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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Fatdog64-611 Final (Updated 12-14-2012)
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3279
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec 2012, 17:16    Post subject:  

I made a special right click pet package for the latest Fatdog64-610

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=669887#669887

Some observations

1) It is the practice in recent Puppies to make the 'OpenWith' folder
and the 'SendTo' folder the same by making a link between the two.

I found that I had to put my right click menu items in the 'SendTo' folder
rather than in the 'OpenWith' folder.

2) Playing sound worked well but I couldn't record sound

3) I added in gtkdialog-splash and linked it to yaf-splash to
be consistent with recent puppies

4) gtkdialog2 isn't being used anymore so it can be removed

5) Most other puppies are making gtkdialog a link back to gtkdialog4

6) A defaultaudioplayer needs to be set

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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1815
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec 2012, 18:03    Post subject:  

Thanks Don570 I did the same last night with some help from CatDude.

I have noticed a few applications that do not work because they don't exist in Fatdog, ePDFview is one of them. It can easily be converted to evince.
The missing apps don't seem to cause any problems.

The other strange occurrence was the permissions in the /usr/share/apps directory needed to be changed as all of the icons for each app were the same. A "chmod -R 755 *" fixed it.

Cheers

don570 wrote:
I made a special right click pet package for the latest Fatdog64-610

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=669887#669887

Some observations

1) It is the practice in recent Puppies to make the 'OpenWith' folder
and the 'SendTo' folder the same by making a link between the two.

I found that I had to put my right click menu items in the 'SendTo' folder
rather than in the 'OpenWith' folder.

2) Playing sound worked well but I couldn't record sound

3) I added in gtkdialog-splash and linked it to yaf-splash to
be consistent with recent puppies

4) gtkdialog2 isn't being used anymore so it can be removed

5) Most other puppies are making gtkdialog a link back to gtkdialog4

6) A defaultaudioplayer needs to be set

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kirk

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: florida

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec 2012, 18:39    Post subject:  

Quote:
Suggestion: unless there is some big advantage to KMS which I am missing, wouldn't it be better to do the initial boot with nomodeset to have a better chance of getting to some kind of desktop or to xorgwizard?


It would break a lot more than it fixed. A lot of cards won't work without KMS, unless you use vesa. Vesa is a bad option, no 2D or 3D acceleration. Unfortunately there's no prefect solution.

Quote:
So what will a newbie do if they get a 100% black screen? Track down the FAQs to find the right boot option? Or walk away?


Some will walk away. If you can't enter a boot option, you probably can't deal with the xorgwizard ether. And even if you did, there's a good chance they'll end up using the vesa driver, at that point they would probably walk away as well. I think the black screen problem will be a small minority. I've tried on many different computers, haven't saw it yet. I think the biggest chance for failure is with Nvidia and computers with dual graphic cards.

Quote:
4) gtkdialog2 isn't being used anymore so it can be removed

5) Most other puppies are making gtkdialog a link back to gtkdialog4

6) A defaultaudioplayer needs to be set


Thanks for that.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2151
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec 2012, 20:44    Post subject:  

prehistoric wrote:
Just a query on my part: did you understand that when I used 'nomodeset' to prevent loading of the KMS module the video configured correctly automatically? In that sense I couldn't test the xorgwizard-new, because it never changed anything.

Disabling KMS means two things:
a) disabling the framebuffer console (=that is, you get your old text console)
b) disabling Xorg video drivers that rely on KMS (you can still use other drivers that don't use KMS)
The new xorgwizard (you are right it is named just "xorgwizard" to replace the old one) can be used to set the Xorg display resolution, whether or not KMS is enabled, with one exception: it won't work on proprietary drivers.

gcmartin wrote:
Would FATDOG benefit from using Shinobar's FirstRUN on its initial boot? If the developers are opposed, could it be a boot option?
Or you could do a remaster ...

don570 wrote:
1) It is the practice in recent Puppies to make the 'OpenWith' folder
and the 'SendTo' folder the same by making a link between the two.
ROX-Filer made the switch from "OpenWith" to "SendTo" quite a while ago, and we decided to adopt it (we prefer to run unpatched versions of the applications when possible). I considered to have the OpenWith symlinked to SendTo, but decided against it because it would only create confusions. Leaving backward compatibility is always difficult decision, but sometimes it needs to be taken in order to move forward.

