Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager

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greengeek
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#1681 Post by greengeek »

I think Openoffice has been sidelined and is not developed the way it used to be. Libreoffice seems quite variable from release to release in my opinion, and I feel a lack of confidence in it's consistency and compatibility (although I don't have any specific examples to offer at the moment..)

My personal choice would be to use Textmaker 2008 (part of the free Softmaker 2008 package that Barry got hold of) and add docx support (even if it is read only that would be better than nothing).

Some versions of Abiword are supposed to be docx capable but I've had little success.

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sickgut
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#1682 Post by sickgut »

aaaarrrgh

I wasted a whole morning trying to upgrade Pussy DVD to the newest Seamonkey and Java but couldnt get Seamonkey to detect Java or run Java on websites (runescape.com and keepvid.com are a good test)

but apparently newest Seamonkey isnt compatible with Sun/ Oracle Java 7 and above, i found this info on the Seamonkey site. I hope this isnt a general Mozilla browser kinda thing as ill try Firefox as the new cleanmode browser.

If worst comes to worst then ill just have to keep the current Seamonkey and Java verisons.

Does anyone have any comments as to any recent incompatibilities the older Java has with new software? I didnt notice any but like i keep saying, i dont use a computer in the way normal people do so i dont know whats popular etc.

the combination of new seamonkey with old java doesnt work either, also the new java and old seamonkey. Arrrrgh!!!

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sickgut
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#1683 Post by sickgut »

greengeek wrote:I think Openoffice has been sidelined and is not developed the way it used to be. Libreoffice seems quite variable from release to release in my opinion, and I feel a lack of confidence in it's consistency and compatibility (although I don't have any specific examples to offer at the moment..)

My personal choice would be to use Textmaker 2008 (part of the free Softmaker 2008 package that Barry got hold of) and add docx support (even if it is read only that would be better than nothing).

Some versions of Abiword are supposed to be docx capable but I've had little success.
thanks for filling me in. Ill look for a docx plugin for abiword and or the other few office packages that have been installed so far.

The OpenOffice in Pussy that is already there may or may not be replaced with anything newer as im still experimentng. There are a few pluses for having an official debian openoffice package (however this will be a little out of date) namely seamless intergration into OS as a whole, especially if openoffice plugins for firefox and other browsers is included. The slightly newer OpenOffice that is included in Pussy currently (from Pussy Xtra) is a static install that isnt so seamlessly working with everything else automatically. Here we have the 2 sides of the coin most common with 100% debian based OSes, either have newer static installed packages that are a little more fiddly, or have older out of date packages that have been tested to work very well....

At the moment i am leaning toward having the koffice and goffice and abiword type stuff from debian handle everything automatically with browser plugins and other type stuff but also have a libre or newer openoffice statically installed but kinda disconnected from the rest of the OS.

[edit: have added a packaged called "tea", it can open and manipulated MS Docx files as well as most others. Have not found an Abiword plugin for Docx yet]

[edit #2: just checked, the Open Office 3 that is already in Pussy Xtra and therefore Pussy DVD will inherit it also has Docx support, but i am looking for text maker to see if there is a neat package i can use]

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sickgut
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#1684 Post by sickgut »

re: java and browsers

There is alot of room left in the DVD iso and this lets us do things not usually considered in an OS.

The current situation like being caught between a rock and a hard place, but there are a few points i wanna make clear so that yall are up to speed:

1) New Seamonkey doesnt work with new version 7 Java, nor does new Seamonkey work with old Java or old Seamonkey with new Java. The current cleanmode browser of a Seamonkey that is fairly old coupled with the not so up to date Java does work however so this will be left as is. Cleanmode browser that is basicly an auto unzipping static package that creates links to the static installed Java will be kept at their current versions.

2) the only Debian Squeeze Java packages from the Debian repos (Pussy is based on Debian) is very old, much older than the static Java that cleanmode Seamonkey uses. This will work flawlessly with the older browsers that have been installed from the Debian repos. These cant be tricked easily into using the staticly installed version of java that the cleanmode Seamonkey uses.

3) its possible to have the best of both worlds, cleanmode Seamonkey using its own version of statically install Java that is disconnected from the rest of the OS, and Debian repo installed browsers using the older Java that is available from the Debian repos.

4) This still doesnt give us a combination of the latest browser and the latest version of Java. However, the cleanmode seamonkey setup has its own squashfs file, this allows for it to be easily changed without having to download the entire OS again.

