How to install Puppy in Asus laptop with UEFI BIOS? (Solved)

Message

dcg · #1 Post by **dcg** » Fri 30 Mar 2012, 02:32

I bought an asus laptop, and while attempting to change boot sequence to
load puppy I notice it has UEFI bios. I read a little about it and it seems that Microsoft has figured a way to gum up the works for other OS. Some linux distributors have written directly to M$ complaining about this situtation. If anybody can advise me on whether I'll be able to run puppy on this without a lot of hassle if not I'll take the laptop back, because I have been and want to continue using Puppy.Thanks Kindly ... dcg

Monsie · #2 Post by **Monsie** » Sat 31 Mar 2012, 08:10

Hi dcg,

Okay... I will be the first to respond here to what is certainly a controversial topic --one that is filled with a lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

First, please research this new specification. There is the Wikipedia article right here and also a good news article over here and there are certainly other good news stories which discuss this new technology while cutting through some of the hype.

The bottom line appears to be that while Microsoft requires the new secure UEFI boot feature for it's Windows 8 certified computers, the OEM or hardware vendor can add additional keys which allow other operating systems to load in a dual or multi-boot scenario. Exactly how that is done, I don't know, but I suspect (it makes most sense to me) that the key would contain critical information regarding the operating system kernel, so that one wouldn't have to get a custom UEFI for each and every distro out there. I have also read that secure UEFI boot feature can be disabled by the OEM if you don't want to run Windows 8 at all. So, you should check with your retailer, and/or with Asus about this and find out where you stand with your particular laptop.

Hope this helps,
Monsie

dcg · #3 Post by **dcg** » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 03:49

Thanks Monsie. After going into setup I found a boot option that allows for
UEFI to be disabled and I had no trouble loading puppy 5.2.8. I didn't mean
to be an alarmist with the UEFI stuff.Thanks Kindly.....dcg
. P.S. I might mention I was able to load Puppy 5.2.8 and go online, but with
Puppy 5.3.1, I was unable to find a driver to go online so I am using 5.2.8 and
very Happy

Monsie · #4 Post by **Monsie** » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 05:49

Hi dcg,

That is excellent news

My thoughts are that this topic may be of some value in future as forum members contemplate upgrading to a new computer. Hopefully, a search will easily find it...

Would you please edit your post to mark the Subject heading as "Solved". Also, it would be very useful if you would note the model name and/or number of your Asus laptop in the Subject description.

Thanks,
Monsie

Burn_IT · #5 Post by **Burn_IT** » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 13:18

I bookmarked this a long time ago when these BIOSs were first mentioned.You (and a lot of other people) might find it useful.

http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/hardware ... codes.html

I also think that MS are shooting themselves in the foot if they do insist on it remaining active. Plus the second hand machine market will either collapse or be the biggest bunch of Hackers alive.

nooby · #6 Post by **nooby** » Wed 04 Apr 2012, 13:52

dcg wrote:Thanks Monsie. After going into setup I found a boot option that allows for
UEFI to be disabled and I had no trouble loading puppy 5.2.8. I didn't mean
to be an alarmist with the UEFI stuff.Thanks Kindly...... dcg

That would be cool to know more about how one does such things.

As I remember it is only possible if the OEM allow such to be done.
So the model number of ASUS would help future buyers to know
what to look for?

nooby · #7 Post by **nooby** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:03

dcg wrote:I bought an asus laptop, and while attempting to change boot sequence to
load puppy I notice it has UEFI bios. I read a little about it and it seems that Microsoft has figured a way to gum up the works for other OS. Some linux distributors have written directly to Msoft. complaining about this situtation. If anybody can advise me on whether I'll be able to run puppy on this without a lot of hassle if not I'll take the laptop back, because I have been and want to continue using Puppy.Thanks Kindly ... dcg

Which Asus did you buy? What model name and number does it have?

Oops sorry suddenly I notice that in the title you have added
K73E-BBR7 So I will look for Asus K73E-BBR7
Here is one link that I found using google.
Typically they don't mention UEFI which tells me that many other
Laptops will not either tell in advance. One will only know after
buying the product if it can be used for linux.

That is why I asked so persistently insisting to get an answer.
Sorry if I came through as a grumpy old man

http://laptopstops.com/notebook/asus-k ... eview.html

It is interesting to test using these keywords.
"Asus K73E-BBR7" UEFI

or this on "Asus K73E-BBR7" EFI
gives different result.

EFI has existed for many years? but UEFI is Rather new?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Ex ... _Interface

The Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. UEFI is meant as a replacement for the BIOS firmware interface, present in all IBM PC-compatible personal computers.[1][2] In practice, most UEFI images have legacy support for BIOS services. It can be used to allow remote diagnostics and repair of computers, (or security exploits) even without another operating system. [3]

The original EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) specification was developed by Intel. Some of its practices and data formats mirror ones from Windows.[4][5] In 2005, UEFI deprecated EFI 1.10 (final release). The UEFI specification is managed by the Unified EFI Forum.

#8 Post by **Flash** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:30

Another possible fix for the UEFI BIOS is replace it with an open-source BIOS. I don't know if the open-source BIOS has advanced far enough to do that. See this thread.

nooby · #9 Post by **nooby** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 12:43

Thanks for that very important link Flash.

Suddenly the model number disappeared?

My naive worry. Why would they allow that one that easily change to something that works? I mean the UEFI is there to protect and if one
just can exchange it to something else then that protection is over ridden?

