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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2407
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 16 Oct 2012, 18:47    Post subject:  

I think Openoffice has been sidelined and is not developed the way it used to be. Libreoffice seems quite variable from release to release in my opinion, and I feel a lack of confidence in it's consistency and compatibility (although I don't have any specific examples to offer at the moment..)

My personal choice would be to use Textmaker 2008 (part of the free Softmaker 2008 package that Barry got hold of) and add docx support (even if it is read only that would be better than nothing).

Some versions of Abiword are supposed to be docx capable but I've had little success.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 16 Oct 2012, 19:36    Post subject:  

aaaarrrgh

I wasted a whole morning trying to upgrade Pussy DVD to the newest Seamonkey and Java but couldnt get Seamonkey to detect Java or run Java on websites (runescape.com and keepvid.com are a good test)

but apparently newest Seamonkey isnt compatible with Sun/ Oracle Java 7 and above, i found this info on the Seamonkey site. I hope this isnt a general Mozilla browser kinda thing as ill try Firefox as the new cleanmode browser.

If worst comes to worst then ill just have to keep the current Seamonkey and Java verisons.

Does anyone have any comments as to any recent incompatibilities the older Java has with new software? I didnt notice any but like i keep saying, i dont use a computer in the way normal people do so i dont know whats popular etc.

the combination of new seamonkey with old java doesnt work either, also the new java and old seamonkey. Arrrrgh!!!
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2012, 18:39    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
I think Openoffice has been sidelined and is not developed the way it used to be. Libreoffice seems quite variable from release to release in my opinion, and I feel a lack of confidence in it's consistency and compatibility (although I don't have any specific examples to offer at the moment..)

My personal choice would be to use Textmaker 2008 (part of the free Softmaker 2008 package that Barry got hold of) and add docx support (even if it is read only that would be better than nothing).

Some versions of Abiword are supposed to be docx capable but I've had little success.


thanks for filling me in. Ill look for a docx plugin for abiword and or the other few office packages that have been installed so far.

The OpenOffice in Pussy that is already there may or may not be replaced with anything newer as im still experimentng. There are a few pluses for having an official debian openoffice package (however this will be a little out of date) namely seamless intergration into OS as a whole, especially if openoffice plugins for firefox and other browsers is included. The slightly newer OpenOffice that is included in Pussy currently (from Pussy Xtra) is a static install that isnt so seamlessly working with everything else automatically. Here we have the 2 sides of the coin most common with 100% debian based OSes, either have newer static installed packages that are a little more fiddly, or have older out of date packages that have been tested to work very well....

At the moment i am leaning toward having the koffice and goffice and abiword type stuff from debian handle everything automatically with browser plugins and other type stuff but also have a libre or newer openoffice statically installed but kinda disconnected from the rest of the OS.

[edit: have added a packaged called "tea", it can open and manipulated MS Docx files as well as most others. Have not found an Abiword plugin for Docx yet]

[edit #2: just checked, the Open Office 3 that is already in Pussy Xtra and therefore Pussy DVD will inherit it also has Docx support, but i am looking for text maker to see if there is a neat package i can use]
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2012, 21:50    Post subject:  

re: java and browsers

There is alot of room left in the DVD iso and this lets us do things not usually considered in an OS.

The current situation like being caught between a rock and a hard place, but there are a few points i wanna make clear so that yall are up to speed:

1) New Seamonkey doesnt work with new version 7 Java, nor does new Seamonkey work with old Java or old Seamonkey with new Java. The current cleanmode browser of a Seamonkey that is fairly old coupled with the not so up to date Java does work however so this will be left as is. Cleanmode browser that is basicly an auto unzipping static package that creates links to the static installed Java will be kept at their current versions.

2) the only Debian Squeeze Java packages from the Debian repos (Pussy is based on Debian) is very old, much older than the static Java that cleanmode Seamonkey uses. This will work flawlessly with the older browsers that have been installed from the Debian repos. These cant be tricked easily into using the staticly installed version of java that the cleanmode Seamonkey uses.

3) its possible to have the best of both worlds, cleanmode Seamonkey using its own version of statically install Java that is disconnected from the rest of the OS, and Debian repo installed browsers using the older Java that is available from the Debian repos.

4) This still doesnt give us a combination of the latest browser and the latest version of Java. However, the cleanmode seamonkey setup has its own squashfs file, this allows for it to be easily changed without having to download the entire OS again.

The best way to navigate through these problems (in my opinion) is to keep the cleanmode Seamonkey and its statically installed Java (the Java seamonkey links to is in /xtra/java) unchanged but to also install the official older Debian Squeeze version of Java so that the browsers installed from the same Debian Squeeze repos uses the older Java with no further config needed. However the Java executables that link to (or from depends how you look at it) /usr/bin/ will be linked to the newer static installed Java not the native Debian one so that Java apps run locally that dont use a web browser are running on the slightly newer version than the official Debian Squeeze version.

