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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
ArchPup 12.12.2
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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ciento

Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 05:34    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
alright, now that wireless and pup-volume-monitor has been figured out...i'm thinking you should add the fixes to the main iso and edit the first post with big red letters, "WIRELESS NOW WORKING!!!"

and also thanks for adding wvdial in 12.12.1, will download
tonight! 3G and dialup using wvdial, means more connected people,
and then more long-term users as the word spreads Smile !
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 05:53    Post subject:  

ciento wrote:
and also thanks for adding wvdial in 12.12.1, will download
tonight! 3G and dialup using wvdial, means more connected people,
and then more long-term users as the word spreads Smile !


well the credit for adding wvdial goes to simargl. i am though...trying to get more of us 'connected'
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simargl
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PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 05:55    Post subject:  

Sourceforge currently shows that iso size is 86.1 mb, but real size is 82.1 mb, I don't know why they give false information. If you want me to add linux-firmware (4mb) in main iso, then we must remove something, not 4mb but whole 6mb to make iso under 80mb again. Plan is: first I will move libraries mentioned here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=675849#675849 to archdev sfs; then completely remove pacmanxg - that program is good, but anyone can install it later; remove yaourt with 3 dependencies. Packer will return but will be in archdev, it is logical because you anyway need archdev to compile. If you want to help, see if you can find some unnecessary stuff inside /initrd/pup_ro2 - this command might help (shows 20 largest files in folder):
Code:
du -sh * | grep M | sort -n -r | head -n 20

Goal is to remove 6MB, current state: moved libs to archdev -600KB, pacmanxg and yourt - 1.6MB.
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dennis-slacko531


Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 103
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 06:10    Post subject: PacmanXG4 worked where plain terminal pacman didn't...  

This may be minor, but I just installed Gimp using the terminal "pacman -S gimp" -- well, that increased my personal save file from 90MB to about 260MB, but Gimp didn't appear in the Graphics Menu. So, I used PacmanXG4 to reinstall Gimp and it appeared in the menu then, plus my personal save file increased about 7MB (menu entry?). Who knows, but this is pretty cool...!!
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 06:12    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
Sourceforge currently shows that iso size is 86.1 mb, but real size is 82.1 mb, I don't know why they give false information. If you want me to add linux-firmware (4mb) in main iso, then we must remove something, not 4mb but whole 6mb to make iso under 80mb again. Plan is: first I will move libraries mentioned here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=675849#675849 to archdev sfs; then completely remove pacmanxg - that program is good, but anyone can install it later; remove yaourt with 3 dependencies. Packer will return but will be in archdev, it is logical because you anyway need archdev to compile. If you want to help, see if you can find some unnecessary stuff inside /initrd/pup_ro2 - this command might help (shows 20 largest files in folder):
Code:
du -sh * | grep M | sort -n -r | head -n 20

Goal is to remove 6MB, current state: moved libs to archdev -600KB, pacmanxg and yourt - 1.6MB.


well when u have to pick between an arm and a leg....i think having the leg is more beneficial. so rather than stripping the system out to that extent.....it's probably better overall to leave the linux-firmware as an sfs file.
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simargl
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PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 06:25    Post subject:  

dennis-slacko531: If some applications don't appear in menu you could try to remove /root/.cache/menus folder, that will force menu to recreate. For installing larger applications maybe it's better to use makesfs script, that way space in savefile will not be used.

Anyone tested Pwireless, I can't add Frisbee because it's not using system dhcpcd, wpa_supplicant..., and needs older system libraries like readline.so.5 (included is readline.so.6).
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1459
Location: Malvern, Worcs, UK

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 06:47    Post subject: Pwireless2 and b43  

simargl wrote:
Anyone tested Pwireless, I can't add Frisbee because it's not using system dhcpcd, wpa_supplicant..., and needs older system libraries like readline.so.5 (included is readline.so.6).


Hi simargl

Pwireless2 will work ONLY if you add Xdialog & yaf-splash (=gtkdialog-splash) as http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=83064&start=157

Pwireless2 will work with b43 wifi but ONLY if you add the b43 firmware to /lib/firmware AND you load the b43 driver by editing /etc/rc.d/MODULESCONFIG to put b43 into addlist with necessary spaces.

Cheers
peebee
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simargl
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PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 07:01    Post subject:  

yaf-splash should not be mandatory, it only shows notifications, but ok will add Xdialog, it's 30kb.
Now I will try to recompile cups, same version 1.6.1, but without dependencies krb -1.5 mb and avahi -500kb. This folder /usr/share/i18n compressed is 3mb, something could be removed from there, .. but what...
EDIT: it's finished - cups package size is 6.7mb, converted was 6.9mb, plus I removed 5 dependencies of that old cups package, combined size 2.1mb.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1684

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 08:11    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
Sourceforge currently shows that iso size is 86.1 mb, but real size is 82.1 mb, I don't know why they give false information. If you want me to add linux-firmware (4mb) in main iso, then we must remove something, not 4mb but whole 6mb to make iso under 80mb again.