The best way to navigate through these problems (in my opinion) is to keep the cleanmode Seamonkey and its statically installed Java (the Java seamonkey links to is in /xtra/java) unchanged but to also install the official older Debian Squeeze version of Java so that the browsers installed from the same Debian Squeeze repos uses the older Java with no further config needed. However the Java executables that link to (or from depends how you look at it) /usr/bin/ will be linked to the newer static installed Java not the native Debian one so that Java apps run locally that dont use a web browser are running on the slightly newer version than the official Debian Squeeze version.

This problem of the lack of an up to date browser running an up to date Java will only be temporary because as soon as the compatibility between the new browser and new Java is solved, a new seamonkey.squashfs will be released, providing an easy upgrade so the user doesnt have to download the entire OS again. However the Pussy iso will be updated to include the new squashfs as well.

in the meantime tho, we are screwed :(

[edit: anyone work around is to make Pussy a Squeeze/ Wheezy hybrid, there is a Java version 7 (reasonably new) in Wheezy and much newer browsers. This would work but it would make Pussy a little harder to support when Pussy users goto a Debian chat channel to get support. No one will touch a hybrid of the two versions.]

rokytnji
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#1685 Post by rokytnji »

I don't know if this will work in pussy for you or not sickgut.

The 2 ways I install java in Debian.

One way

http://antix.freeforums.org/how-i-insta ... t3892.html

Another way



http://www.duinsoft.nl/packages.php

Good luck with it.

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sickgut
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#1686 Post by sickgut »

re: browsers and latest java. I just tested firefox with java 7 and it works. Ill make the new firefox as the new cleanmode browser.

now to find the best way to install java 7 into Pussy. The post before this one has a way that will tie it in with the apt-get/ dpkg system, ill get this to work if i can. It would be best not to have to worry about static and official debian separate installs

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sickgut
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#1687 Post by sickgut »

rokytnji wrote:I don't know if this will work in pussy for you or not sickgut.

The 2 ways I install java in Debian.

One way

http://antix.freeforums.org/how-i-insta ... t3892.html

Another way



http://www.duinsoft.nl/packages.php

Good luck with it.
Thanks the duinsoft.nl way does indeed install the newest java and in a way that the rest of the OS can see it. However this is only the JRE version, the runtime for executing Java... that is fine but i am going to install the JDK which includes the JRE and the deveopment stuff as well.

To do this i will first install the duinsoft way and then download and place the Java JDK from the sun/ orcale site in /xtra/java. Then i will remove the JRE portion of the JDK (/xtra/java/jre/) and then create a link from the /opt/java/32/jre7.xxx/ to /xtra/java/jre/ and this should make everything work fine. Java developers needing to compile Java apps simply need to know that the java development stuff is in /xtra/java and for every other use no one will care because it will all work seamlessly.

The new cleanmode browser setup will make firefox link to the java in /opt/java/32/jre7.xxx/ instead of /xtra/java

Thankyou rokytnji.... that was extremely helpful

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atv
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#1688 Post by atv »

Hi sickgut and others,
Sickgut wrote:
Just to bump the thread, and to show how many packages so far have been added to Pussy DVD (only a little more than half full at present) and to give everyone an idea of what is being added just for the hell of it, here is the current list of packages added so far.... any comments are welcome.
That is a very impressive list indeed! but I noticed no video player, I happen to like VLC. what do you think?

Regards, Andres

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sickgut
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#1689 Post by sickgut »

atv wrote:Hi sickgut and others,
Sickgut wrote:
Just to bump the thread, and to show how many packages so far have been added to Pussy DVD (only a little more than half full at present) and to give everyone an idea of what is being added just for the hell of it, here is the current list of packages added so far.... any comments are welcome.
That is a very impressive list indeed! but I noticed no video player, I happen to like VLC. what do you think?

Regards, Andres
an updated package list can be found at:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux ... e-list.txt

alot more has been added since that previous post.

There is VLC, gxine and Mplayer and i think one or 2 minor ones...

Note that this list isnt the entire list of the Pussy DVD OS, but the packages added to the previously released Pussy-Xtra that will in total make the new DVD sized OS. The Pussy Xtra is fairly jam packed with stuff for its 640mb size.