This problem of the lack of an up to date browser running an up to date Java will only be temporary because as soon as the compatibility between the new browser and new Java is solved, a new seamonkey.squashfs will be released, providing an easy upgrade so the user doesnt have to download the entire OS again. However the Pussy iso will be updated to include the new squashfs as well.

in the meantime tho, we are screwed Sad

[edit: anyone work around is to make Pussy a Squeeze/ Wheezy hybrid, there is a Java version 7 (reasonably new) in Wheezy and much newer browsers. This would work but it would make Pussy a little harder to support when Pussy users goto a Debian chat channel to get support. No one will touch a hybrid of the two versions.]
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1281
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2012, 22:36    Post subject:  

I don't know if this will work in pussy for you or not sickgut.

The 2 ways I install java in Debian.

One way

http://antix.freeforums.org/how-i-installed-jre1-7-0-07-in-antix-12-t3892.html

Another way



http://www.duinsoft.nl/packages.php

Good luck with it.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2012, 23:24    Post subject:  

re: browsers and latest java. I just tested firefox with java 7 and it works. Ill make the new firefox as the new cleanmode browser.

now to find the best way to install java 7 into Pussy. The post before this one has a way that will tie it in with the apt-get/ dpkg system, ill get this to work if i can. It would be best not to have to worry about static and official debian separate installs
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct 2012, 23:55    Post subject:  

rokytnji wrote:
I don't know if this will work in pussy for you or not sickgut.

The 2 ways I install java in Debian.

One way

http://antix.freeforums.org/how-i-installed-jre1-7-0-07-in-antix-12-t3892.html

Another way



http://www.duinsoft.nl/packages.php

Good luck with it.


Thanks the duinsoft.nl way does indeed install the newest java and in a way that the rest of the OS can see it. However this is only the JRE version, the runtime for executing Java... that is fine but i am going to install the JDK which includes the JRE and the deveopment stuff as well.

To do this i will first install the duinsoft way and then download and place the Java JDK from the sun/ orcale site in /xtra/java. Then i will remove the JRE portion of the JDK (/xtra/java/jre/) and then create a link from the /opt/java/32/jre7.xxx/ to /xtra/java/jre/ and this should make everything work fine. Java developers needing to compile Java apps simply need to know that the java development stuff is in /xtra/java and for every other use no one will care because it will all work seamlessly.

The new cleanmode browser setup will make firefox link to the java in /opt/java/32/jre7.xxx/ instead of /xtra/java

Thankyou rokytnji.... that was extremely helpful
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atv


Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Location: Tambo, Ecuador

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 01:55    Post subject:  

Hi sickgut and others,
Sickgut wrote:
Quote:
Just to bump the thread, and to show how many packages so far have been added to Pussy DVD (only a little more than half full at present) and to give everyone an idea of what is being added just for the hell of it, here is the current list of packages added so far.... any comments are welcome.

That is a very impressive list indeed! but I noticed no video player, I happen to like VLC. what do you think?

Regards, Andres
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 02:29    Post subject:  

atv wrote:
Hi sickgut and others,
Sickgut wrote:
Quote:
Just to bump the thread, and to show how many packages so far have been added to Pussy DVD (only a little more than half full at present) and to give everyone an idea of what is being added just for the hell of it, here is the current list of packages added so far.... any comments are welcome.

That is a very impressive list indeed! but I noticed no video player, I happen to like VLC. what do you think?

Regards, Andres


an updated package list can be found at:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/pussy-dvd-package-list.txt

alot more has been added since that previous post.

There is VLC, gxine and Mplayer and i think one or 2 minor ones...

Note that this list isnt the entire list of the Pussy DVD OS, but the packages added to the previously released Pussy-Xtra that will in total make the new DVD sized OS. The Pussy Xtra is fairly jam packed with stuff for its 640mb size.

The Pussy DVD OS should be ready for release in maybe a week or so, i think i have added 3/4 of the actual programs but all the stuff for the custom menus is going to be quite labor intensive as some of the JWM menus are so large that they kinda run out of the borders of the screen. Not only am i going to need to separate the app menus better, but in some case I may have to have added subsections.

eg... instead of meow?-> Pussy -> games -> action games

im probably going to need to add something like:

meow?-> Pussy -> games -> action games -> games starting with A
-> games staring with B
-> games starting with C

This may be a tad of an overstatement / exaggeration but you get the point. Meow? is the equivalent of the Windows "start" button. I forgot what Puppy calls this.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 19 Oct 2012, 05:09    Post subject:  

Finally, the additions once squashed equal 3.2GB. Add to this the 640mb of the Pussy Xtra ISO and we are almost in the ball park, leaving a few hundred MB for general customization and the addition of an app here and there.

Today i start work on the custom JWM menus and once that has finished ill upload the new ISO so that it can be tested and configured or changed further before the second and final release.

Then the Pussy Xtra will get a working over. This final Deban Squeeze based release will make it full Beta, not a preview. I will also pay for advertising on Distrowatch. The only thing about promoting Pussy globally that i am a little disappointed with and may hurt Pussies popularity is there is no easy newbie level walk through for HDD installs. Everything else i think we have nailed, and nailed it very well.

