch packages, which are always latest possible Cool. And to report here my
little test with spacefm:
mounting cd-rom, dvd, and usb Surprised fat-32 formatted all works
but Exclamation mounting internal hard disk drive (ntfs or ext4), failed with something like 'specify partition type error'
In devices list in spacefm are shown mount loop files, I couldn't disable that.
Interesting is that usb devices are handled properly with spacefm but they don't show at all in thunar without restarting pup-volume-monitor.
If I am able to fix problems with mounting internal disk and hiding loop devices, this could easily replace thunar and pup-volume-monitor.


Just don't break the kernel like you did with the 3.6.8 kernel.

EDIT: If you're planning on using the drivers from arch linux be careful when using different kernel versions then what the driver intended to use.

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