The Pussy DVD OS should be ready for release in maybe a week or so, i think i have added 3/4 of the actual programs but all the stuff for the custom menus is going to be quite labor intensive as some of the JWM menus are so large that they kinda run out of the borders of the screen. Not only am i going to need to separate the app menus better, but in some case I may have to have added subsections.

eg... instead of meow?-> Pussy -> games -> action games

im probably going to need to add something like:

meow?-> Pussy -> games -> action games -> games starting with A
-> games staring with B
-> games starting with C

This may be a tad of an overstatement / exaggeration but you get the point. Meow? is the equivalent of the Windows "start" button. I forgot what Puppy calls this.

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#1690 Post by sickgut »

Finally, the additions once squashed equal 3.2GB. Add to this the 640mb of the Pussy Xtra ISO and we are almost in the ball park, leaving a few hundred MB for general customization and the addition of an app here and there.

Today i start work on the custom JWM menus and once that has finished ill upload the new ISO so that it can be tested and configured or changed further before the second and final release.

Then the Pussy Xtra will get a working over. This final Deban Squeeze based release will make it full Beta, not a preview. I will also pay for advertising on Distrowatch. The only thing about promoting Pussy globally that i am a little disappointed with and may hurt Pussies popularity is there is no easy newbie level walk through for HDD installs. Everything else i think we have nailed, and nailed it very well.

For those of you concerned about the visual GUI aspects of the OS, dont worry. It will be tidied up before i start promoting Pussy aggressively. Also every currently discovered bug fix will be applied.

For those of you concerned about dropping the Pussy Base version from the line up, i am not adverse to the idea of opening it all up for a community project, but right now i see it as the least popular and therefore making least impact in people lives and the upkeep required on my part is just too much. This is further complicated by the fact that the original multi squashfs filesystem while sounding good on paper increased the workload 3 fold and will be dropped in favour of a single squashfs file system but leaving it all open for multi squashfs down the line to allow quick and easy bug fix patches and possibley the cleanmode browser version updating. Note that Java JRE and Flash may find their way into the cleanmode browser updates. Because the Base version cant really exist unless it is all divided up into multiple "steps" of squashfs, this is another reason why i am seeing the base version as impractical.

These revisions to Pussy will be the final for the Debian Squeeze base as by the time enough time has passed to make some of the things included in Pussy to go out of date, Debian Wheezy will become the new stable and a newer Pussy based on Wheezy will be created in both (i am hoping) 32 and 64 bit keeping the server, Pussy Xtra (may be renamed to just Pussy and the Pussy DVD, may be renamed to Pussy Xtra). As far as i can tell separated 32 and 64 bit linux versions are still required to cover all bases but hybrid 32 and 64 bit linux existing in the one kernel may work with Wheezy rather soonish and I hope this happens as this will put linux on par with Windows XP/ Vista/ 7 64 bit OSes and it will halve the future workload on my part.

At some point the current Squeeze versions of Pussy may have a patch released for them that contains an apt-get update (note this s not a dist-update but rather just updating the packages to the newest possible version without changing the kernel). This will only add 50mb or so to the size of Pussy Xtra and 85 or so to Pussy DVD and both ISOs have room for that extra data. This may breed new life into Squeeze based Pussy once Squeeze is no longer the current stable.

I am currently working on the internet TV application for Pussy then i will start the JWM menus, then upload the first revision for Pussy DVD.

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sickgut
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#1691 Post by sickgut »

re: main office suite for Pussy DVD

The Openoffice installed statically in /xtra/openoffice (version 3) is being replaced by LibreOffice 3.6.2 and it will be install statically in a very similar way. The new LibreOffice is only 160mb or so while the OpenOffice is over 300mb.

The desktop icon for "office" will remain the same, and oo, openoffice, open-office, office ... commands at the terminal will also launch the new LibreOffice as well as libreoffice, libre, loffice, lo
There will be scripts of these names placed in /usr/bin that all run the same executable that runs LibreOffice.

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sickgut
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#1692 Post by sickgut »

re: WebTV

I have tried time and time again to get freetuxtv working in Pussy but it needs a gtk environment that cant be installed on debian squeeze without upgrading the whole thing to wheezy.

Gxine and other players have media lists built in but surprize surprize... none of them work.
Maybe i dont need to installed specific WebTV client, rather just need an uptodate list of available channels with their URL and other info if needed.

