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Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct 2012, 23:33    Post subject:  

re: Pussy Pie server edition lighttpd "bug"

Hi people, after using my Rasp Pi with Pussy Pie server installed i found something that isnt supposed to happen. The lighttpd webserver doesnt list directories and or files in directories, it only displays webpages and so any file you wanna share over the webserver must be directly linked to from the webpage. The behavior that i was aiming for is the webserver being able to serve files immediately once they are uploaded to the /var/www/ dir that lighttpd serves from.

Apparently its just a simple conf file edit and its all sorted. I will sort this out and upload the Pussy Pie server image again rather than provide a patch.

Ill post when this is done.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 28 Oct 2012, 00:03    Post subject:  

Hi peeps

It looks like this Pussy DVD idea is going to change slightly. After finding myself thinking "i wish i was working on wheezy and not squeeze" way way way too much, i have decided to bite the bullet and go ahead and move this project over to a Debian Wheezy based system instead of sticking with Squeeze. The reason is there is so much more and better versions of good software that is available for Wheezy than there is Squeeze.

Also after the Pussy DVD was made i would go a head and start work on the Wheezy based Pussies so m jumping ahead of the cue and just going to start work on the wheezy base. I think this wont really add much time as most of this was research and i have been keeping a package list on my website of all the new things being added to Pussy DVD, and combine that with the apt/ dpkg status file of the Pussy Xtra, i can combine the 2 here and get Pussy Wheezy up and running.

The gap between the quality of software apps between squeeze and wheezy is just too big, wheezy is just that much better than squeeze. Altho Wheezy isnt the official stable yet, it is frozen... meaning that everything that will be added has been and there is a complete repository available for it and for all basic purposes this is ready to go.

ill keep yall uptodate with the progress of the new Pussy base. I dont know yet if im going to go straight for the Pussy DVD first, then release the smaller ones later or start small and keep adding to make the larger Xtra and DVD distros. I am also considering what to do about the whole 32 bit / 64 bit thing as well.

ill be back soon and let everyone know whats happening
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2012, 10:00    Post subject:  

seems ive hit a bump in the road.

The debian squeeze live system had its problems but it seems to work just fine once you work out the whole live-rw thing, i was expecting the debian wheezy live system to be much the same but maybe slightly improved... and this would by all accounts be a likely assumption.

However the wheezy live system is so screwed up its hard to imagine using it, for one thing, live-rw is now called persistence....
no big change tho right?

the live system ignores the persistence file if there isnt a file inside it called persistence.conf and in this file is the list of the dirs you want the live system to remember on next boot.

the problem?

this means you will have to manually edit the config file for every dir you add that you want to keep persistent. And no, you cant have the / or /live listed as persistent as this would be too easy.
You cant just save stuff you have to constantly dick around like an idiot.

the other problem?

well this one is only minor but the live persistent system in wheezy doesnt actually work yet. Even tho there is documentation explaining everything and even if you do everything it says and then spend 3 or 4 days on the debian live irc chat support channel asking wtf is the problem, its impossible to get it to work.

Oh, you want persistence? You will need to get the latest iso. You already have the latest iso? then you need to wait longer for another release. Some users have found success using the sid system rather than wheezy.

Now the above situation wouldnt have worried me at all, except all the documentation said it works, it is working, its all fine, there is no issues. It doesnt say that no one in the world has actually got it to work and what annoys me more than all that is the fact i was treated like an absolute idiot on the chat channels because i constantly asked the same question for days and days and days asking for help, while others chatted on the channel, happily ignoring me.

The answer to my question? read the man pages. read the online documentation. And i did this time and time again. It wasnt till the 4th day that the debian live dev that was logged in the whole time and actually knew about the issues finally said.... Surprisedh yeah, well it doesnt work."

why was it so hard to just say that to begin with instead of rtfm all the time? and why have documentation saying it works and have the entire staff tell you time and time again to read the f*** manual, when they all knew that it didnt work to begin with and it has never worked?

