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Lucid Puppy 5.2.8 - Updated ISO Version 005 - APR 05 2012
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 15:40    Post subject: lupupluslibre-02 and aps installed in lupu.2fs  

Have just burned lupupluslibre-02 to disk, and am trying to reconfigure my system. I took the precaution of renaming my 528.sfs file on the hard drive and of booting pfix=ram to get a basic config.

Monitor setup went very poorly. After adjusting it with great difficulty (xorg wants to give me a strange 2xxxby7xxx display), I saved a readable configuration to 2fs, then booted with it, only to have to do it all again with xorgwizard. After backing up my existing lupu 2fs file, and saving the new 528.sfs to the hard drive, I rebooted with the disk and my main lupu.2fs file.

The monitor display worked fine then (probably because I have the driver for my Radeon-ATI card installed), and sso did everything else I've tried so far (not much - gimp 2.6, ufraw, rawstudio, gxine for videos, xfprot2.4, Seamonkey 2.9, and Firefox - which immediately went online to upgrade to v. 12 - I keep it only for youtubedownloader, which won't mesh with Seamonkey).

Now I'm wondering about possible conflicts or redundancies between what I have installed via the 2fs file and what is already bundled in the 528.sfs. Can anyone explain how that sorts itself out? For example, I'd like to have the option of saving my 2fs file without having to reboot twice, but I don't see an icon on my display for that...

For example, what would happen if I used pet manager to uninstall the following?

Seamonkey-2.2-lucid525 (2x!- have 2.9 running now)
gimp_full 2.6.11-i486.squeeze
Firefox-6.0-lucid525 (have v12 running now)
Instant_Update-Lucid528-002
Xorg_High-1.1-Lucid
gparted-0.6.2-lucid52
pburn-3.4.3
ntfs-3g_2010.3.6
pburn-3.5.0 (have 3.5.1 installed now)

Are some of these just ghosts left by packet manager, or are they needlessly taking up space in my 2fs file?

Are any blocking more recent versions provided natively by lupupluslibre?

Would removing the obviously superseded ones (the two browsers, notably) also remove or cripple the current installed versions?

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5237
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 16:32    Post subject:  

otropogo wrote:
bigpup wrote:
otropogo,

What is the model of your Toshiba laptop?


Satellite A500 -02F

At Toshiba support I could not find a listing for A500-02F
They have A500-ST5601 thru ST5608 and a bunch of other ST numbers.
However all A500-models seem to have same basic specs.
By Toshiba's spec sheet on this computer you have:
4 USB V2.0 ports
3 V2.0
1 v2.0 eSATA/USB combo port with USB sleep and charge.

So, I assume you are using a USB v3.0 add on hub and I hope it is self powering.
I also assume this USB v3.0 add on hub is designed to hook to USB V2.0 and give USB V3.0 access.

First I would make sure you are not connecting to this USB combo port.
For testing I would only have one USB drive hooked up.

This works sometimes does not work sometimes is hard to debug.

One thought is power output from USB port could cause issues with non self powered devices.
Being a laptop, not sure how power is feed to ports and how much a device needs.

I have sometimes seen problems with Pmount not working so good. No clue why. I have had to do a complete power off reboot to fix. Seems to me Pmount does not adjust to changes very well. What it sees on initial boot is what it wants to see all the time.

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jim3630


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 792
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 16:33    Post subject:  

LupuPlusLibre 5.2.8.005-2 installed pfix=ram to ext4 hdd on dual p6100 hp laptop.
broadcom wifi auto-detected by sns on wan0 connection made without issue.

display resized with first run xorgwizard without issue. Xorg_High pet installed with glxgears smooth
even with expanded window. flash get insalled lattest without issue.
ff installed without issue. sound vidio movies all work well.

continue to enjoy 528's ability to show full screen display on the laptop
and ext connected monitor simultaneously.
528 series is the only puppy have tried can do it.