Im determined to get this working as i saw it in Puppy a while ago and it blew my mind. My Virtual box doesnt want to run Slacko so im having trouble determining what app is used in the new Puppies for this.

rokytnji
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#1693 Post by rokytnji »

Just some stuff I run sickgut.

http://www.getmiro.com/

http://www.hulu.com/labs/hulu-desktop

I haven't tried miro yet in my macpup 529 install but I got Hulu Desktop working in it at the moment.

http://hardkap.net/forums/topic/hulu-tv

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sickgut
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#1694 Post by sickgut »

rokytnji wrote:Just some stuff I run sickgut.

http://www.getmiro.com/

http://www.hulu.com/labs/hulu-desktop

I haven't tried miro yet in my macpup 529 install but I got Hulu Desktop working in it at the moment.

http://hardkap.net/forums/topic/hulu-tv
Thanks ill take a look. I found an app called "tunapie" seems capable of finding fresh usable urls to radio and internet tv broadcasts and playing them.

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#1695 Post by sickgut »

Taking a few days off due to a case of mild burn out. Will take the time off to gather together some freeware .mod/ .mid/ .ogg music and maybe some E-Books and artwork.

If there is anything that is free that you would like included with Pussy DVD then email me on: sickgut@gmail.com and or PM me and ill see about including it.

Spent 9 hours on one silly problem last night while moving my Pussy DVD squashfs files from virtualbox to a real grub bootable OS on my laptop. The network stuff simply didnt work at all and i was sure that i combed though the entire OS and was sure i had boned it beyond repair. Then i realized i just needed to clear out /etc/udev/

I think this kind of thing is like loosing your car keys and frantically spending almost a whole day looking for them when they where tucked between your jeans and underwear because you missed your pocket when you tried to put your keys in your front left trouser pocket. The sign of an over worked stressed person who has started to slip and loose touch.

Ill check back soon and probably be able to provide a url for people to download Pussy DVD

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#1696 Post by sickgut »

re: Pussy Pie server edition lighttpd "bug"

Hi people, after using my Rasp Pi with Pussy Pie server installed i found something that isnt supposed to happen. The lighttpd webserver doesnt list directories and or files in directories, it only displays webpages and so any file you wanna share over the webserver must be directly linked to from the webpage. The behavior that i was aiming for is the webserver being able to serve files immediately once they are uploaded to the /var/www/ dir that lighttpd serves from.

Apparently its just a simple conf file edit and its all sorted. I will sort this out and upload the Pussy Pie server image again rather than provide a patch.

Ill post when this is done.

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sickgut
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#1697 Post by sickgut »

Hi peeps

It looks like this Pussy DVD idea is going to change slightly. After finding myself thinking "i wish i was working on wheezy and not squeeze" way way way too much, i have decided to bite the bullet and go ahead and move this project over to a Debian Wheezy based system instead of sticking with Squeeze. The reason is there is so much more and better versions of good software that is available for Wheezy than there is Squeeze.

Also after the Pussy DVD was made i would go a head and start work on the Wheezy based Pussies so m jumping ahead of the cue and just going to start work on the wheezy base. I think this wont really add much time as most of this was research and i have been keeping a package list on my website of all the new things being added to Pussy DVD, and combine that with the apt/ dpkg status file of the Pussy Xtra, i can combine the 2 here and get Pussy Wheezy up and running.

The gap between the quality of software apps between squeeze and wheezy is just too big, wheezy is just that much better than squeeze. Altho Wheezy isnt the official stable yet, it is frozen... meaning that everything that will be added has been and there is a complete repository available for it and for all basic purposes this is ready to go.

ill keep yall uptodate with the progress of the new Pussy base. I dont know yet if im going to go straight for the Pussy DVD first, then release the smaller ones later or start small and keep adding to make the larger Xtra and DVD distros. I am also considering what to do about the whole 32 bit / 64 bit thing as well.

ill be back soon and let everyone know whats happening

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#1698 Post by sickgut »

seems ive hit a bump in the road.

The debian squeeze live system had its problems but it seems to work just fine once you work out the whole live-rw thing, i was expecting the debian wheezy live system to be much the same but maybe slightly improved... and this would by all accounts be a likely assumption.

However the wheezy live system is so screwed up its hard to imagine using it, for one thing, live-rw is now called persistence....
no big change tho right?

the live system ignores the persistence file if there isnt a file inside it called persistence.conf and in this file is the list of the dirs you want the live system to remember on next boot.

the problem?

this means you will have to manually edit the config file for every dir you add that you want to keep persistent. And no, you cant have the / or /live listed as persistent as this would be too easy.
You cant just save stuff you have to constantly dick around like an idiot.

the other problem?

well this one is only minor but the live persistent system in wheezy doesnt actually work yet. Even tho there is documentation explaining everything and even if you do everything it says and then spend 3 or 4 days on the debian live irc chat support channel asking wtf is the problem, its impossible to get it to work.