Wheezy based Debian live is dead in the water at the moment and Squeeze is just to old to be able to run all the new things that we need to add to it and upgrade it etc.

I will either need to move to a new live base such as Ubuntu... the thought makes me puke on myself and break out in boils of sulfur.
However, the Ubuntu base does use the tried and true method of the old school "casper" system and the iso's themselves can be booted in grub. Nooby would be in heaven and whip out his endless supply of leet bootcodes, and i mean that in the most honest sincere way as well..... seriously, using an Ubuntu live base would introduce all the sweet booting stuff that we would never have even considered using in Pussy. The only problem is Ubuntu is a bloated mess but the server stuff isnt as reliable as debian but the desktop stuff and new software selection is way better.

At the moment i am weighing up the options: stick with a Wheezy Live base and use Pussies own squashfs remastering scripts in the catroll-panel as the only source of persistence (USB and HDD installs will function fine but there would be zero persistence with live CDROM or DVD).

or

Use an Ubuntu live base. Ubuntu works the same way with the whole apt-get thing and there are many similarities under the hood but we will be sacrificing a noticeable amount of performance with RAM usage and disk size. However, this will bring alot of the bleedng edge features to Pussy, thus bringing Pussy into the same league as any leet desktop bling system on the planet.

Both options make me sick to the gut. Time for sickgut to choose the least sicker of the sick things that makes sickguts gut sick.

if you would like to have your say about preference here then please have your say. Sickgut would be pleased with any feedback at all. OMG im referring to myself in the 3rd person again, i think the absolute crapness of the current debian live thing has spawned yet another new personality.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1330
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Tue 06 Nov 2012, 11:38    Post subject:  

Quote:
I will either need to move to a new live base such as Ubuntu... the thought makes me puke on myself and break out in boils of sulfur.


Don't know if you wanna learn a new dance.

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live-usb-w-persistence-from-antixsnapshot-remaster-t3746.html

http://antix.freeforums.org/antix-12-server-remasters-t3829.html

$ inxi -r
Repos: Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
deb http://www.daveserver.info/antiX/debs testing base main
deb http://debs.slavino.sk testing main
Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
deb http://ftp.gr.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free

Just comment out daveserver and slavinko or delete those lines and remaster a live antix instead with persistence using only the debian repos.

Quote:
Posts: 666
Twisted Evil

Maybe disregard this post Rolling Eyes I just noticed that.

Last edited by rokytnji on Thu 08 Nov 2012, 11:05; edited 2 times in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 07 Nov 2012, 10:49    Post subject:  

Thanks Sickgut!
"Nooby would be in heaven and whip out his endless supply
of leet bootcodes, and i mean that in the most honest sincere way
as well..... seriously, " ...

They are not really my cheat codes I just "borrow" them from two other guys.

forgot name but something D4P or similar user name. He and the other fellow
had some 145 linux distros on external USB harddisk and they described it
on their homepages and I suddenly out of accident tested to simplify the code
by testing word for word to see what did happen and one version of my
cheat actually booted and I found several Ubuntu variations that also booted

but then I got too cocky and bragged about it on Ubuntu forum and
most likely they realized my cheat could be used for to be almost as root
and they hate such so they changed something internally and only those
Ubuntu iso that is from 2011 or 2010 will work and not all of them either
but a handful.

So good luck with your experiments. I would test out what Rokytnji suggest
anti and his buddy has done something very good with AntiX so if
the Ubuntu thing fails for you give AntiX a try.

_________________
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not an ideal solution though
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 07 Nov 2012, 11:01    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Thanks Sickgut!
"Nooby would be in heaven and whip out his endless supply
of leet bootcodes, and i mean that in the most honest sincere way
as well..... seriously, " ...

