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Youtube knows me love to look at Cats wow :)
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4088
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013, 15:23    Post subject:  

I cannot offer ideas on methods of skirting information that gets collected; nor, can I quell any fears anyone has about potentials

But, since this is about YouTube with it having direct ties to Google (and other Search Giants), YOU (meaning 'We") can see the information collected on our behavior...in some cases.

Google recently published and makes available all information that is collected on your behavior. Its available for you to see. This assumes, of course, that you have a GoogleID. Its your information and they are adamant that it is private, yours, and not available to others! Whether one wants to debate that is a different issue of my post. This is presented so that we can see, if we are concerned, what actually was collected.

Hope the information you see from your browsing experience, as a result, gives clues for what you are concerned.

I take no position, pro or con.

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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 676

PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013, 22:13    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Google recently published and makes available all information that is collected on your behavior. Its available for you to see. This assumes, of course, that you have a GoogleID. Its your information and they are adamant that it is private, yours, and not available to others! Whether one wants to debate that is a different issue of my post.

I turned off my Google search history many moons ago, and my browsers delete all cookies (including Google flash cookies) when closed, yet my Google searches show I'm in a filter bubble, i.e. Google must be able to recognise it's me making the search and must have info of my previous searches, despite the fact my official Google search history has been deleted and turned off for over two years.

I have to Google search via a proxy to escape the filter bubble : to obtain search results which are not influenced by my previous Google search terms. The proxy prevents Google knowing it's me doing the Google search.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4088
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 01 Jan 2013, 22:43    Post subject:  

Quote:
"Whether one wants to debate that is a different issue of my post."
To Clarify: This was my attempt to say, that I was not wanting or desirous of a debate. I only wanted to share that there are methods to see what is actually collected. Again, I do NOT have a position, positive or negative, on the topic of traffic collection, though, of course, its nice to see that I can see my own personal activity.

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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 676

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 01:00    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Google recently published and makes available all information that is collected on your behavior. Its available for you to see. This assumes, of course, that you have a GoogleID.

gcmartin wrote:
... I only wanted to share that there are methods to see what is actually collected.

Google isn't revealing "all" the information it has collected.
Officially I have no Google search history : officially it has no record of my previous searches, but that cannot be true otherwise I would not be in a filter bubble. Without a proxy my Google searches show me results in niche forums/websites I have visited frequently. If I use the same Google search terms , but use a proxy, these niche websites are not shown in the search results, i.e. apparently Google can identify me and has a record of my previous searches which is not available to me or deletable by me.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 05:36    Post subject:  

Barkin wrote:
gcmartin wrote:
Google recently published and makes available all information that is collected on your behavior. Its available for you to see. This assumes, of course, that you have a GoogleID.

gcmartin wrote:
... I only wanted to share that there are methods to see what is actually collected.

Google isn't revealing "all" the information it has collected.
Officially I have no Google search history : officially it has no record of my previous searches, but that cannot be true otherwise I would not be in a filter bubble. Without a proxy my Google searches show me results in niche forums/websites I have visited frequently. If I use the same Google search terms , but use a proxy, these niche websites are not shown in the search results, i.e. apparently Google can identify me and has a record of my previous searches which is not available to me or deletable by me.



Thanks Barkin that sounds very credible to me too.
Google knows what kind of answers I would want to read.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 10:54    Post subject:  

Here's the problem I'm having.
I'm trying to not just determine how to mask ourselves now, but to determine what technology that is being used to accomplish what we see.

We know its happening, but we don't know how.

Maybe, rather than placing blame or declaring how upsetting it is, we can begin asking about what in the internet allows this to occur, first?

Can we not ask the Mozilla foundation's forum what exist to allow browser tracking that we observed in, say, Google searches? If we are observing this from Google, we can best believe that every search engine is employing similar technology as well. And, if its done by search engines, its not stretch to understand that others are doing it as well. And, this is easy to see. So there must be something that is common in browsers which provides the information that is being used as an assistance to our searches.

For example, in one of the last conferences I attended, one 2-hour seminar addresses collection and use of big data to make it easy for customers to reach the core of what they do. This technology is being taught at university levels across the world. It has become the interwoven into the fabric of those who have been graduating over the past 5 years.

This is viewed not as invasion of privacy, but, rather data useful for rapidly getting useful information back to its users.

So, understanding that this is the educational training that is now a part of the curriculum, I expect that I will see advancing technology attempting to provide something useful from that training.

Again, I am taking NO POSITION. But, I am aware of the landscape comprising those who become employed.

How many of us have gone to a purchase site and as we view selected items we see at the bottom of the page a pictorial listing of the products we already have clicked to view. This is not just Amazon, this is just about everyone. Try DealExtreme.

Now, to understand that technology that is common and in use from Microsoft, Apple, Google, Dogpile, Yahoo, AOL, and anyone who has a site where users come to see stuff...no matter if they give their ID or not.

What is that technology?

