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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
mpdPup - Simplified MPD Music Server/Jukebox - v0.9.3
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Dynobot

Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jan 2013, 15:43    Post subject:  

jrling wrote:

I had arrived at the same conclusion.

Having said that, there are one or two of his suggestions that I might try. For instance I run mpdPup headless and no networking for music, so the mouse polling and TCP 'turning off' ones might have some merit. Worth a try anyhow.

Do you credit his ehci suggestions as being worthy?

My Tranquil PC T2E has four USB ports on the rear panel (I have disabled the onboard USB header in the BIOS) and I only use one for my WaveIO USB/S/PDIF converter. So I wondered if I could turn off all but one USB port in Linux?

Finally, you made a sweeping statement (!) - and even though some of the kernel tweaking can be done with proper numbers MPDPup is already at optimal Could I gently question that? I am not suggesting that you are wrong, but I suspect that Puppy Linux kernel on which mpdPup is based is certainly not aimed at audiophiles and unless those settings have been modified before mpdPup release, they might not be optimal. But of course with all the variables of individual hardware set-ups, there is probably no such thing as optimal.

Regards


Hi jrling,

Yes I realized afterwards that the optimal statement was general and not exactly true. I did play with some of the kernel numbers with correct values and found that the stock values sounds best. Hence the statement....but what is best for me might not be for another.

As far as the TCP ....are you suggesting turning off network capabilities? If so then you will not be able to get back into the OS to make any further changes.

With another distro of Linux I used a program called Tree to help me unbind hardware from the OS. After a lot of work I actually did not hear much of a benefit.

What I did hear a nice benefit from is setting affinity for the MPD to run in a CPU by itself.

Also even though the OS does not use swapping, there is a value in the swappiness setting of 60. Poking around the OS I found that even though its pretty light weight it still has some junk inside it, like sound files for sound effects and modules that might be loaded for printing etc.
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jrling

Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jan 2013, 16:03    Post subject:  

Dynobot wrote:
jrling wrote:

I had arrived at the same conclusion.

Having said that, there are one or two of his suggestions that I might try. For instance I run mpdPup headless and no networking for music, so the mouse polling and TCP 'turning off' ones might have some merit. Worth a try anyhow.

Do you credit his ehci suggestions as being worthy?

My Tranquil PC T2E has four USB ports on the rear panel (I have disabled the onboard USB header in the BIOS) and I only use one for my WaveIO USB/S/PDIF converter. So I wondered if I could turn off all but one USB port in Linux?

Finally, you made a sweeping statement (!) - and even though some of the kernel tweaking can be done with proper numbers MPDPup is already at optimal Could I gently question that? I am not suggesting that you are wrong, but I suspect that Puppy Linux kernel on which mpdPup is based is certainly not aimed at audiophiles and unless those settings have been modified before mpdPup release, they might not be optimal. But of course with all the variables of individual hardware set-ups, there is probably no such thing as optimal.

Regards


Hi jrling,

Yes I realized afterwards that the optimal statement was general and not exactly true. I did play with some of the kernel numbers with correct values and found that the stock values sounds best. Hence the statement....but what is best for me might not be for another.

Interesting and helpful.


As far as the TCP ....are you suggesting turning off network capabilities? If so then you will not be able to get back into the OS to make any further changes.

Good point. I have been influenced by 'Tony's Player' and John Swenson on AA in assuming networking running whilst playing music is a 'bad thing'! What would be good, but not practical I suspect, is the sort of CMP/CPLAY approach of turning off virtually every process before starting to play and waking them up again on finishing. Do you think that approach is worth thinking about for mpdPup?

With another distro of Linux I used a program called Tree to help me unbind hardware from the OS. After a lot of work I actually did not hear much of a benefit.

You might have saved me a lot of time and heartache

What I did hear a nice benefit from is setting affinity for the MPD to run in a CPU by itself.

I am looking forward to ldolse implementing those packages for us to be able to do that

Also even though the OS does not use swapping, there is a value in the swappiness setting of 60. Poking around the OS I found that even though its pretty light weight it still has some junk inside it, like sound files for sound effects and modules that might be loaded for printing etc.

If I knew more about what I was doing, I would be rooting out those processes that are 'unnecessary' in my dedicated approach (which of course will not suit everyone). Any pointers to their deletion much appreciated


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ldolse

Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jan 2013, 22:08    Post subject:  

The ehci stuff is interesting to me because most people are using USB DACs with Linux, but the same settings may be radically different for a use case like jrling with USB attached storage.

The other kernel parameters are of interest, but I agree with Dynobot that there needs to be some method to the madness around the choice of defaults, and if I add a tweak to mpdPup's UI I'd like to be able to explain to a user the theory as to why it might affect the sound. As the only deep dive discussions I've seen on the settings relate to Oracle/DB2 I'm inclined to leave the defaults for now.

Regarding swappiness, I'm not sure I understand how it could impact the sound at all because it just affects when Linux decides to use the swap file, without a swap file I don't see how it would apply. I do think some of those /proc/sys/vm/dirty numbers may apply in the way you're thinking, since even though the file system is in RAM system memory is separate from filesystem memory and those figures may affect data being swapped between two different memory locations.

