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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Collaborating as a team or group for Puppy good
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012, 15:36    Post_subject:  

I'd be willing to volunteer as treasurer.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1805

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 01:07    Post_subject: Re: All of what we say can be structured...simply into a framewo  

gcmartin wrote:

Are we at a maturity-level of PLDF to step-out in investing in such an effort?



gcmartin,
This is not how it works.
Is not for you, me and the "treasurer" (kudos Laughing ) to tell/advise TaZoC, 01Micko, JamesBond etc what and how.
Nobody is going to build our pupplet!

Try this instead (with this order).
1) Build what you can.
2) Tell (concept) what you want to build, show (code) how you go about it and where you are at (prototype).
3) Ask for help where you can not do it yourself (for whatever reason)
4) Ask for alternative technical suggestions/improvements/impementations
5) Invite (usually privately) people that contribute to join
6) If things start moving to the direction you want and can not be accommodated by the current structures, try to make it an "organization" (ie website, wiki, bug-tracker, IRC channel, mailing list and eventually forum).

PS: make sure you have a lot of time and some disposable income.

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 02:53    Post_subject:  

I vote for mavrothal's proposal.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4441
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 03:32    Post_subject:  

Don't take this wrongly, but, I think that approach is not a very good one. And because I say this doesn't mean that your comments are not of value. They are...

I see what you are suggesting, but, this is what is already done in Puppyland and there are many examples of this.

What you offer is similar to what has been going on.

I am suggesting true collaboration. This starts with a definition. One way of looking at a definition is to look at a starting point of what the developers I suggest already have done, understand, and are clear on. As a team we dont "tell" them what to do...instead we work with them working from a documented design point and working in such a way where everyone contributes what they can to the whole.

Its not just a slapping of packs together or just using a particular repo. Its about looking at what is to be achieved, the audience intended, and using the creativity of the forum, collaborating (at least willing to) for addressing objective.

I'm not trying to talk over someone's heads, here. And, I am not trying to suggest that because one does/doesn't write code he shouldn't be discussing a collaboration project either.

We talking about finding a methodology to work together and giving an honest try at finding approaches for useful work which could become generally available and have enough meat on the bones that everyone can "ride the dog". Much of the prior efforts were done using old approaches and old methodologies. With the open-sources tools and free collaboration tools, this community can achieve working as a team for common useful good.

It will take a willingness to want to work together.

P.S. How did anyone get the idea that "I" (as in eye) suggesting telling a project leader what to do? Is this a funny that I am missing or was someone trying to make a genuine comment?

AND, thanks @Jpeps for your offer of Treasurer and your opening monetary contribution to go toward a paid site. But, I think that as an Open source project team, we MAY be able to get collaboration site areas for free, if, of course, we carry this forward.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1805

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 03:54    Post_subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
What you offer is similar to what has been going on.


What I'm offering is what has been going on in the entire linux/open source universe.
And there are many reasons for that but no time to explain. Google it if interested.

Some forum-hopping will show that this does not discourage people from trying. Hopefully this is the case here too.

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 04:56    Post_subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Don't take this wrongly, but, I think that approach is not a very good one.


It's good enough to be surpassing multi billion dollar, professionally organized, collaborative efforts by the best and brightest.
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 09:33    Post_subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
ICPUG wrote:
You will not get a coordinated anything if a developer is in charge. They don't have the right people skills.

This idea has been expressed before in the forum and I have never understood it. It paints the picture of "developers" as being social misfits still living in their parents' basements. There are several active Puppy projects where the team leaders strike me as having excellent people skills.


Sigh - That is not what I meant at all. I am not denigrating developers. we must have great developers but we also must have users; testers; qa; etc. and then we need the guy to coordinate everything.

I don't have people skills either but I don't regard myself as a social misfit and I don't get upset about it - although I do get upset with those who think people without people skills have no value to offer.