They are not really my cheat codes I just "borrow" them from two other guys.

forgot name but something D4P or similar user name. He and the other fellow
had some 145 linux distros on external USB harddisk and they described it
on their homepages and I suddenly out of accident tested to simplify the code
by testing word for word to see what did happen and one version of my
cheat actually booted and I found several Ubuntu variations that also booted

but then I got too cocky and bragged about it on Ubuntu forum and
most likely they realized my cheat could be used for to be almost as root
and they hate such so they changed something internally and only those
Ubuntu iso that is from 2011 or 2010 will work and not all of them either
but a handful.

So good luck with your experiments. I would test out what Rokytnji suggest
anti and his buddy has done something very good with AntiX so if
the Ubuntu thing fails for you give AntiX a try.


you dont give yourself enough credit nooby, even if you just followed instructions from 2 other guys, you still improved upon it in a way that they couldnt do themselves. Also if you think that what you did isnt to be credited to you then no one in the puppy dev community deserves any credit either because they all use puppy that was made first by barryk. Just because someone did alot of what you do first doesnt mean your not an expert or that your knowledge isnt superior to the people doing it prior to you.

i personally think you should be like the official puppy to GRUB consultation officer or something.
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cinclus_cinclus

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Thu 08 Nov 2012, 06:46    Post subject:  

rokytnji wrote:

Don't know if you wanna learn a new dance.

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live-usb-w-persistence-from-antixsnapshot-remaster-t3746.htm

Wrong link! Must be:

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live-usb-w-persistence-from-antixsnapshot-remaster-t3746.html
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1330
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Thu 08 Nov 2012, 11:06    Post subject:  

cinclus_cinclus wrote:
rokytnji wrote:

Don't know if you wanna learn a new dance.

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live-usb-w-persistence-from-antixsnapshot-remaster-t3746.htm

Wrong link! Must be:

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live-usb-w-persistence-from-antixsnapshot-remaster-t3746.html


Must have been the 666 thingy in my post. Fixed it. Thanks.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 14 Nov 2012, 15:22    Post subject:  

Update:

still in limbo, the debian live squeeze is too old, and debian live wheezy doesnt work well yet. I am considering all the options, pussy will live, pussy will catch fish from the sky and birds from the ocean, just coz pussy is that good. When the new breed of pussy is done it will be so intelligent that pussy him/ herself will automatically frame your enemies for unlikely crimes and free pizza will constantly be delivered to your door 24/ 7. Pussy will rule the world, but right now pussy is finding the best 1337 base he can.

i heard that pussy was looking into ubuntu and or maybe a distro apt-get upgrade of the current pussy using its current live system but the rest upgraded to wheezy. I have not told pussy about antix yet but pussy will continue to be both sweet and awesome some time soon.

Ill post again soon when pussy and i have found a decent base OS live system for his soul to be transfered to.

in the meantime, i would like to thank everyone for their support for more than a year now.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1330
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Wed 14 Nov 2012, 16:13    Post subject:  

Quote:
I have not told pussy about antix yet


This is a Testing Base Iso 64bit AntiX 12.5 alpha 2 install running JWM at the moment. Slim login screen uses F1 key to toggle between Fluxbox and JWM with or without rox desktop.

Just showing you maybe shortcuts for building Pussy. For a no X option hardcore Pussy build. Go for the core iso which has apt-get and ceni for network connection and mc (mindnight commander) file manager. I have done core iso installs also using xdm as login manager and fluxbox with lxpanels for toolbars.

Anyhows. Just to show what JWM in base iso comes with (just a little taste). Wallpaper is a Photo shot sent to me by a Linux buddy in Australia of the solar eclipse recently.
jwm1-thumb.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   24.02 KB
 Viewed   903 Time(s)

jwm1-thumb.jpg

jwm-thumb.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   28.33 KB
 Viewed   891 Time(s)

jwm-thumb.jpg

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2012, 23:19    Post subject:  

Update on the new base for Pussy:

Ubuntu 12.04 is a LTS edition, meaning that it will be kept upto date for 5 years, thats nearly 4 and a half more years.

I dont know exactly what that means. Does it mean that only security updates are provided or does it mean that any new package that is submitted to Ubuntu for release in its repos is retro fitted to this aswell?

