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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
CAN Puppy "really" become the most mainstream Linux distro?
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2012, 18:38    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
I normally shy away from these threads because they are usually based on some misguided fanaticism of PuppyLinux. However gcmartin has put thought into this and has brought some interesting points to light, so I figured I'd comment.

Can Puppy become the most mainstream distro?

I dont believe it can. Not because I dont feel that puppy is one of the best, but because I see the very nature of puppy to make this not possible.

1) We have no package management. Until this becomes a feature, we will never become a "main" distro. The matter has been addressed by Devs many times, and each time the same fact has emerged... Puppy is too fractured for any single package management system to work properly. Which leads us to #2.

2) Puppy is too fractured. As others have mentioned before, we dont have the same dev structure as most mainstream distros. Each Dev works on their own side project while adding in features and assistance into the official releases. This isnt a bad thing though, in my mind at least, this is one of the best features of PuppyLinux. It's so customizable that it can be whatever a person needs. And you can see by the number of versions out there that those needs and designs are many. Puppy is very easily customizable and re-configurable. Its this very feature that many of us love, that works against PuppyLinux ever becoming as big as or bigger than the likes of Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.

3) The $ issue. The Big distro's have financial backing, and a huge userbase of donations. Puppy on the other hand is more of a hobbist OS. I see this as a hurdle in ever becoming a 'main' distro.

4) Linux is too easy to make now adays. Anyone with basic knowledge of Linux can now create their own distro and release it. I place the blame for this on debian which has spawned a entire generation of 'slightly different distros' If you check on DistroWatch you have 146 versions based on Debian... plus its main offshoot, Ubuntu has spawned a further 88 versions of Ubuntu. If we then count Ubuntu's offshoot, LinuxMint... the number grows even larger.
This versus 13 based on RedHat, and 20 on slackware for contrast.
Alot of people in the IT field have realized that being a 'core developer' on a linux distro looks great on a job resume... and so they get together with some friends and make a few fast edits to debian, ubuntu, etc; remaster, grab a domain name and BAM... They are a core developer.
This is only going to get worse and worse as time goes on. I feel that the divergent nature of this will mean that the only 'main' distros will be the ones that are already in that spot. I dont see a new comer, being able to rise above all the chaff and become the most used. There's simply too much competition. And since Linux is all open source, even if some new distro came up with some amazing new feature... everyone else could copy it and then it wouldnt have any thing special to offer over anyone else.

Dont misunderstand me... I love PuppyLinux. But I just dont see PuppyLinux ever being able to compete with the large distros with the large userbase and $ backing. Puppy is kinda quriky (pun not intended) in how it operates. That quirkyness is one of the things I love about Puppy, and why I was drawn to it. I think PuppyLinux has an awesome niche, and I think we will grow stronger and stronger if we continue to focus on the areas where we can succeed. I think trying to follow the path of 'lets get the most users' will end up resulting in a puppy that is nothing like we currently have and love.

Just my thoughts... interested in everyone eles' views on them.

sickgut wrote:
Every moden PC that uses skype and facebook and MSN and Mozilla based browsers have multiple backdoors running all the time. If Puppy became this popular it would have to include such things. Altho the Linux kernel already has this, i dont know if its able to be circumvented by editing and compiling your own.

I'd love to see something to verify your claims that the linux kernel has a backdoor built into it. If you have something to show that... please post it. Id personally like to look into that.


the whole point of having a backdoor in the linux kernel is to keep it out of reach of the public, i cant show you this. Do your own research on the laws in your country, its basically universal that every popular communications device has a hardware and software backdoor, including operating systems, the popular apps you install on them and the computer itself. The backdoor in the linux kernel is the least of your problems. Like i said, look up the laws in your country and you will be absolutely shocked at what you will discover. I dont know if compiling your own kernel removes this.
if you dont believe me then i dont care.
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov 2012, 20:22    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
q5sys wrote:
sickgut wrote:
Every moden PC that uses skype and facebook and MSN and Mozilla based browsers have multiple backdoors running all the time. If Puppy became this popular it would have to include such things. Altho the Linux kernel already has this, i dont know if its able to be circumvented by editing and compiling your own.

I'd love to see something to verify your claims that the linux kernel has a backdoor built into it. If you have something to show that... please post it. Id personally like to look into that.


the whole point of having a backdoor in the linux kernel is to keep it out of reach of the public, i cant show you this. Do your own research on the laws in your country, its basically universal that every popular communications device has a hardware and software backdoor, including operating systems, the popular apps you install on them and the computer itself. The backdoor in the linux kernel is the least of your problems. Like i said, look up the laws in your country and you will be absolutely shocked at what you will discover. I dont know if compiling your own kernel removes this.
if you dont believe me then i dont care.


But that's negative reasoning. You're claiming a backdoor is in there. You're proof of that is that no one can show you that a backdoor is in there, because admitting that would be illegal.

You cant prove something with a negative.
Yes there was the attempt back in 2003 to insert a backdoor into the kernel, and it was discovered before it was ever made final. There are just too many eyes to successfully plant something like that. Too many people are involved and would want the 'prop's for discovering such a backdoor in the kernel. You're talking about a conspiracy that covers thousands and thousands of programmers who work on the kernel,and deal with it all the time. Not to mention you're talking about programmers from different countries with different laws. If a program in Sweden was on board with helping the US government put a backdoor in the kernel... he'd be comiting treason against Sweden.

I agree the gov is nefarious and wants to take away any privacy with computers, but a conspiracy of that magnitude would collapse under its own weight because the government cant really do anything properly or efficently. What you're talking about is a multi-government conspiracy, from both friendly and unfriendly countries working together.

People claiming that there is a back door is doing the government more benefit than there actually being one, because it causes people to operate based on fear. As governments have learned, Fear is the #1 motivation to bring about social change.

Can you show ANY verifiable claims that agree your claims that the kernel has a back door?
If you cant... then its no more believable than the thousands of other conspiracy theories out there. And I'd honestly say its less believable than the 'hollow earth' theory. At lease they have (incorrect) pseudo-science to back up their claims.

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