Jpeps is right. We have some great developers around here but we have very few, if any, with the skills to provide the 'Project manager', for want of a better term, to create that really great Puppy Linux Distro.
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9260
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 10:43    Post_subject:  

ICPUG wrote:
I am not denigrating developers

Quote:
but we have very few, if any, with the skills to provide the 'Project manager', for want of a better term, to create that really great Puppy Linux Distro.

Again, I don't understand this. How can you take a group of strangers, assign them the arbitrary title of "developer" and then claim to know what skill set they do or do not have?

Please define "developer". Is it anyone who knows how to type "make"? Or knows some gtkdialog? How does knowing those things disqualify you from being able to work with other people?
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2669
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 13:01    Post_subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
AND, thanks @Jpeps for your offer of Treasurer and your opening monetary contribution to go toward a paid site.
It was me that offered the money (although I do recognise that $NZ aren't worth as much as $Aus Smile )
jpeps was offering to MANAGE the money. That's collaboration in action Smile
But if people are happy with freeware, that's cool.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 15:43    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:
It was me that offered the money (although I do recognise that $NZ aren't worth as much as $Aus Smile )
jpeps was offering to MANAGE the money. That's collaboration in action Smile
But if people are happy with freeware, that's cool.


greengeek: You can send me both your money AND your code, and rest assured that it will be managed properly. Smile
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2669
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 19:43    Post_subject:  

jpeps wrote:
You can send me both your money AND your code, and rest assured that it will be managed properly. Smile

My first wife said the same thing...
Smile
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 20:57    Post_subject:  

greengeek wrote:

My first wife said the same thing...
Smile


Collaboration doesn't always work out the way it should. How about the great collaborator, Apple Computer? Seems like their entire management is getting shifted around due to disputes over things what the graphics should look like. Ultimately, the person with the most power boots everyone out that doesn't do his bidding.
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elroy


Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 21:53    Post_subject:  

I could be taking this wrong, but when it comes to discussions of money I'm inclined to be put off right away (outside of the nominal amounts needed to secure web space, etc.). I'm all for an open-source model. If I were into this for profit, I'd concentrate on the biggest user base possible (at present MS or Android - at present and looking down the road). But for me, anyway, that isn't the case. For me this is a labor of love. I like the idea of an open source model, and feel very strongly that there is a need for this kind of development, and therefore I am "all in" in terms of it. And due to the efforts of such peoples as BK and others that make this possible in the Puppy Linux format, I, personally, have no choice other than to follow their example. In my opinion, this is one area that puppy excels. It may be fragmented, but it is certainly open. For those that wish to read and learn, the information is available to them. It may not be presented in a 'cookie-cutter' format, but none-the-less, it's there for the taking. And to me, to be fair (and, of course, this is my personal opinion), if you're taking, you should also be giving if at all possible.
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elroy


Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 22:10    Post_subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Again, I don't understand this. How can you take a group of strangers, assign them the arbitrary title of "developer" and then claim to know what skill set they do or do not have?

Please define "developer". Is it anyone who knows how to type "make"? Or knows some gtkdialog? How does knowing those things disqualify you from being able to work with other people?

I'd have to agree with rcrsn51 on this point. And that said, just because someone is a "developer" it should not necessarily disqualify them from being a "project manager". Something of that magnitude should be taken on a case by case scenario, something that stands on its' own merits, not as something that stands on a blanket theory. Some developers may be terrible in that role; some may be better in that role. I think that the skill-set needed is attention to detail, of course people skills, and of most importance - vision. With all of that, even if said person has all of those traits, they'd need another - the intestinal fortitude to know what they're doing is for the common good regardless of the few hundred complaints they receive, and the tact to be able to fend off the rebuttal in a manner that is inoffensive to most. To preclude a developer of this skill-set isn't necessarily realistic.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 22:25    Post_subject:  

elroy wrote:
And to me, to be fair (and, of course, this is my personal opinion), if you're taking, you should also be giving if at all possible.


Fortunately, you can do that very easily at Puppy Linux, without having to first ask permission from a group of "authorities" with their own personal agendas. If there's something that can be improved, you'll get feedback to that effect from users. That makes it a win-win situation.
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