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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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david_katelansky


Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Margate, FL

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 02:56    Post subject: Saving a Pussy Linux session
Subject description: Saving a session from a Pussy Linux full install
 

I'm seeing some posts about Pussy Linux sessions not being saved to the live-rw file. I don't have any experience with saving to the live-rw file because I went the full install route. I created a partition on a flash drive, called live-rw. My sessions get saved automatically to the flash drive, even though the install is on my hard drive (as promised on http://thepussycatforest.info).
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 11:01    Post subject: Re: Saving a Pussy Linux session
Subject description: Saving a session from a Pussy Linux full install
 

david_katelansky wrote:
I'm seeing some posts about Pussy Linux sessions not being saved to the live-rw file. I don't have any experience with saving to the live-rw file because I went the full install route. I created a partition on a flash drive, called live-rw. My sessions get saved automatically to the flash drive, even though the install is on my hard drive (as promised on http://thepussycatforest.info).


Glad you are having success. I am not very articulate when i explain things. If you have the live-rw file on any partition and it is not placed in a directory then it will work, however this has its drawbacks and its benefits. You can backup all your saved date by zipping and copying or just copying the one file to somewhere else for future reference but with FAT partitions having limit of 4gb singular file sizes, all of a sudden live-rw file doesnt look so attractive.

Your method of using a dedicated partition is better in my opinion. However now you have a successful HDD install, you may find that the compressed save file option in the catroll-panel will work nicely as well. This is more of an easy remaster tool than a save file method tho.

I think currently the only bug in the standard pussy-xtra2 that may be noticeable is the rox filer focus problem, but this will be fixed in the next release.

its strange, its been a year now since pussy was last updated and when googling it, i see more people are talking about it than ever and the downloads from my website certainly have been rather steady. I spose some plants still grow even when you dont water them. I think pussy is a cactus.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2547
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 14:18    Post subject: Re: Saving a Pussy Linux session
Subject description: Saving a session from a Pussy Linux full install
 

sickgut wrote:
I think pussy is a cactus.
<<Owwwwch>>
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david_katelansky


Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 11
Location: Margate, FL

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 10:28    Post subject: I found Pussy Linux While Binging
Subject description: I came across Pussy Linux by accident.
 

Sickgut,
I'd been in the Windows world for about two years, and hadn't touched Linux during that time. ...but when I started using Linux again, I binged (still MS affected) the Puppy Linux forums and came across a really great looking cat picture. That's what got me interested in Pussy Linux; the cat close up from your desktop.

Dave
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 12:26    Post subject:  

Sickgut, AFAIK didn't someone at the Debian Chat promise that in future
they will allow one to be frugal booting and root and still be able to save
to a save file. But lately you seems to have got inside info
that that promise was reconsidered and the Devs changing mind on it?

Is that something you wild guess or did you get in contact with one
of those that really know how they talk about it officially?

Would be sad if they have that incredibly locked view on it?

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012, 06:32    Post subject: Re: I found Pussy Linux While Binging
Subject description: I came across Pussy Linux by accident.
 

david_katelansky wrote:
Sickgut,
I'd been in the Windows world for about two years, and hadn't touched Linux during that time. ...but when I started using Linux again, I binged (still MS affected) the Puppy Linux forums and came across a really great looking cat picture. That's what got me interested in Pussy Linux; the cat close up from your desktop.

Dave


i made a point of adding no asthetic things to pussy until its finished because it detracts from the real issues and actually making the OS. (the OS still isnt finished yet, waiting for next working release of debian live to continue) Also if snazzy themes are added, they would probably need to be overhauled again on the next release or whatever. However, that cat pic was perfect, because the desktop icons where in the top left hand corner of the screen and the cat was on the bottom right ready to pounce on the icons, it was absolutely perfect and so i added it unaltered.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012, 06:49    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Sickgut, AFAIK didn't someone at the Debian Chat promise that in future
they will allow one to be frugal booting and root and still be able to save
to a save file. But lately you seems to have got inside info
that that promise was reconsidered and the Devs changing mind on it?

Is that something you wild guess or did you get in contact with one
of those that really know how they talk about it officially?

Would be sad if they have that incredibly locked view on it?


hi nooby (and for the benefit of everyone else i have explained things in detail)

the live system is being overhauled, with the next wheezy release that will work (the OS works but not persistence at the moment) they will also leave enough backwards compatible features and will work just like old Pussy except for newly named dirs in the /live folder and the compressed save file remaster thingy in the catroll-panel will need to be changed to account for the name change of the dirs.

from what i gather, the NTFS boot and write back to that partition thing will be fixed in wheezy live.