Is the 80MB limit imposed by someone (sourceforge?) or is just a number that you are aiming for so will be an "80MB OS"?
If it is so will load in RAM, the ISO size limit is half of the available RAM. So 128MB for a 256MB machine.

Making the final decision you may want to consider functionality.
If the idea is that the base can be just used to build the system of your preference through pacman, then the wider possible hardware compatibility should be in the base. ie, video, audio, network, printing and peripherals drivers. So the machine will be adequately functional to build your system by just downloading packages.
If you can not make you hardware going OOTB, you just do not bother any further, particularly with a bare bones OS.

In any case keep in mind that these "build it yourself" pupplets may have a considerably more limited audience/user base. The Saluki/Carolina/lina-lite developers may provide some info. Also Tinycore vs Puppy is an equivalent similar comparison.

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simargl
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PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 08:44    Post subject:  

My idea is, as written is first post, to give full control to the end user - if someone want to install his own specific programs then he would just download main iso, and if he thinks that is too hard or lacks experience he will also download archapps sfs, then connect to the internet and start to explore. How to use pacman is explained in documentation with examples, everyone can make use of it. I first installed Arch Linux using net-install cd image. When installation finished I had OS without any application, not even graphical server, so had to use console browser called links to search on archwiki for informations, and finally got to work, after some 3 hours. That is what I would call bare bones OS, not ArchPup. And 80MB limit was invented today to add some "challenge to this game".
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 09:08    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
My idea is, as written is first post, to give full control to the end user - if someone want to install his own specific programs then he would just download main iso, and if he thinks that is too hard or lacks experience he will also download archapps sfs, then connect to the internet and start to explore. How to use pacman is explained in documentation with examples, everyone can make use of it. I first installed Arch Linux using net-install cd image. When installation finished I had OS without any application, not even graphical server, so had to use console browser called links to search on archwiki for informations, and finally got to work, after some 3 hours. That is what I would call bare bones OS, not ArchPup. And 80MB limit was invented today to add some "challenge to this game".


that's sounds good. but if that's the case, why not add openbox, tint2, urxvt, and the other gui apps to openapps.sfs, and just let the main.sfs boot to a tty prompt.

i think that would be an excellent way of doing it. and have some more premade .sfs's for the users to download. the light one with openbox, tint2, etc. the medium with apps like xfce, xfce-terminal, etc. and a big one with like kde or something.

i think a layout like that would b unmatched. and it would appeal to super uber geeks, intermediates, and beginners. and would also be the best distro for new computers, or old ones.

it would also free up that 4mb, to put the linux-firmware in the main.sfs.
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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1459
Location: Malvern, Worcs, UK

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 09:28    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
yaf-splash should not be mandatory, it only shows notifications,


Notifications are very useful when connecting by wifi as they show the progress of the connection - if yaf-splash is a link to gtkdialog-splash in normal puppies cannot it be included as a link to the arch equivalent???

Thanks
PeeBee

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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 09:49    Post subject:  

@stifiling
I would like something like that. My idea would be to include you those extra puppy apps that make up for not having a full Desktop Environment (but usually only require gtkdialog) in an SFS. People going for KDE/Gnome would have less need for this.

---
I've tested pns-tool in 12.12 and it works very well. Is there a way to make it save the choices made?

---
I've tested Mavrothal's Frisbee package in 12.12 and it kinda works. But I need to create the file /usr/local/Frisbee/interface manually, see my post here for more details-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=676071#676071

Also, how does trad Puppy know to modprobe b43 itself?

---
I like the way trad Puppy has default-app links, maybe these could be added to archpup,

for example, instead of tint2c having

launcher_item_app = /usr/applications/share/firefox.desktop
launcher_item_app = /usr/applications/share/chrome.desktop

etc..

just use-
launcher_item_app = /root/.defaultapps/default-browser

then change where /root/.defaultapps/default-browser points to.

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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1459
Location: Malvern, Worcs, UK

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 09:58    Post subject:  

darkcity wrote:
I've tested Mavrothal's Frisbee package in 12.12 and it kinda works. But I need to create the file /usr/local/Frisbee/interface manually, see my post here for more details-
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=676071#676071

Also, how does trad Puppy know to modprobe b43 itself?


Hi darkcity

To create the /interface file, wlan0 must have been created prior to the Frisbee startup code (in init.d??) being run - that's why the wifi driver needs to be loaded earlier in the boot sequence - .start is too late - which can be achieved by editing the addlist in /etc/rc.d/MODULESCONFIG

I think there must be lots of module loading stuff missing from archpup that has been worked on for many years in trad puppies - rerwin is the current guru who knows most about this side of things.

Cheers
PeeBee

Last edited by peebee on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:04; edited 1 time in total
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ciento

Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:03    Post subject:  

12.12-1 sends me to a #prompt, saying it can't find the 12-12.sfs.

MD5 matches, verified the data when burning a cd, used unetbootin,
other live media are booting fine, even copied the .sfs to the root
of each partition. Is there a mystery command to run at the prompt?

ls shows bin, sbin and the other usual suspects.

The previous version boots to a nice butterfly.
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