Would they not try to avoid such tricks like it is done on some smartphones
you have to jail break and that is a very difficult thing until somebody has
actually cracked it and that is only what some very dedicated specialists
are able to do and not on every phone either? Am I wrong?

Burn_IT · #10 Post by **Burn_IT** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 14:06

Well that is sort of the point.

The likes of MS don't want to be held legally liable for any nasties you get.

So they lock it up tight so that YOU have to break the contract to install ANYTHING that they haven't approved.

None of it is to protect the USER,; it is all to protect the supplier.

It wouldn't surprise me if MS and such actively (but secretly) encourage the jailbreaks. That way they can charge even more for repairs.

nooby · #11 Post by **nooby** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 15:42

It would be very consistent with how they see things.
I agree that they try to put the "blame" on the Hardware
or OEM to make the decision but these are dependent
on Ms to get enough volume on the market so it is likely
that several of them will make it as restricted as they can
without losing out among the competition.

And to change from one bios to another. Can not the bios
be password locked to the OEM and you need to get their
permission to unlock them in same way as smartphones
are locked to the Operator?

Burn_IT · #12 Post by **Burn_IT** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 16:13

I would be well p*£.. annoyed if I needed to get into the "BIOS" to fix something and it was passworded by the OEM and he'd gone away for the weekend/holidays. !!!!!

nooby · #13 Post by **nooby** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 17:30

Yes hopefully I am too pessimistic but how else can they protect the "Unified"
EFI. They have "Certificates" with Keys. Those "Keys" are unique.

Only the OEM knows it. So if they chose to not give you the keys.
How can you then get into BIOS and instead reload another free BIOS
or to install Linux or anything else.

No key to unlock it means you are locked out to change anything?
Or else there would be no security? Okay maybe it is only the Ms
that they want to secure. Would it be secure if one can install anything?

Burn_IT · #14 Post by **Burn_IT** » Mon 16 Apr 2012, 19:03

Would you be able to sell or accept a car that has the engine locked into 1st gear because otherwise it would not be safe.

There are such things as ROM blowers if it comes down to that.

The solution to the security problem is for MS etc. to write secure code in the first place, not to sell half tested code written in a hurry by some 9 -to-5 junior who is being pressured by a salesman to produce anything as long as it looks flashy.

I used to work on a big project management package used in many major worldwide engineering projects back in the 80's. I only once had a bug found in software that I had written for that package. Some of it is still in use even now.

Our code had to co-exist under MVS/MSP and VM with everything else the client wanted to run.

Sky Aisling · #15 Post by **Sky Aisling** » Tue 03 Dec 2013, 03:16

Here's some reading material about the secure boot feature of UEFI

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... we-know-it

http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-ne ... rives.html

http://idiallo.com/blog/2013/07/laptop- ... c-for-os10

Sky Aisling · #16 Post by **Sky Aisling** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 06:48

This UEFI business is so disheartening.

I'm helping a friend set up a new machine.
She ordered the machine, I wasn't present when she ordered.
The machine is due for delivery next week.
It's a Dell Inspiron 15 bundled with Win7 (she needs Win7 for one business application. I'll install Puppy for the rest of her work).
I intend to use Precise Puppy 5.7.1 resident on a USB flash drive (Precise Puppy 5.7.1 is a hot little puppy, btw)
How can I tell if the machine has the UEFI bios lock?
I seriously doubt it will be written on the box.
We'll have to open the box and see if we can boot Puppy from the stick.
If we can't then we have to send machine back to Dell?

Thank you for this thread, a small ray of good news.

nooby · #17 Post by **nooby** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 08:36

Sky I only guess so that my guess as a noob thing to say.

If the machine has Win7 then most likely it is not UEFI
but if it has had Win 8 from factory and if it is a return
and the reseller did install Win 7 on it then most likely
it has UEFI

Because my poor memory tells me that every Win 8 machine
that got delivered with Win 8 from factory does have UEFI

My Acer Netbook had Win7 and standard BIOS on it
but that was before MS decided that every win8 should be UEFI

I doubt that new win7 machines have UEFI unless
Ms also use it on later machines? Would not google know such

Ted Dog · #18 Post by **Ted Dog** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 15:19

most likely has both as my transition laptop does. Can switch between old and new boot methods. I spent a few weeks looking for a cheap win8 laptop that had a win7 sister model and asked questions on Amazon till I got all details including max memory upgrade. Linux guys are very responsive even if they are mint fans on Amazon Q.

nooby · #19 Post by **nooby** » Wed 04 Dec 2013, 20:44

Ted Dog wrote:most likely has both as my transition laptop does. Can switch between old and new boot methods. I spent a few weeks looking for a cheap win8 laptop that had a win7 sister model and asked questions on Amazon till I got all details including max memory upgrade. Linux guys are very responsive even if they are mint fans on Amazon Q.

Transition laptop? Here in Sweden they name it ASUS Transformer

Please tell what model you got it going on. Maybe we have it
in Sweden too.
Here is a link in Swedish to the one I planned to buy if it can do Linux

ASUS Transformer Book T100 Windows 8.1 10" HD-skärm,
Intel Inside, 64 GB SSD and 2 GB RAM.

Model is ASUS Transformer Book T100.
http://www.mediamarkt.se/mcs/product/AS ... langId=-16

Here is good news maybe

... if you’re not happy with the included software,
there’s work underway to get Ubuntu, Fedora,
and other operating systems to run on the tablet.

http://liliputing.com/2013/11/asus-tran ... ablet.html

Yes hope it works for Puppy too

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