Lucid Puppy 5.2.8 - Updated ISO Version 005 - APR 05 2012

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otropogo
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#1761 Post by otropogo »

bigpup wrote:
otropogo wrote:
bigpup wrote:otropogo,

What is the model of your Toshiba laptop?
Satellite A500 -02F
At Toshiba support I could not find a listing for A500-02F
That's the model name given on the base of the laptop. It was also advertised as such by a number of retailers, now probably two or three years old...
They have A500-ST5601 thru ST5608 and a bunch of other ST numbers.
However all A500-models seem to have same basic specs.
By Toshiba's spec sheet on this computer you have:
4 USB V2.0 ports
3 V2.0
1 v2.0 eSATA/USB combo port with USB sleep and charge.
There are only two USB ports, both V2.0. Don't know about eSATA/USB.

So, I assume you are using a USB v3.0 add on hub and I hope it is self powering.
I also assume this USB v3.0 add on hub is designed to hook to USB V2.0 and give USB V3.0 access.

First I would make sure you are not connecting to this USB combo port.


For testing I would only have one USB drive hooked up.
I'm connecting my USB3.0 drives through a two port USB3.0 PCI-expressbus adapter. And I've been "testing" and reporting lupu problems with USB3.0 support for many months now, and have tested every conceivable way.

The USB3.0 issues I described don't appear under Slacko, nor other Linux distros, nor in Windows7.

This works sometimes does not work sometimes is hard to debug.

One thought is power output from USB port could cause issues with non self powered devices.
Being a laptop, not sure how power is feed to ports and how much a device needs.
I anticipated this problem from studying specs and reviews of USB3.0 adapters and drives, and so made sure that both the PCI-expressbus adapter and the USB drives I bought have their own power supply. It's a fairly trivial problem to overcome, but unfortunately this product line has been very poorly professionally reviewed. It's essential to buy an expresscard adapter that has a separate power jack. Such adapters generally come with a USB power cable which gets power from one of the laptop's existing USB2.0 ports - a horrible kludge. Sometimes the only hint of this is when the product description warns that the laptop must have an available USB2.0 port.

Some such adapters come with two ports but no power jack, so one USB3.0 port has to be sacrificed to bringing extra power from a USB2.0 port! Apparently there are even adapters that have only one USB3.0 port and no power jack. In that case, if the device demands more power than the expresscard adapter can supply, it won't work reliably. Specs on these power supply issues aren't generally available.

However, if the adapter has the jack, it's a simple matter to get an AC/DC adapter with 5V output and a standard USB2.0 jack to power it. Larger drives, like my 3TB Goflex should (and do) have their own AC power adapter.

In any case, lack of power isn't an issue in the issues I described.
I have sometimes seen problems with Pmount not working so good. No clue why. I have had to do a complete power off reboot to fix. Seems to me Pmount does not adjust to changes very well. What it sees on initial boot is what it wants to see all the time.
Pmount has gone badly downhill since Puppy 2xx and 3xxx. MUT used to show the swap file, but no longer. Now pmount often can't tell the size of a partition and gets it outrageously wrong , and as described above, can't display some storage devices at all, even though they're iconized on the desktop and can be accessed via the icon. Having two burners on the system often confuses it very badly too.

The ntfs read-only problem is the most maddening though, being totally unpredictable, and existing only in lupu, and only with USB storage devices, so far as I've seen. Other linux distros either don't support ntfs-3g at all (no driver - such as Centos), or support ntfs read-only all the time, and on all storage devices, whether internal hard drive partitions or USB devices. In the case of Centos, it's simply a matter of installing the current ntfs-3g package to fix the problem.

The problem with lupu 528 seems to be simply a defective bundled ntfs-3g module, and the lack of a pet for the newer version that actually works.

The defects of the USB3.0 driver are certainly annoying, but one can live with them with proper care and planning (don't ever jiggle the expresscard adapter, for instance, and always remember to have your adapter and drives connected and powered up when booting Lupu). The ntfs read-only problem is a disaster by comparison. It's far easier and more effective to shut down Lupu and boot into Windows to do a large USB3.0 file transfer than to try it with Lupu.
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otropogo
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#1762 Post by otropogo »

playdayz wrote:...

...

If you uninstall ntfs-3g you would get the one in the sfs--not sure if it is the same--leave it alone if it is working. Same with gparted.

Did I mention you should backup the save file before doing anything! Menu -> Utility -> PupSave Hot Backup will do it.
Thanks for your help. I did backup my 2fs file initially, and will now do so more frequently, given the hot backup function.

Unfortunately, neither my ntfs-3g driver nor the USB3.0 driver are working properly, especially not the former (as described in my reply to Bigpup below). I've been hoping for a new pet for both. I know the more recent ntfs driver, circa 2011, works well, as I've installed it in Centos.
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#1763 Post by bigpup »

otropogo,

Thanks for the detailed info about your problem with USB3 and NTFS.
We have a much better understanding of what is going on.
Explaining what you see, so we totally understand, is the hard step in troubleshooting problems.