Oh, you want persistence? You will need to get the latest iso. You already have the latest iso? then you need to wait longer for another release. Some users have found success using the sid system rather than wheezy.

Now the above situation wouldnt have worried me at all, except all the documentation said it works, it is working, its all fine, there is no issues. It doesnt say that no one in the world has actually got it to work and what annoys me more than all that is the fact i was treated like an absolute idiot on the chat channels because i constantly asked the same question for days and days and days asking for help, while others chatted on the channel, happily ignoring me.

The answer to my question? read the man pages. read the online documentation. And i did this time and time again. It wasnt till the 4th day that the debian live dev that was logged in the whole time and actually knew about the issues finally said.... :oh yeah, well it doesnt work."

why was it so hard to just say that to begin with instead of rtfm all the time? and why have documentation saying it works and have the entire staff tell you time and time again to read the f*** manual, when they all knew that it didnt work to begin with and it has never worked?

Wheezy based Debian live is dead in the water at the moment and Squeeze is just to old to be able to run all the new things that we need to add to it and upgrade it etc.

I will either need to move to a new live base such as Ubuntu... the thought makes me puke on myself and break out in boils of sulfur.
However, the Ubuntu base does use the tried and true method of the old school "casper" system and the iso's themselves can be booted in grub. Nooby would be in heaven and whip out his endless supply of leet bootcodes, and i mean that in the most honest sincere way as well..... seriously, using an Ubuntu live base would introduce all the sweet booting stuff that we would never have even considered using in Pussy. The only problem is Ubuntu is a bloated mess but the server stuff isnt as reliable as debian but the desktop stuff and new software selection is way better.

At the moment i am weighing up the options: stick with a Wheezy Live base and use Pussies own squashfs remastering scripts in the catroll-panel as the only source of persistence (USB and HDD installs will function fine but there would be zero persistence with live CDROM or DVD).

or

Use an Ubuntu live base. Ubuntu works the same way with the whole apt-get thing and there are many similarities under the hood but we will be sacrificing a noticeable amount of performance with RAM usage and disk size. However, this will bring alot of the bleedng edge features to Pussy, thus bringing Pussy into the same league as any leet desktop bling system on the planet.

Both options make me sick to the gut. Time for sickgut to choose the least sicker of the sick things that makes sickguts gut sick.

if you would like to have your say about preference here then please have your say. Sickgut would be pleased with any feedback at all. OMG im referring to myself in the 3rd person again, i think the absolute crapness of the current debian live thing has spawned yet another new personality.

rokytnji
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#1699 Post by rokytnji »

I will either need to move to a new live base such as Ubuntu... the thought makes me puke on myself and break out in boils of sulfur.
Don't know if you wanna learn a new dance.

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live ... t3746.html

http://antix.freeforums.org/antix-12-se ... t3829.html

$ inxi -r
Repos: Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/antix.list
deb http://www.daveserver.info/antiX/debs testing base main
deb http://debs.slavino.sk testing main
Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
deb http://ftp.gr.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free

Just comment out daveserver and slavinko or delete those lines and remaster a live antix instead with persistence using only the debian repos.
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:twisted:

Maybe disregard this post :roll: I just noticed that.
Last edited by rokytnji on Thu 08 Nov 2012, 15:05, edited 2 times in total.

nooby
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#1700 Post by nooby »

Thanks Sickgut!
"Nooby would be in heaven and whip out his endless supply
of leet bootcodes, and i mean that in the most honest sincere way
as well..... seriously, " ...

They are not really my cheat codes I just "borrow" them from two other guys.

forgot name but something D4P or similar user name. He and the other fellow
had some 145 linux distros on external USB harddisk and they described it
on their homepages and I suddenly out of accident tested to simplify the code
by testing word for word to see what did happen and one version of my
cheat actually booted and I found several Ubuntu variations that also booted

but then I got too cocky and bragged about it on Ubuntu forum and
most likely they realized my cheat could be used for to be almost as root
and they hate such so they changed something internally and only those
Ubuntu iso that is from 2011 or 2010 will work and not all of them either
but a handful.

So good luck with your experiments. I would test out what Rokytnji suggest
anti and his buddy has done something very good with AntiX so if
the Ubuntu thing fails for you give AntiX a try.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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