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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
ArchPup 12.12.2
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 17:21    Post_subject:  

Scooby, i understand that. I already know this thing is going to have forks and remasters all over the place. Which is why we should do the 'Ubuntu to this Debian', before someone else does.

the idea is to have two sfs files on the iso. so it will boot to a gui Desktop.

But there are users who like to switch a lot, so if one decides they want a different Desktop Environment, they can delete 'one' of the sfs files, the gui one, and load a different one.

There are also users who don't want a desktop environment at all, and only want to use ncurses. For those users they could delete the one gui sfs file, and only use the main sfs which loads to a tty prompt.

For users who don't like something specific in the default desktop environment (maybe they like xfce, but don't like xfce-terminal) they could make their own, mix and matched desktop environment sfs, and load it to the main.sfs.

This gives the user full control, regardless of what type of user it is.

my advice is not to have the iso, boot to a tty prompt. only the Bare one. not the main Signature one.

and ideas come from somewhere, they're either accepted or rejected. and i'm hoping this one is accepted by simargl. files cannot be deleted out of an sfs, and this is a layout that would solve that.

you're a user who doesn't mind having apps in your linux that you may never use. if it comes with mplayer, and you prefer vlc, you'll hide or ignore the mplayer. A lot of ppl want a way to totally remove the mplayer.
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Scooby

Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 322

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 00:59    Post_subject:  

stifiling wrote:

you're a user who doesn't mind having apps in your linux that you may never use. if it comes with mplayer, and you prefer vlc, you'll hide or ignore the mplayer. A lot of ppl want a way to totally remove the mplayer.


nah I would mind if ISO was growing to 400-500mb.

But for 50mb when you got 6 gig ram and 500 gig hdd,
nah to much effort, to little gain to worry about it.

Do you intend this xfce sfs to be loaded easily from tty or
do you have to start hacking in system files to get it started?

stifiling wrote:

you're a user who doesn't mind having apps in your linux that you may never use. if it comes with mplayer, and you prefer vlc, you'll hide or ignore the mplayer. A lot of ppl want a way to totally remove the mplayer.


I must confess,I don't get this at all. If I want to play video and
mplayer is installed and does the job. Then why bother?

One filemanager over another. Their 90 % the same anyway

Others are like this but it just shoots past me.

Yeah, takes a little time to find your way in new menus but so does reinstall.
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 01:40    Post_subject:  

the XFCE.iso WILL boot to the XFCE Desktop Environment.

the XFCE.iso WILL NOT boot to a tty prompt.

you seem like you're trying to be a lil argumentative and the argument is weak.

Some users don't mind:
"Ahh, who cares, i have a nice computer. This distro came with Boxee but i use XBMC, i'll just keep them both."

Some users do mind:
"Hey?? I have a nice computer too. This distro came with Boxee but i use XBMC, how do I get this Boxee the hell off of here?"
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ciento

Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 02:42    Post_subject:  

This is the output when booting from cd or usb:

"Loading drivers needed to access disk drives
searching for archpup files
(white dots appear, then red dots)
archpup-12.12.sfs not found
Dropping out to initial-ramdisk console"
--------------------------------------------------------
archpup-12.12.sfs is in
/
/home/
/media/xp
on the cd
on the usbstick.
Confused
Is there a command to use at that point?
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1733

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 03:48    Post_subject:  

wrong post
_________________
Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy

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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 03:59    Post_subject:  

For new release sakura terminal will replace rxvt-unicode, that saves 100KB and adds right click option for copy/paste. Also I patched sakura to disable close dialog question "Are you sure you want to quit?" - yes I am sure.

ciento: Yesterday I made frugal installation on usb to test patch from mavrothal, it worked without problems. So, my assumption is that in bootloader's menu.lst, you have psubdir which excludes all other folders from search.

stifiling: You don't have to, but I would suggest you to build version with xfce using my package manager, to be consistent with everything else. If you want to make yourself familiar with this tool download two repositories:
Code:
hg clone https://bitbucket.org/simargl/spkg
hg clone https://bitbucket.org/simargl/def-scripts

install with sh install. Some interesting commands:
Code:
spkg report
spkg info glib2
spkg repack gtk2

It has a lot of options, see list of them with spkg -h, recently I added function for converting to pet package. Archapps and archdev are built with simple spkg makesfsx (x adds xz compression), in folder with compiled and converted spkg packages.