But while having backwards compatibility with the old pussy live-rw system, the official method of using save files/ persistence/ save partitions is now changed to "persistence"(either the file or partition named this) and the file or partition must have with in it a file called "persistence.conf" and this new file needs to contain the dir names of every dir you want to be persistent.

when i first started posting about wheezy live, i didnt realize that backwards compatibility with the old live-rw system would be included and so then i was considering using Ubuntu, this will now not happen, i will under no circumstances use Ubuntu as a base.

Yes, i could add more things and fix up the current Pussy but i due to sickgut's law of efficiency (never double up and do the same thing twice if waiting a little longer and doing it once will give a better result) i am holding out till wheezy is working

Once wheezy live is actually working, then Pussy will use it but still keep the old live-rw way of doing things because backwards compatibility will be there still, however the release after wheezy "jesse" will not have backwards compatibility and we will need to move to the new system.

i think one of the reasons they are overhauling wheezy live is to fix that darn NTFS write protection issue. they actually understand now that some people like to have a live system working from a HDD and even dual boot with windows.

in the mean time im just waiting. The next evolution of pussy is a dvd sized OS with everything you could possibly want in it. Wheezy has new enough verisons of software and much larger selection than squeeze. Squeeze is so old now that i tried compiling new webtv things and other apps for it and they all require a complete /lib upgrade and this would completely ruin pussies 100% debian compatible rule.

so the plan is to jump on wheezy as soon as it works (even while it is in "testing" and not the official "stable") and this could be a practical flagship base for pussy for possibly a few years and by the time Wheezy is the "stable" debian OS, Pussy will already be finished and ready to go before other OSes that use Debian Live stable as a base.

root/ boot/ frugal will work in the next debian live, but right now they are having issues getting persistence to work, but it will be sorted out and as soon as it is, pussy will be revamped.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012, 09:03    Post subject:  

wow that would be good.
thanks for such detailed answer.
no need to hurry better wait until
them sorted out and good that they
realize a working live is good to have
as a way to show people who hesitate
to format their HD with Ms windows on
in case they need it for upgrading the Smartphone
and digital Camera and such that insist to only
use ms win so good to keep just in case.

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jan 2013, 00:37    Post subject:  

Hello people.

Ok so i cant stand it any longer. I need to start working on the newer pussy base but debian wheezy live doesnt have their persistence features working yet.

I am going to go ahead with the new Pussy even without persistence and create a small server/ console only (may have Xorg as an option with JWM installed so that users can use synaptic and or other graphical tools to install stuff easier, this could be used as a base to build your own custom Pussy), an equivalent to Pussy Xtra that will be the size of a CDROM and a super Pussy that will be the size of a DVD.

But why do this if persistence isnt working yet with that Debian Live Wheezy base?

Well i can still do all the research i need to do, and i will take notes this time, i will keep a log of everything i have added and or taken away or edited or installed. So when Debian Live Wheezy does sort their persistence features out, i need only follow these instructions that i kept a log of to make the new fully working Pussies. 95% of the work making a Pussy is figuring stuff out, the next 5% is actually typing things or installing thing etc. So once i have the log/ instructions to make the new Pussy when wheezy is fully working, it should take more than a day or 2 to get Pussy refitted to the new working wheezy.

I will upload this newer Pussy if it is finished before Debian Live Wheezy is fully working, so everyone can take a look at it. Hell we may even figure out our own persistence method, i have a few ideas that i would like to try.

HDD install may be an option, even at a newbie level and even from within Windows (if i am to believe the debian live documentation, which i have learned you cannot under any circumstances believe anything in a debian live manual at all).

I think the HDD install will have debian branding all over it but hey, its still a nice feature, and i prefere users to actually know that Pussy is a form of Debian and 100% compatible so that they know they can get support for Pussy from Debian gurus and install any Debian program etc and it will work.

also HDD install give you the option of installing alive or non live normal system. If you select normal then you dont have to worry about persistence because data will get saved to your HDD just like if you where using a full install Puppy.

i dont have any dates i can give out yet, i dont know when wheezy will have its persistence working and i dont know how long it will take me to make a new Pussy, but rest assured, i am starting immediately.
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Bob_the_plumber

Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 18:04    Post subject:  

This is the right thing to do. Message approved by Chow Ming
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cinclus_cinclus

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Fri 11 Jan 2013, 05:06    Post subject: Persistence problem in wheezy resolved?  

Perhaps.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2013/01/msg00072.html
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan 2013, 00:12    Post subject: Re: Persistence problem in wheezy resolved?  

cinclus_cinclus wrote:
Perhaps.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2013/01/msg00072.html


Thanks, a January 5th revision of wheezy debian live has been released also, however due to the fact that fix you linked to is from January 10th, i presume that this fix has not been carried over to public usable live wheezy yet, also the newest one on their site is version-b3 while this fix states that version-b4 is being used.