Playdayz et al. thanks for all the hard work again!
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 16:55    Post subject:  

Quote:
Seamonkey-2.2-lucid525 (2x!- have 2.9 running now)
gimp_full 2.6.11-i486.squeeze
Firefox-6.0-lucid525 (have v12 running now)
Instant_Update-Lucid528-002
Xorg_High-1.1-Lucid
gparted-0.6.2-lucid52
pburn-3.4.3
ntfs-3g_2010.3.6
pburn-3.5.0 (have 3.5.1 installed now)

Are some of these just ghosts left by packet manager, or are they needlessly taking up space in my 2fs file?


Backup your save file before doing anything.

If you uninstall SM 2.2 then 2.9 will quit working.
if things are working OK I would leave them alone. What happens as with SM is that the newer one that you install as a pet overwrites files from the older one, so you are not losing any space. But if you uninstall the older one it will take the newer files with it. The same would happen with Firefox.

The latest Pburn 3.5.2 is in the new sfs so you probably can uninstall Pburn 3.5.1. Actually, if you start Pburn and 3.5.1 starts then you will need to uninstall that to get 3.5.2. The Instant Update is now in the sfs also. You still need Xorg_High, that is not in the sfs. Gimp is also not in the sfs. If you uninstall ntfs-3g you would get the one in the sfs--not sure if it is the same--leave it alone if it is working. Same with gparted.

Did I mention you should backup the save file before doing anything! Menu -> Utility -> PupSave Hot Backup will do it.

I *think* we have removed any ghosts from the remaster.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Firefox 3.6.28!

Firefox keeps this available and updated to some extent--it has a 2012 copyright. I thought it might be fun.

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/Firefox-3.6.28-Lucid.pet

v.3.6.28, released March 13th, 2012 https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/3.6.28/releasenotes/

It's smaller but smaller is not necessarily faster Wink

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just added this to the first page of this thread

Which one do I use? If you are new to Lupu then Lupu Plus or Lupu Plus Libre will probably give you the best odds of everything working out of the box.

So why keep original Lupu? Because it's very frustrating to update and find that something that has been working stops working. So previous users for whom Lupu has been working well can update to Lupu 005 and nothing will change because basically only the programs have been updated--nothing under the hood. But for newbies...like it says....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seamonkey 2.9

ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pet_packages-lucid/Seamonkey-2.9-Lucid.pet
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3433
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 29 Apr 2012, 23:19    Post subject:  

lupupluslibre-01

" cthisbear wrote:
Three-Headed Dog Version 5.2.8.005

I had a quick boot on the Dell Studio XPS.

No wireless....Broadcom b43.
Nothing shows at all.""

"""""

rerwin

" Chris,
Please reboot and you should see wireless as detected by b43

On the initial boot, the proprietary driver, wl, is used.

If it generates an error message in the log,
the subsequent boot should try b43.

This assumes playdayz included my latest Broadcom components
as in the other 005s.
I have not checked on what he included in 3HD.

Richard"

rerwin ...Sadly no show with a reboot and save.

:::::::::

So I tried version 2.
lupupluslibre-02

Screen 1280 x 720
Sound works.

Wireless >> b43 listed.
Sees the networks after running Network Wizard.

Configure with the Network wizard.
Then scan for wireless. ... Hidden network shows
Set SID and Password
Save >> Use >> but it errors.

I rebooted with a small save file.

Returns the same error..........

Boot another puppy...delete save file

Reboot fresh > lupupluslibre-02

Go to >> menu >> Internet

>> Install Frisbee

Run Frisbee....sees network but errors after
adding my profile and password.

I hit >> Connect

Frisbee starts...

I hit >> Wireless Diagnostics

Select Ap_scan

Change the >> Ap_scan Parameter

from 1 to >> 2
for a better connection to a hidden network

Exit Frisbee

Hit Connect >> Frisbee starts...>> Wireless Network refresh

A few moments later...networks reappear

I fill in my details...and Frisbee connects.

::::::::

And Libre Office is fast.
I only had a quick test in version 1 and 2.

Thanks all...Chris.
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 01:35    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
otropogo wrote:
bigpup wrote:
otropogo,

What is the model of your Toshiba laptop?


Satellite A500 -02F

At Toshiba support I could not find a listing for A500-02F


That's the model name given on the base of the laptop. It was also advertised as such by a number of retailers, now probably two or three years old...