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2406
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 15:33    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Maybe, rather than placing blame or declaring how upsetting it is, we can begin asking about what in the internet allows this to occur, first?

1) The internet serves (first of all) american defence force interests. It has now also been hijacked in many different ways by many different defense departments (as well as corporate interests)
2) Routers are designed by companies that employ some people who work for military/political establishments. Router code and behaviour is not controlled fully by the end user.
3) Modern browsers lead the user by the nose. When a new codec is introduced there is pressure for the user to "upgrade" their browser to stay current.

With the software, hardware development, and internet backbone being beyond the control of the end user the answer to the question of "what technology allows this" is "everything"

Users can make a choice to ue a text only browser and visit only text based websites - but that is not the experience most want. Cats don't look the same in ascii.

Quote:
This technology is being taught at university levels across the world. It has become the interwoven into the fabric of those who have been graduating over the past 5 years.
This is viewed not as invasion of privacy, but, rather data useful for rapidly getting useful information back to its users.
Frightening and true. These future masters of society regard the end user as a milking herd. Control the internet experience of the herd and you will control their wallets. It is as if genuine news programs have been turned into infomercials.

Quote:
What is that technology?
In some ways it can only help a small amount to identify what the technology is - now that browsers are already way overweight there are always easy ways to graft new technologies into place as the old ones fall away or get beaten. The comments above regarding panopticlick demonstrate this. Puppy users leave a truly unique fingerprint on the internet as they traverse it. Google doesn't even need to add cookies to your machine - they can simply pattern every search according to your machines fingerprint and past behaviour.
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Barkin


Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 676

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 16:15    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Can we not ask the Mozilla foundation's forum what exist to allow browser tracking that we observed in, say, Google searches?

... there must be something that is common in browsers which provides the information that is being used as an assistance to our searches.

What is that technology?


Firefox does have "Google safebrowsing" enabled by default, which can tell google the websites you are trying to visit, even if you don't use Google search.

Identification via browser fingerprint would be possible with any browser even those who were not in bed with Google.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2406
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 17:57    Post subject:  

Interesting info Barkin. According to their comments even flashblock seems of dubious benefit in terms of privacy: "Unfortunately Flashblock does not appear to prevent Flash from reading and writing LSOs, so it's doubtful it can be relied upon to protect against fingerprinting. -- Pde 03:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC) "
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4088
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 18:18    Post subject:  

It then appears, that there is "no way" to be the invisible man on the Internet.

We can "masquerade" as someone else, but the concept of invisible man does not exist. Even in masquerading we are not invisible as the site allowing masquerade see us so that it can allow your traffic to be serviced to and from your PC.

"When I walk out of my house my neighbors see me. and so on..." In the 3D space we call our world, I do not possess the means to operate invisably. And since the Internet has been designed to 'kinda' mirror physical existence, we have been subjected to the only thing(s) we understand..."3D existence in electronic clothing".

Did I get that right? (and any ideas or other options?)

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Gyle

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Fr

PostPosted: Wed 02 Jan 2013, 23:17    Post subject:  

"It then appears, that there is "no way" to be the invisible man on the Internet.
...any ideas or other options?"

Yes a subversive option...
At the contrary you are surely an invisible man, browsing the Internet or walking in the street...
"you" never appears as "you are", if any thing like "you are" exists.
What exists is only the projection of the man who thinks of "you" as a target:
in order to sell something or control this "you", a thing already built in his mind .
This is NOT a philosophical statement that the observer is the observed.
The thing that the observer sees it is the projection of his own thought about the thing he believes he observes.
So it is very funny understanding that, at the very moment where the controller, on the Net, tries controlling,
it is himself which appears, the observer, the "controller".
In controlling, the controller becomes the controlled.....
.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4088
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jan 2013, 20:29    Post subject:  

Gyle wrote:
"It then appears, that there is "no way" to be the invisible man on the Internet....

... In controlling, the controller becomes the controlled..
Agreed.

Summary viewpoint: The controlled controller controlling is a physical existence. Whether its metaphysical or otherwise, I and they, are uniquely visible (given proper lensing) in this technological space.

And that's some of what this thread's information provides us, thus far.

On a twist of the basis for how they see us and where the new-hires will be creating from, see this.

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Last edited by gcmartin on Fri 04 Jan 2013, 14:45; edited 1 time in total
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Gyle

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Fr

PostPosted: Fri 04 Jan 2013, 10:30    Post subject:  

@gcmartin "The controlled controller controlling..."
the best formulation, no way in French.

More on "target" , " observer ...observed".
Instead of "proper lensing" like you worded, I would say
"They first fired their arrow - and then they painted the center of the target around it",
"arrow" like marketing, agenda, imperialism or external control, according to our own "paranoia",
we also are the observer AND the observed when we paint the so-called "Big Brother" speculating with our data.
The validity of the "electronics counter-measures" depends of these not so easy understandings. Objectivity doesn't exist.

Thanks for the link about the big data and the cloud computing.
.
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