Please note in Fatdog the main SendTo folder is located in "/etc/xdg/rox.sourceforge.net/SendTo". If you install the right-click here, it will be accessible for all users. If you install to "/root/.config/xdg/rox.sourceforge.net/SendTo" it will only be available to - well - root Wink Same comment with MIME-types too.

Quote:
2) Playing sound worked well but I couldn't record sound
You mean recording doesn't work, or there isn't any tool to record sound? If it's the latter, I can't find the tool too Smile There is a terminal app called "arecord" that can do it, but yeah I should write a GUI for that.

EDIT: I see you already have baconrecorder for that. Do you the source so we can compile it for Fatdog64?

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4784
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 04:31    Post subject:  

A bit behind schedule, but as promised, some tests with the 754 ECS/SiS Mirage. Good news is that it booted up into correct video without any cheat codes, not the expected result. Not such good news with on-board video OFF and a Radeon HD5450 PCI-e card substituted. It black-screen without boot codes, so I used the oldest subterfuge : pfix=ram vga=normal screen=800x600. From the black screen it was possible to return to prompt with CTRL-ALT-BKSPCE and run xorgwixard. However it wasn't possible to choose any suitable monitor and screen res. to obtain a picture. More success with the F2 suggestion using nomodeset which immediately booted into a useable combo. But there was more bad news lurking with this and an nV card both of which have (had - gave the nV card back to its owner) hdmi outputs. Even the presence of hdmi adversely interferes with sound card selection. Having been detected, it wasn't possible to run on-board sound nor an add-on sound card, neither of which appear in the <dmesg> or <lspci> o.p. This was disappointing. Not inclined to push this line of HW so respectfully decline any offers on that score. Cannot see what tone-deaf music-lover of any genre enjoys listening to their choice through the speakers of a monitor or TV, not even a 105" plasma monitor - they all contain cr*p speakers. Indeed, I cannot understand why anyone wants to listen to digital sound which has so much content missing. Obviously, our dud politicians want to sell the bandwidth of analogue radio for their perverted reasons, but we've come to anticipate their antics. Perhaps when quantum computing is available we'll be able to adopt a digital sound system with infinite bit-rate? Uh, call it pseudo-analogue?

But the scan time for wireless still needs to be doubled or adjusted in some way because the first attempt usually fails.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4784
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 07:27    Post subject:  

OK - now I'm back in 64-bit land, let's pretend I'm Sage2 (yes, I know about the men in white coats).
FD610 really is quite amazing and I'm sure I missed a load of advice whilst I was away working in 32-bit. However, I am now in the Radeon with HDMI and Control Panel is selecting this as sound vehicle; it tells that I should reboot to receive sound over HDMI, but I'm running off a liveCD with no HD, ipso facto, there will be no saved data. Yes, of course I can plug something in and save a file but how to activate sound-over-HDMI without that? I ask on behalf of those confronting this paradox as I will not be using it permanently.
I think it's been asked before and the answer was in the negative(?) but is it now possible to introduce one-click?
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kirk

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: florida

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 09:17    Post subject:  

Quote:
how to activate sound-over-HDMI without that?


You have to boot with radeon.audio=1 on the kernel line, if you don't want to make a savefile. They disabled audio over hdmi for radeon because it causes problems with some cards.
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prehistoric


Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 1271

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 09:30    Post subject:  

@Sage,

Out of habit, I also started by adding pfix=ram, which did not work. On Fatdog the equivalent is savefile=none.