Quote:
They have A500-ST5601 thru ST5608 and a bunch of other ST numbers.
However all A500-models seem to have same basic specs.
By Toshiba's spec sheet on this computer you have:
4 USB V2.0 ports
3 V2.0
1 v2.0 eSATA/USB combo port with USB sleep and charge.


There are only two USB ports, both V2.0. Don't know about eSATA/USB.


Quote:
So, I assume you are using a USB v3.0 add on hub and I hope it is self powering.
I also assume this USB v3.0 add on hub is designed to hook to USB V2.0 and give USB V3.0 access.

First I would make sure you are not connecting to this USB combo port.


For testing I would only have one USB drive hooked up.


I'm connecting my USB3.0 drives through a two port USB3.0 PCI-expressbus adapter. And I've been "testing" and reporting lupu problems with USB3.0 support for many months now, and have tested every conceivable way.

The USB3.0 issues I described don't appear under Slacko, nor other Linux distros, nor in Windows7.


Quote:
This works sometimes does not work sometimes is hard to debug.

One thought is power output from USB port could cause issues with non self powered devices.
Being a laptop, not sure how power is feed to ports and how much a device needs.


I anticipated this problem from studying specs and reviews of USB3.0 adapters and drives, and so made sure that both the PCI-expressbus adapter and the USB drives I bought have their own power supply. It's a fairly trivial problem to overcome, but unfortunately this product line has been very poorly professionally reviewed. It's essential to buy an expresscard adapter that has a separate power jack. Such adapters generally come with a USB power cable which gets power from one of the laptop's existing USB2.0 ports - a horrible kludge. Sometimes the only hint of this is when the product description warns that the laptop must have an available USB2.0 port.

Some such adapters come with two ports but no power jack, so one USB3.0 port has to be sacrificed to bringing extra power from a USB2.0 port! Apparently there are even adapters that have only one USB3.0 port and no power jack. In that case, if the device demands more power than the expresscard adapter can supply, it won't work reliably. Specs on these power supply issues aren't generally available.

However, if the adapter has the jack, it's a simple matter to get an AC/DC adapter with 5V output and a standard USB2.0 jack to power it. Larger drives, like my 3TB Goflex should (and do) have their own AC power adapter.

In any case, lack of power isn't an issue in the issues I described.

Quote:
I have sometimes seen problems with Pmount not working so good. No clue why. I have had to do a complete power off reboot to fix. Seems to me Pmount does not adjust to changes very well. What it sees on initial boot is what it wants to see all the time.


Pmount has gone badly downhill since Puppy 2xx and 3xxx. MUT used to show the swap file, but no longer. Now pmount often can't tell the size of a partition and gets it outrageously wrong , and as described above, can't display some storage devices at all, even though they're iconized on the desktop and can be accessed via the icon. Having two burners on the system often confuses it very badly too.

The ntfs read-only problem is the most maddening though, being totally unpredictable, and existing only in lupu, and only with USB storage devices, so far as I've seen. Other linux distros either don't support ntfs-3g at all (no driver - such as Centos), or support ntfs read-only all the time, and on all storage devices, whether internal hard drive partitions or USB devices. In the case of Centos, it's simply a matter of installing the current ntfs-3g package to fix the problem.

The problem with lupu 528 seems to be simply a defective bundled ntfs-3g module, and the lack of a pet for the newer version that actually works.

The defects of the USB3.0 driver are certainly annoying, but one can live with them with proper care and planning (don't ever jiggle the expresscard adapter, for instance, and always remember to have your adapter and drives connected and powered up when booting Lupu). The ntfs read-only problem is a disaster by comparison. It's far easier and more effective to shut down Lupu and boot into Windows to do a large USB3.0 file transfer than to try it with Lupu.

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 01:47    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
...

...

If you uninstall ntfs-3g you would get the one in the sfs--not sure if it is the same--leave it alone if it is working. Same with gparted.

Did I mention you should backup the save file before doing anything! Menu -> Utility -> PupSave Hot Backup will do it.



Thanks for your help. I did backup my 2fs file initially, and will now do so more frequently, given the hot backup function.