This may be asking stupid questions that i can google easily, but im just spitting at the moment, typing whatever is on my mind and thinking out loud about a few things and to show the ppl who use Pussy the things im actually considering.

There is a minimal remix of Ubuntu that is 187MB in an ISO, and the casper-rw live system it uses seems to function the same way as debian squeeze/ current Pussy as you just have a casper-rw file instead of a live-rw file. I really think some distros just change the names of things just because they can.

Altho this may sound promising, it has been confirmed by Ubuntu that their next release will not be a Live system or atleast a Live system with persistence. This is a major step back, they have also said their OS is so damn bloated that its no longer going to be CDROM sized. However, if we run with this LTS edition, there will be support available to users 'till the 4.5 more years runs out and thats an OK thing.

This gives us 4.5 more years of using the old school casper-rw (live-rw in disguise basically). And anything on earth and i mean anything at all you can possibly imagine is much better than dealing with mostly silent or rtfm bot devs on the debian live support channel.

The functioning OS with the 187MB ISO does seem promising enough, i estimate we could reduce that further to about 120MB or so with my slimming techniques. However this give you nothing at all, this the barest of bare console only OS. This is about 40% larger and i bet uses more RAM than the Debian Live Squeeze base that Pussy has now.

I am considering the 12.04 LTS base rather than the 12.10 as the LTS means we can be up and running and remain relevant for 4.5 years.

Ubuntu uses bigmem PAE kernels for its 32 bit varieties and so there is no disadvantage there.

Ubuntu has been my arch enemy for many years (8.04 was about the last good distro they had) and it makes me feel dirty and i mean rocking back and forth naked in the shower crying kind of dirty to even consider using an Ubuntu base.

This is about the most corporate Linux you can get, there is non free firmware in the kernel, there are probably backdoors in every second line of code and if there was ever going to be an active linux virus it will be written for Ubuntu and because its high profile, popular distros that use it as a base come under scrutiny. I kinda hope Pussy doesnt get popular while using Ubuntu as a base, it gets ugly because all of a sudden you cant get away with all the "grey" areas of copyright stuff and including non free codecs i your standard install. This is why Ubuntu cant play an mp3 out the box without an update and why Win98 can. Win98 can play a mp3 with no mods because the codec is included in the price, Ubuntu is free, no one pays jack and so the company supplying the codec will become irate.

Its so depressing to think that Windows 98 from 14 years ago does more stuff out the box than the current Ubuntu. There is also the line from the the Ubuntu devs that haunts me: "Ubuntu is becoming something OTHER than Linux" meaning the plan is to become incompatible with everything else and so if you get in the Ubuntu trap, no doubt you will have to pay to do stuff that should be free, just like Windows and Mac.

Im doing some more research but it seems the Ubuntu is the best option in an evil world.

Also i am looking at making Pussy able to access as much free media content as possible. All the WebTV and web radio stuff will be there and be free. I couldnt do this in the current squeeze base, everything needed a newer kernel and it was impossible to even compile the apps needed on squeeze and the squeeze repo doesnt have any good apps for this or the apps need to be run as a normal user rather than root and just crash with no output to tell you whats wrong. Owning Pussy and a internet connection should be just as good as having digital radio, cable TV, satelite TV and do everything else like that.

OK peeps ill check back when work has started.
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Bob_the_plumber

Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2012, 13:32    Post subject:  

Well but.. if you use ubuntu you will lose your soul
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Thu 22 Nov 2012, 21:47    Post subject:  

Bob_the_plumber wrote:
Well but.. if you use ubuntu you will lose your soul


today at 12:40pm, i infact did loose my soul.

Been messing with the Ubuntu 12.04 mini remix iso. Everything seems to work ok andi reduced the 187mb iso to 155mb, still too big (this is just a skeleton) and managed to get the casper-rw persistence working.

However, i was curious about a Configuring network..... error
and an additional Waiting for up to 60 seconds to configure network.....