For those of you concerned about the visual GUI aspects of the OS, dont worry. It will be tidied up before i start promoting Pussy aggressively. Also every currently discovered bug fix will be applied.

For those of you concerned about dropping the Pussy Base version from the line up, i am not adverse to the idea of opening it all up for a community project, but right now i see it as the least popular and therefore making least impact in people lives and the upkeep required on my part is just too much. This is further complicated by the fact that the original multi squashfs filesystem while sounding good on paper increased the workload 3 fold and will be dropped in favour of a single squashfs file system but leaving it all open for multi squashfs down the line to allow quick and easy bug fix patches and possibley the cleanmode browser version updating. Note that Java JRE and Flash may find their way into the cleanmode browser updates. Because the Base version cant really exist unless it is all divided up into multiple "steps" of squashfs, this is another reason why i am seeing the base version as impractical.

These revisions to Pussy will be the final for the Debian Squeeze base as by the time enough time has passed to make some of the things included in Pussy to go out of date, Debian Wheezy will become the new stable and a newer Pussy based on Wheezy will be created in both (i am hoping) 32 and 64 bit keeping the server, Pussy Xtra (may be renamed to just Pussy and the Pussy DVD, may be renamed to Pussy Xtra). As far as i can tell separated 32 and 64 bit linux versions are still required to cover all bases but hybrid 32 and 64 bit linux existing in the one kernel may work with Wheezy rather soonish and I hope this happens as this will put linux on par with Windows XP/ Vista/ 7 64 bit OSes and it will halve the future workload on my part.

At some point the current Squeeze versions of Pussy may have a patch released for them that contains an apt-get update (note this s not a dist-update but rather just updating the packages to the newest possible version without changing the kernel). This will only add 50mb or so to the size of Pussy Xtra and 85 or so to Pussy DVD and both ISOs have room for that extra data. This may breed new life into Squeeze based Pussy once Squeeze is no longer the current stable.

I am currently working on the internet TV application for Pussy then i will start the JWM menus, then upload the first revision for Pussy DVD.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 19 Oct 2012, 22:29    Post subject:  

re: main office suite for Pussy DVD

The Openoffice installed statically in /xtra/openoffice (version 3) is being replaced by LibreOffice 3.6.2 and it will be install statically in a very similar way. The new LibreOffice is only 160mb or so while the OpenOffice is over 300mb.

The desktop icon for "office" will remain the same, and oo, openoffice, open-office, office ... commands at the terminal will also launch the new LibreOffice as well as libreoffice, libre, loffice, lo
There will be scripts of these names placed in /usr/bin that all run the same executable that runs LibreOffice.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012, 02:10    Post subject:  

re: WebTV

I have tried time and time again to get freetuxtv working in Pussy but it needs a gtk environment that cant be installed on debian squeeze without upgrading the whole thing to wheezy.

Gxine and other players have media lists built in but surprize surprize... none of them work.
Maybe i dont need to installed specific WebTV client, rather just need an uptodate list of available channels with their URL and other info if needed.

Im determined to get this working as i saw it in Puppy a while ago and it blew my mind. My Virtual box doesnt want to run Slacko so im having trouble determining what app is used in the new Puppies for this.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1281
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012, 02:26    Post subject:  

Just some stuff I run sickgut.

http://www.getmiro.com/

http://www.hulu.com/labs/hulu-desktop

I haven't tried miro yet in my macpup 529 install but I got Hulu Desktop working in it at the moment.

http://hardkap.net/forums/topic/hulu-tv
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012, 03:52    Post subject:  

rokytnji wrote:
Just some stuff I run sickgut.

http://www.getmiro.com/

http://www.hulu.com/labs/hulu-desktop

I haven't tried miro yet in my macpup 529 install but I got Hulu Desktop working in it at the moment.

http://hardkap.net/forums/topic/hulu-tv


Thanks ill take a look. I found an app called "tunapie" seems capable of finding fresh usable urls to radio and internet tv broadcasts and playing them.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sat 20 Oct 2012, 19:53    Post subject:  

Taking a few days off due to a case of mild burn out. Will take the time off to gather together some freeware .mod/ .mid/ .ogg music and maybe some E-Books and artwork.

If there is anything that is free that you would like included with Pussy DVD then email me on: sickgut@gmail.com and or PM me and ill see about including it.

Spent 9 hours on one silly problem last night while moving my Pussy DVD squashfs files from virtualbox to a real grub bootable OS on my laptop. The network stuff simply didnt work at all and i was sure that i combed though the entire OS and was sure i had boned it beyond repair. Then i realized i just needed to clear out /etc/udev/

I think this kind of thing is like loosing your car keys and frantically spending almost a whole day looking for them when they where tucked between your jeans and underwear because you missed your pocket when you tried to put your keys in your front left trouser pocket. The sign of an over worked stressed person who has started to slip and loose touch.

Ill check back soon and probably be able to provide a url for people to download Pussy DVD
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