Driver issues are in Playdayz control.
Knowing it works in Slacko is a big clue. Playdayz knows more than anyone else what that indicates.

Compared Slacko to Lupu.
These files are in Slacko5.3 but not in Lupu528.005.
Location /bin

ntfscat
ntfscluster
ntfscmp
ntfsfix
ntfsinfo
ntfsls

Are they needed for proper ntfs support????
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
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otropogo
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#1764 Post by otropogo »

bigpup wrote:...
Compared Slacko to Lupu.
These files are in Slacko5.3 but not in Lupu528.005.
Location /bin

ntfscat
ntfscluster
ntfscmp
ntfsfix
ntfsinfo
ntfsls

...
There must also be some sort of USB3.0 driver included, at least in Slacko 5.29.6, with which I was able to access the USB3.0 drives least problematically (hot plugging remained an issue, IIRC), as I didn't need to install the USB3.0 pet as I had to with lupu.
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playdayz
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#1765 Post by playdayz »

The USB3.0 issues I described don't appear under Slacko, nor other Linux distros, nor in Windows7.
I don't think usb 3.0 even existed when Lupu was created, so it doesn't surprise me there are problems. tempestuous knows far more than I do about kernel mode drivers for the 2.6.33.2 kernel in Lupu, and if his driver doesn't work it is certainly over my head http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 853#453853

I am unable to recreate the problem with NTFS, at least as I understand it. I have an NTFS usb drive and everything works as it should, read and write, no problem.

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#1766 Post by otropogo »

playdayz wrote:...

I am unable to recreate the problem with NTFS, at least as I understand it. I have an NTFS usb drive and everything works as it should, read and write, no problem. Does the problem arise when you are trying to use usb 3.0 with an NTFS drive?
Yes. But intermittently (most of the time, unfortunately). However, it also occurs when using the same USB drives on the USB2.0 port. The only other detail that might possibly be relevant is that both drives are Seagates.

Which ntfs-3g driver was bundled in Slacko 5.29.6 and which is included in lupupluslibre-02?

Will try to do some further testing with lupupluslibre in the next while...
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playdayz
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#1767 Post by playdayz »

However, it also occurs when using the same USB drives on the USB2.0 port. The only other detail that might possibly be relevant is that both drives are Seagates.
Are you certain that these drives are being defragged? Are you using a defrag program such as O&O Defrag--free trial available I think. I noticed tempestuous mentioned that also. i would not rely on anything Windows is doing automatically.

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#1768 Post by bigpup »

For general info
The version of NTFS-3G that is in Lupu528.005 is ntfs-3g 2010.3.6
Has been a lot of updates since this one.
You can see them here:
http://www.tuxera.com/community/release-history/
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otropogo
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#1769 Post by otropogo »

playdayz wrote:
However, it also occurs when using the same USB drives on the USB2.0 port. The only other detail that might possibly be relevant is that both drives are Seagates.
Are you certain that these drives are being defragged? Are you using a defrag program such as O&O Defrag--free trial available I think. I noticed tempestuous mentioned that also. i would not rely on anything Windows is doing automatically.
If the issue were fragmentation, it should be as much a problem in Centos, Windows7, and Slacko as it is in Lupu, surely...

In any case, these drives are barely used. And only to make very occasional backups.

They're not used in web browsing at all, and only a small fraction of the surface area has ever been written. I don't see any possibility of fragmentation...
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#1770 Post by otropogo »

bigpup wrote:For general info
The version of NTFS-3G that is in Lupu528.005 is ntfs-3g 2010.3.6
Has been a lot of updates since this one.
You can see them here:
http://www.tuxera.com/community/release-history/
Thanks,

Unfortunately, it's the same one found in the original 528. What's needed is the 2011.4.12 version, IIRC. I've tried to install this one via a deb package, but failed to get it to work. I believe that's the one I've got running in Centos.
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#1771 Post by bigpup »

Slacko 5.3 has this version of ntfs-3g 2011.1.15

Maybe just replace the one in Lucid528 with this one from Slacko.
Do not know if change would stay (after reboot) if using a frugal install.

The latest version you can get from here, but will have to compile it.
http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-download/
Last edited by bigpup on Mon 30 Apr 2012, 20:07, edited 2 times in total.
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outtaspam
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WiFi Setup scan freezes

#1772 Post by outtaspam »

Hi Folks,

I tried LupuLibre 5.28 on my HP VL420 Pentium 4 PC w ~700 Mb RAM. To my surprise it ran acceptably despite the size of Libre Office - well done :-)

This old PC has an RTL 8185 WiFi card which has stubbornly defeated my attempts to connect to the internet. When I try to connect through WiFi, the notice box pops up stating "Scanning for Networks" and then nothing happens. The keyboard and the mouse are frozen and the machine does nothing for at least 15 minutes. I waited that long before manually powering off.

This freezing while scanning for WiFi is not limited to Lupu, it has happened with Slacko and even some 4x Puppy derivatives.