Regarding cruft that's still in the iso, as long as the file isn't doing something to actively change the system configuration I don't see how they can affect the sound - it just uses a bit of extra RAM. The sound sample files take up a bit of space, but I think they're fun, and I don't see how they can affect the system performance. Other cruft like printer drivers, etc should all be disabled already, affecting memory a bit but they shouldn't affect performance. I cherry pick more things for removal each release, but it's getting harder to find broad categories of files which make much of a difference in terms of reward vs. effort - please feel free to list out specific areas that are ripe for removal.
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bonalux

Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jan 2013, 00:41    Post subject: Problem with alsamixer  

Hi Idolse and all, i need some help again I've installed mpdpup on the Alix board, all went well and configured the wizard with no problem, but when trying to unmute my waveio, the unmute command seems to not working and if i try to open alsamixer i'll get the message "cannot open mixer: No such file or directory", have you got a clue? Installed a fresh copy of mpdpup 0.9.3a.

Thank you very much.
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ldolse

Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jan 2013, 10:07    Post subject:  

Hi Bonalux, I still haven't released a proper fix for that, my last attempt was a failure, and while I've taken a new approach that hasn't been wrapped up into a new release. For now you just need to unmute it manually by typing 'alsamixer -c 1' (replace 1 with the number for your card). Then unmute by selecting the channel and hitting 'm'. Escape to exit, save the config by typing 'alsactl -f /etc/asound.state store'. Then reboot from the command line to make it stick.
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bonalux

Joined: 20 Jun 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jan 2013, 11:13    Post subject:  

Always very prompt reply, thank you. I was asking because with the previous pc i've never faced this problem, typing alsamixer was enough to launch the mixer and then unmute all.
Regarding the fix, it's really not a problem because it's a one time thing to do and then it works fine and it's only related to waveio so it's a hardware/firmware problem of it, for me it's ok just as it is Wink

Best Regards.
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jrling

Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 15:09    Post subject: Renice script file  

Over on AudioAsylum Dynobot recommended some simple changes to mpdPup as follows:
========================
I used WinSCP and placed a script inside the /root/my-applications/bin directory called [anything you want].sh

#!/bin/bash
renice -10 3
renice -10 9
renice -10 13
renice -10 16

Add the path to your script inside the rc.local file located in
/root/.etc/rc.d/rc.local

My path is /root/my-applications/bin/mpdstart.sh

I made sure to open up permissions to the my-app..., bin, and the script with

sudo chmod -R 755 my-applications
================================

I have now implemented them and can report a useful increase in SQ. More analogue. Well worth a go.
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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 802
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 15:10    Post subject:  

what kernel does this have?
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linuxbear

Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 15:31    Post subject:  

This is what I have been playing with recently and I have an old laptop I could install to. I am curious if anyone has tried serving audio (specifically FLAC or ogg) to an Android? How well does this work and are larger files like classical music handled well over WiFI?
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Dynobot

Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 18:10    Post subject:  

Is it possible to update MPD to the latest version of MPD-0.17.3.

The version installed is 0.16.8

Also is there any way to update the version manually?
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jrling

Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 18:24    Post subject:
Subject description: MPD 17
 

Hi Dynobot

mpdPup 0.9.3 'mpdwizard' has the option to choose MPD 16 or 17.
I run 17 and I think it is noticeably better.
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Dynobot

Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 18:50    Post subject:
Subject description: MPD 17
 

jrling wrote:
Hi Dynobot

mpdPup 0.9.3 'mpdwizard' has the option to choose MPD 16 or 17.
I run 17 and I think it is noticeably better.


Got it...thanks!
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ldolse

Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 366

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jan 2013, 21:15    Post subject:  

I'll probably make 0.17 the default in the next release - I initially experienced some hiccups with it, but I'm now thinking these are related to my network and have nothing to do with MPD.

Regarding renice, while I understand what the command is supposed to do in general, I don't really understand these specific examples. While I understand -10 is the nice value, what are 3, 9, 13, and 16? I can't reconcile this use case with any of the documentation on renice. It seems to me a renice script would need to grep through the process list or cat some PID files to determine which processes to renice.

@bark_bark_bark - the kernel is 2.6.39-4 with the BFS Scheduler

@linuxbear - I don't think you can really stream uncompressed audio to an Android device. MPD can output an OGG or MP3 stream which an Android device should be able to consume. I know the iOS MPD client can consume a stream in this way, not sure about MPDroid and similar. If not odds are some other android audio app should be able to play back the stream. Right now you need to set this up manually in mpd.conf, the wizards won't create a streaming output for you.
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linuxbear

Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 15:46    Post subject:  

I would be streaming ogg and flac, but find myself wondering if a long (duration in time) and complex file like a movement from a symphony would be handled well compared to more common compressed music which tend to be a lot shorter?
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Dynobot

Joined: 05 Dec 2012
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2013, 09:40    Post subject:  

ldolse wrote:
I'll probably make 0.17 the default in the next release - I initially experienced some hiccups with it, but I'm now thinking these are related to my network and have nothing to do with MPD.

Regarding renice, while I understand what the command is supposed to do in general, I don't really understand these specific examples. While I understand -10 is the nice value, what are 3, 9, 13, and 16? I can't reconcile this use case with any of the documentation on renice. It seems to me a renice script would need to grep through the process list or cat some PID files to determine which processes to renice.
ot sure about MPDroid and similar. If not odds are some other android audio app should be able to play back the stream. Right now you need to set this up manually in mpd.conf, the wizards won't create a streaming output for you.


Hi Idolse

The numbers 3, 9, 13 and 16 represent the actual processes that are being reniced. These are the interrupts that handle the audio threads.

Here is a link to the source, it also has other information concerning tuning Linux for audio.

http://wiki.linuxmusicians.com/doku.php?id=system_configuration
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