mavrothal: Applied. Thanks again Razz
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 05:39    Post_subject:  

ok i'll learn the tool. but as far as using a secondary adrv.sfs...i'm not able to make it load correctly. i can get it to mount in pup_a, but that's all it is is mounted at that location. it's not usable in the system.

so i can work on the xfce.iso, all inside of the main.sfs. putting it in a separate adrv.sfs though, i'm at a stand still from that angle.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1733

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 05:53    Post_subject:  

stifiling wrote:
ok i'll learn the tool. but as far as using a secondary adrv.sfs...i'm not able to make it load correctly. i can get it to mount in pup_a, but that's all it is is mounted at that location. it's not usable in the system.

so i can work on the xfce.iso, all inside of the main.sfs. putting it in a separate adrv.sfs though, i'm at a stand still from that angle.


For this you'll need to modify the initrd/init (and maybe rc.sysinit).
I could take a shut at it (if elroy does not do it first Wink ) assuming that simargl is willing to go that way. ie autoload archapps.sfs if present in the directory where initrd.gz/vnlinuz/archpup-XYZ.sfs reside.

_________________
Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 06:01    Post_subject:  

yea u guys mighta went in a notch too deep for me. i think mavrothal is better suited for the assignment. imma kick back and watch for a while and await other areas i could probably contribute.

i still think main.sfs to tty and adrv.sfs to gui is the best way. just had to throw that in there one more time really quick.
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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 06:18    Post_subject:  

Here's one interesting addition to archdev sfs caled musl http://www.musl-libc.org/, I compiled latest version from git, as test compiled static zlib with musl-gcc and it is 30 kb smaller than default from Arch. This seems very interesting for static compiling.

stifiling I thought you will make additional sfs that contains xfce and other programs, and after combine that sfs with archpup-12.12.sfs. But, if you want separate file and automatic sfs load (adrv.sfs), it is also good idea.

mavrothal will it work if we add adrv.sfs, to EXTRASFSLIST in /etc/rc.d/BOOTCONFIG, looks like sfs_load writes sfs list there.

EDIT: @stifiling: mavrothal understand how Puppy linux works better than me, and he helps in more important areas. I still think you would be the best for adding xfce+apps sfs, and making newbie friendly iso image. I remember your screenshots from different desktops Wink, so you like to experiment, off course choice is yours.

Edited_time_total
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 06:25    Post_subject:  

simargl wrote:
stifiling I thought you will make additional sfs that contains xfce and other programs, and after combine that sfs with archpup-12.12.sfs. But, if you want separate file and automatic sfs load (adrv.sfs), it is also good idea.


i could have done it that way, but i think the adrv is more elegant. and yes, to get that adrv to load, the init script in initrd.gz has to be edited. i was unsuccessful at making it work.

i think the adrv is more elegant because you could easily switch off from the adrv with xfce, to the adrv with kde.

no huss no fuss, easily switch desktop environments. so easy a kindergartner with crayons and pictures could do it.
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 06:42    Post_subject:  

ok i'll do one now and submit you the link. but the adrv is, 'What's happening!!'
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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 07:25    Post_subject:  

What's important with adrv or better call it apdrive, is if that sfs module will be able to overwrite files in archpup-12.12.sfs.
If you add xfce desktop then /etc/profile needs to be overwritten in order to replace
Quote:
export WINDOW_MANAGER="openbox"

with:
Quote:
export WINDOW_MANAGER="xfce4-session"

EDIT: To continue using archapps-12.12.sfs, it's best to automatically load additional file
that contains archapps-*.sfs, so it will support newer version and also different names like archapps-xfce.sfs
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 08:44    Post_subject:  

so u're saying i should leave the archapps.sfs separate or should i continue with having them squashed into the main.sfs?

i'm thinking u're saying to leave it separate which sound idea to me as well, for the exact same reason, updated apps. the smplayer that's included is out of date....youtube doesn't work with it.
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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 08:55    Post_subject:  

stifiling wrote:
so u're saying i should leave the archapps.sfs separate or should i continue with having them squashed into the main.sfs?

i'm thinking u're saying to leave it separate which sound idea to me as well, for the exact same reason, updated apps. the smplayer that's included is out of date....youtube doesn't work with it.

Yes it will be separate, but only if it's possible to overwrite files from main sfs, with those from archapps.sfs
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