The WiFi connection does work in Windows XP, connecting with WPA security.

LupuLibre is so good that I want to switch over but can't bear to be without the internet connection.

Can you help me?

Thanks,
Gus (aka outtaspam)

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rcrsn51
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#1773 Post by rcrsn51 »

RTL 8185 WiFi card
Run the command "lspci -nn" and locate the [vendor : product] ID codes for this device.

Run "lsmod". What rtl module is being loaded?
Last edited by rcrsn51 on Mon 30 Apr 2012, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.

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#1774 Post by bigpup »

outtaspam,

Try the info you will find here:
go to menu->help->LupuNews Help

This is the same thing as a web page
http://diddywahdiddy.net/LupuNews/index4.html

There is also a link to more drivers for wifi devices.
A link to a guide on setting up wifi.
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rerwin
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Broadcom driver control fix

#1775 Post by rerwin »

playdayz, et al,
In response to zekebaby's report in the upup-precise thread that upup-precise would not switch to the open-source broadcom wifi driver, I fixed a bug in the script that triggers the switch. It is in the attached "patch-8c" package.

Although its name implies a delta from patch-8, it is also a delta from the lupuplus ISOs, so can be installed in them, too.

The problem is seen only if the user has never blacklisted a module with the BootManager. The fix takes care of that.
Richard
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fixes broadcom issue
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playdayz
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#1776 Post by playdayz »

LupuLibre is so good that I want to switch over but can't bear to be without the internet connection.
Maybe FatSlacko http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=77951 and maybe add lupufy-slacko

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#1777 Post by otropogo »

bigpup wrote:Slacko 5.3 has this version of ntfs-3g 2011.1.15

Maybe just replace the one in Lucid528 with this one from Slacko.
Do not know if change would stay (after reboot) if using a frugal install.

The latest version you can get from here, but will have to compile it.
http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-download/
Is there a pet for the slacko version? I'm still running linux exclusively from a LiveCD/DVD/USBstick boot.

I'm afraid compiling is beyond my current skill level and not even on my horizon...
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lupupluslibre-002 ntfs and usb3.0 update

#1778 Post by otropogo »

After further testing with my Goflex 3TB USB 3.0 drive on a 2-port Sabrent USB3.0 expresscard adapter, I have some good news, and some not so good.

1. Lupupluslibre-002 supports USB3.0 without need for the USB3.0 pet required by lupu5.2.8.

2. unlike the pet driver, the lpl-2 usb driver seems to consistently support hot plugging (although only time will tell), at least of the hard drive (I didn't try hot-plugging the expresscard).

With a pfix=ram boot of lpl-2 the Goflex drive appeared on the desktop, and I was able to unmount it, move it to the other USB 3.0 port, and remount it again. Subsequently, I was also able to do this after booting with my existing 2fs file from lupu528, and then uninstalled the driver pet without loss of function. There may even be a slight improvement of function (see the bad news below)

3. Before running lpl-2 on the laptop, I ran a series of tests of ntfs and usb3/2 functionality under lupu 5.2.8 (patch 02) with the USB driver. I only did three runs of each test (unmounting and remounting the drive between tests), so the results are misleadingly uniform.

a) test on the first USB3.0 port, ntfs read only (x3)
b) test on the second USB3.0 port, ntfs read only (x3)
c) test on one of the USB2 ports, ntfs read only (x3)

4. After renaming the old lupu_528.sfs file and backing up the 2fs files, I booted lpl-2 first in pfix=ram mode, and subsequently with the main 2fs file. The latter was more difficult than expected, because somehow extra copies were created in numbered directories ofthe old lupu_528.sfs, and they had to be found and cleared out.

I thought all my ntfs problems were solved initially because the pfix=ram boot allowed me read/write access to the USB3.0 drive twice in a row. But this proved to be just another instance of intermittent working. However, I did have better averages with the 2fs file also (well, what could be worse than 0/9?), after uninstalling the USB3.0 pet, so maybe there was some interference.

So, the USB3.0 issue seems resolved, but the ntfs issue remains, at least where lupu and my hardware are concerned.
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#1779 Post by cthisbear »

outtaspam:

See my 5th post on the previous page

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... start=1755

Use Frisbee >>
Change the >> Ap_scan Parameter from 1 to >> 2

Worked for me...and and easy thing to try.

Chris.

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playdayz
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#1780 Post by playdayz »

So, the USB3.0 issue seems resolved, but the ntfs issue remains, at least where lupu and my hardware are concerned.
That is some good news. I believe the xhci driver is already in Lupu plus.

I should have mentioned that I have compiled the latest ntfs-3g driver, 2012.1.15 think, but it gives an error on every write operation, copy, rename, move. etc. I have tried other ntfs-3g drivers and gotten the same problem.

However, i think this is the original ntfs-3g from Lucid--who knows--it might be worth a try--but I am not hopeful. No one should use this if their ntfs is already working to their satisfaction.

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