And a little searching revealed this is a known bug and there is no solution yet. You can remove all of the autodetecton network stuff and use nano and ifup and ifdown etc to assign ip's manually tho....

So, this is what i expected with Ubuntu. There is a pause that lasts for more than 2 minutes, the computer is doing nothing and its a known bug with the solution being "remove the network stuff". There is no other fix. This is just how it is, the OS seems like it would load reasonably quickly and then just stops for 2 minutes.

well its par for the course im afraid.

The absolute stupidity of Ubuntu and Debian Live Wheezy simply amazes me. I really thought that i had seen it all but obviously i had not.

Seriously considering if i should go the CentOS route or even slackware. They both have package management similar to apt-get altho the "yum" in CentOS is so damn complicated its like a step back. I havent used slackware to know how good their package management is, i only know that it exists. CentOS would give us immediate street cred for server stuff and slackware would get the attention of the ultra geeks that are twice as obese and have even less of a social life as me.

im not even disappointed. I knew Ubuntu can and could not ever be as easy as simple setting it up and using it how its supposed to be done and 100% of the time its 100% buggy and is completely worthless for absolutely every use other than to confuse Linux users and increase the sales of Windows and Mac and Android pc/ devices and or cause users to become so annoyed that they use pen and paper rather than a computer and play games on a PS3 or Xbox.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 23 Nov 2012, 05:26    Post subject:  

Don't take the following serious. How did this guy named Penk from Thailand
set up his xpud OS? He uses ubuntu as the base and get persistence going
and most likely he is root too? Just me guessing. I did a frugal install and
it works good.

He is on to other projects now but maybe one can still download
enough of his work to get how he did that?

http://www.xpud.org/
http://code.google.com/p/xpud/
Source Code - http://github.com/penk/mkxpud

grub4os menu.lst entry Sadly I am too laxy to check it out
but one or two of the following should work. They are for different iso

title xPUD 0.9.2
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage noisapnp lang=en screen=1024x786 initrd=driver.opt,codecs.opt,apps.opt
initrd /opt/core


title xPUD 0.9.2 boots with persist
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage isofrom=/xpud-0.9.2.iso noisapnp lang=en screen=1024x786 initrd=driver.opt initrd=codecs.opt initrd=apps.opt
initrd /opt/core


title xPUD latest xpud-10272010.iso boots with persist ? uses Chrome
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage isofrom=/xpud-10272010.iso noisapnp lang=en screen=1024x786
initrd /opt/core


title xPUD latest? xpud-10272010.iso
root=hd(0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage noisapnp lang=en initrd=driver.opt,codecs.opt,apps.opt screen=1024x786
initrd /opt/core

There is a forum but almost none uses it.

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Xtanova


Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Location: Egypt

PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov 2012, 23:45    Post subject:  

Hi sickgut

Sorry about your frustration with Debian wheezy .. for my assumption if Debian performance is getting to be unreliable, no wonder if users will move to other distros than Debian and Ubuntu like Mageia.

Forgive me for my random wondering ..I'm just a newbie .. but why LMDE 201204 is non of your choices..It has casper like ubuntu, and if I'm not mistaken it can be added to grub2 menu.

Code:
menuentry "Linux Mint Debian (LMDE) 64-bit" {
#linux /casper/vmlinuz rootfstype=vfat boot=live live-media-path=/casper quiet splash --
linux /casper/vmlinuz boot=live live-media-path=/casper quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.lz


casper rw persistence can be added after boot.

There is a Dev got inspired already by Puppy and AntiX, and made a stripped version of LMDE: http://www.swiftlinux.org/

Quote:
Target Markets

Windows users, especially Windows XP users
Ubuntu 10.04 LTS users
Linux Mint users with computers that just barely meet hardware requirements
Puppy Linux users who want a larger software repository for the more specialized applications available
antiX Linux users who want better hardware/codec support for things like watching DVDs
Users of forensic/recovery live CDs
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