Unfortunately, neither my ntfs-3g driver nor the USB3.0 driver are working properly, especially not the former (as described in my reply to Bigpup below). I've been hoping for a new pet for both. I know the more recent ntfs driver, circa 2011, works well, as I've installed it in Centos.

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5237
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 03:17    Post subject:  

otropogo,

Thanks for the detailed info about your problem with USB3 and NTFS.
We have a much better understanding of what is going on.
Explaining what you see, so we totally understand, is the hard step in troubleshooting problems.

Driver issues are in Playdayz control.
Knowing it works in Slacko is a big clue. Playdayz knows more than anyone else what that indicates.

Compared Slacko to Lupu.
These files are in Slacko5.3 but not in Lupu528.005.
Location /bin

ntfscat
ntfscluster
ntfscmp
ntfsfix
ntfsinfo
ntfsls

Are they needed for proper ntfs support????

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:52    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
...
Compared Slacko to Lupu.
These files are in Slacko5.3 but not in Lupu528.005.
Location /bin

ntfscat
ntfscluster
ntfscmp
ntfsfix
ntfsinfo
ntfsls

...


There must also be some sort of USB3.0 driver included, at least in Slacko 5.29.6, with which I was able to access the USB3.0 drives least problematically (hot plugging remained an issue, IIRC), as I didn't need to install the USB3.0 pet as I had to with lupu.

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 12:22    Post subject:  

Quote:
The USB3.0 issues I described don't appear under Slacko, nor other Linux distros, nor in Windows7.

I don't think usb 3.0 even existed when Lupu was created, so it doesn't surprise me there are problems. tempestuous knows far more than I do about kernel mode drivers for the 2.6.33.2 kernel in Lupu, and if his driver doesn't work it is certainly over my head http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=453853#453853

I am unable to recreate the problem with NTFS, at least as I understand it. I have an NTFS usb drive and everything works as it should, read and write, no problem.
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 13:50    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
...

I am unable to recreate the problem with NTFS, at least as I understand it. I have an NTFS usb drive and everything works as it should, read and write, no problem. Does the problem arise when you are trying to use usb 3.0 with an NTFS drive?


Yes. But intermittently (most of the time, unfortunately). However, it also occurs when using the same USB drives on the USB2.0 port. The only other detail that might possibly be relevant is that both drives are Seagates.

Which ntfs-3g driver was bundled in Slacko 5.29.6 and which is included in lupupluslibre-02?

Will try to do some further testing with lupupluslibre in the next while...

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 14:26    Post subject:  

Quote:
However, it also occurs when using the same USB drives on the USB2.0 port. The only other detail that might possibly be relevant is that both drives are Seagates.

Are you certain that these drives are being defragged? Are you using a defrag program such as O&O Defrag--free trial available I think. I noticed tempestuous mentioned that also. i would not rely on anything Windows is doing automatically.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 14:57    Post subject:  

For general info
The version of NTFS-3G that is in Lupu528.005 is ntfs-3g 2010.3.6
Has been a lot of updates since this one.
You can see them here:
http://www.tuxera.com/community/release-history/

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 15:06    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Quote:
However, it also occurs when using the same USB drives on the USB2.0 port. The only other detail that might possibly be relevant is that both drives are Seagates.

Are you certain that these drives are being defragged? Are you using a defrag program such as O&O Defrag--free trial available I think. I noticed tempestuous mentioned that also. i would not rely on anything Windows is doing automatically.


If the issue were fragmentation, it should be as much a problem in Centos, Windows7, and Slacko as it is in Lupu, surely...

In any case, these drives are barely used. And only to make very occasional backups.

They're not used in web browsing at all, and only a small fraction of the surface area has ever been written. I don't see any possibility of fragmentation...

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otropogo


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Southern Rocky Mt. Trench

PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 15:09    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
For general info
The version of NTFS-3G that is in Lupu528.005 is ntfs-3g 2010.3.6
Has been a lot of updates since this one.
You can see them here:
http://www.tuxera.com/community/release-history/


Thanks,

Unfortunately, it's the same one found in the original 528. What's needed is the 2011.4.12 version, IIRC. I've tried to install this one via a deb package, but failed to get it to work. I believe that's the one I've got running in Centos.

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