@all,

If the problems center on nVidia graphics that is still a fairly large part of the market for computer graphics. So far, I have tested a motherboard with integrated nVidia graphics with and without an ATI Radeon 5450 card.

My next test will go the other way, a motherboard with integrated ATI graphics with and without an nVidia graphics card. I''m guessing that mixing video from different manufacturers is more likely to cause problems.

With luck, I'll be able to run this test today.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4784
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 10:45    Post subject:  

Hey - you guys are really on the ball; very grateful for your quick feedback whilst I've got all this stuff cooking.

Quote:
They disabled audio over hdmi for radeon because it causes problems with some cards.
Oh no! what else is next to confront?!

Quote:
pfix=ram, which did not work

Huh! Works for me, but I'll check out the 'none' option, too.
Many, many moons ago I seem to remember d/l-ing an extremely long list of cheat codes from either Tom's or Klaus' websites. Even printed it out. Several moves later, many OS and HD changes, no idea where it went but it's got to be up on the Interweb somewhere? Would I be correct in assuming that these are immutable and refer directly only to the kernel? Probably been added to by now?

Went off for a cuppa and my TV switched itself off because there was no default screensaver! I know how to set one up, but a default would be useful?
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prehistoric


Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 1271

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 12:13    Post subject:  

First, the good news: fatdog correctly configures the ATI integrated graphics automatically on that MSI 880GM-E43 motherboard with integrated ATI graphics and no off-board video. It also handles the off-board nVidia graphics card, an Asus EN 8400gs.

Now, the bad news: if configuration did not happen automatically, dropping back to nomodeset and pfix=vesa doesn't seem to leave a path to get to a good video set up.

I've also discovered that both vesa and the frame buffer tend to put the bottom of the frame off the screen, compared to puppy, though I can manually adjust the monitor to see enough to type commands. Going to the big fonts on the text console made this especially obvious. This is probably special to my monitor.

An incidental finding was that trying to mount a flash drive and install those pets using the text console was a real pain. That machine has a many usb ports and a multi-type flash card reader which makes it hard to find the particular flash device I want. Booting into a vesa console would make sense just to mount the flash drive when the desktop is working. You can then copy the pets to /root, where they will be easy to find when you leave the X-window system.

Unfortunately, I didn't have much luck going from vesa to anything else. If you don't get video set up on the first try you have a problem that will likely result in a call for help.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4784
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 12:19    Post subject:  

Quote:
You have to boot with radeon.audio=1

Did that but the machine remained silent. Something else? [ Picture is fantastic, though!]
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kirk

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: florida

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 13:06    Post subject:  

Quote:
Did that but the machine remained silent. Something else?


After booting with radeon.audio=1 (from the liveCD that would be fatdog radeon.audio=1), then run the multiple sound card wizard to select the hdmi "card", then open alsa mixer and un-mute it.
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Gobbi

Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 13:45    Post subject:  

Sage , kirk is right : you have to un-mute it every time you boot from alsa mixer if you don't use save-file. I had the same issue at first...
Made some tests with downloaded Fatdog 610 ..So far , as in Fatdog 600 , Display Properties from Control Panel/Desktop doesn't work with Mesa so I think I will get catalyst pet again...
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4784
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 14:24    Post subject:  

Quote:
un-mute it every time

Did that! No sound.
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Gobbi

Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2012, 17:13    Post subject:  

After switching the soundcard , I restarted the Xserver from " Menu/ Shutdown / Restart Xserver , then I opened Alsa Mixer and un-muted the channel. Worked for me.. If this doesn't work , after swiching the soundcard to hdmi try to remaster the CD ( on a rewritable media for instance ...) . In both cases it worked for my case ( Radeon 5770).

I'm now on 610 version , and I can say I noticed a better experience with wpagui, lxpanel , Firefox , sound and Mesa than in 600 version. Nice touch with the Menu button from lxpanel pet , now I will keep it the way it is Very Happy .
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