Whatever the case, thanks for the update and link as this pretty much means that the b4 or b5 or whatever will be released with this fix included very soon. Ill try the fix in that URL to see if the same thing can fix the current version... fingers crossed... hope this works. If not its no biggy, atleast we know that no matter what, in a few weeks max this issue will be sorted.

Testing the Jan 5th b3 today with that listed fix, wish me luck.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan 2013, 05:09    Post subject: Re: Persistence problem in wheezy resolved?  

cinclus_cinclus wrote:
Perhaps.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2013/01/msg00072.html


Tried this with the Wheezy b3 from January 5th (latest public release) and no luck, soon as i modify the file that needs to be edited, it gives me boot errors and i also cant attain root access due to some kind of sudo problem. I have no idea whatsoever what the hell sudo has got to do with changing the persistence file labels but it craps out.

looks like ill have to wait for the next release, hopefully it will be soon
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Mon 21 Jan 2013, 09:29    Post subject: Re: Persistence problem in wheezy resolved?  

sickgut wrote:
cinclus_cinclus wrote:
Perhaps.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2013/01/msg00072.html


Tried this with the Wheezy b3 from January 5th (latest public release) and no luck, soon as i modify the file that needs to be edited, it gives me boot errors and i also cant attain root access due to some kind of sudo problem. I have no idea whatsoever what the hell sudo has got to do with changing the persistence file labels but it craps out.

looks like ill have to wait for the next release, hopefully it will be soon


YAY!!!

debian live wheezy has been updated as of 20th January and is now the B4 version that can be modified to run with persistence working, hopefully its already patch, if not then i will try again to get this to work, if it does then new wheezy based pussy will be a reality very soon

fingers crossed
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 22 Jan 2013, 08:14    Post subject:  

you know why i have pussy cat debian ghosts that keep sneaking into the pantry and eating all my tins of Spam?

Its because debian wheezy persistence is working and the ghosts are persistent also and looking for somewhere to save themselves frugally and on cdroms and usb sticks.

the new persistence system sucks tho. Like it works but there are some damn stupid features we will never use that makes it all way more complicated than it has to be.

I will list a comparison between the old school pussy squeeze live persistent and the new kind that is implemented by wheezy. I know the info here doubles up a little, because everyone knows how the old version worked, but im still listing the old and the new so that you guys can compare the two.

1.) old school live-rw
Setup syslinux or grub or whatever bootloader you like and add the
persistent tag to tell pussy to look for live-rw files.
Name any partition on your HDD or USB stick as live-rw and pussy will use this partition automatically to save stuff. You can make your own live-rw file and pussy will find this and save to it automatically. This is how you make a live-rw file:

use a terminal session to bring up the command line and cd to whatever mounted partition you want and do this:

dd if=/dev/null of=live-rw bs=1M seek=500
mkfs.ext2 -F live-rw

reboot to let pussy detect the live-rw file and you are done.

2.) new persistence system
add to your grub or syslinux or whatever bootloader you use, the following tag: persistence <--- note this is different from the persistent tag used in squeeze. Why the hell change something like that just for the sake of it?

label any partition on your HDD or USB stick etc as persistence. Place a file called persistence.conf on this partition with nano or leafpad or whatever and the syntax and formatting of this conf file is as follows... say you want /etc and /var and /usr to be persistent then set up the file like this:

/etc
/var
/usr

note: the dir / wont work (ie the entire filesystem) and /mnt and /media wont work either. WTF?

there is another way to setup the file:

# persistence backwards compatibility:
/ union,source=.

this way will make the entire filesystem persistent

Making the save file is the same as the live-rw mentioned above but change the name of the file to persistence. if you want the save file to work you need to add the persistence.conf file to the save file.

mount your persistent save file like this:

mkdir /test
mount -o loop persistence /test
cd /test
nano persistence.conf

lay out the dirs you want persistent in the format mentioned above:
/etc
/usr
/var

or enter this in the file:
# persistence backwards compatibility:
/ union,source=.

press ctrl + o to save the conf file

reboot the system to make this take effect.

The debian live people say wheezy is backwards compatible with the old live-rw files and partitions, i have tested this and its buggy as all hell.

Also note if there is no persistence.conf file added to your partition or save file then wheezy will try and add one, ths doesnt work correctly with the old live-rw files (even tho the documentation says it does) but this seems to work ok with the newer persistence file and if your lucky it will setup the conf file to contain this:

# persistence backwards compatibility:
/ union,source=.

but if you want it to work with no hassles, make the conf file yourself, as letting wheezy do this automatically doesnt work that great and may/ will probably fail.

again, god knows why the hell anyone would add this confusing stupid new persistence.conf setup thing rather than using the old method.
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