Lucid Puppy 5.2.8 - Updated ISO Version 005 - APR 05 2012

[otropogo]

Interesting news, albeit somewhat late for me.

The obvious question though is, why would anyone create, or incorporate into a Linux distribution, a partitioning program certain functions of which are guaranteed to fatally sabotage the user's Windows system eventually without his even being aware of this until it's too late?

[Aitch]

The simple and should-be-obvious answer to that, is because M$ don't want linux users to succeed with using non-M$ tools
What once may have worked will be messed up ASAP by the Microsloth every time, in my experience

Aitch

[playdayz]

Firefox 11 Release

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/Firefox-11-Lucid.pet

A couple of the files are improved in this pet versus the Firefox 10 pet, so it is recommended to use this one. Specifically /usr/bin/firefox and /usr/local/bin/defaultbrowser now read

Code: Select all

/usr/lib/firefox/run-mozilla.sh /usr/lib/firefox/firefox "$@"

The argument "$@" was missing from the 10 pet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adobe Acrobat Reader 9.4.7 58MB

At sszindian's recommendation, Barry picked up on the version 9.3.3 from the Lucid repo. Here is 9.4.7 if anyone could test. The browser plugin and the Help seem to work with Firefox but not with Chromium. For the Help to work you need the Firefox 11 pet above.

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/Acrob ... -Lucid.pet

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/Acrob ... -Lucid.sfs

[bigpup]

Playdayz,

Thanks for the update pet for Firefox.
Just to see what happens, I did the update by internal Firefox update. Went from 10.0.2 to 11. Seems to be working OK.

[playdayz]

I did the update by internal Firefox update. Went from 10.0.2 to 11. Seems to be working OK

Yes, I meant to say that, everything seems to work fine with the internal update, except if a program tries to use Firefox to display its Help and other similar cases--that's what the "$@" is for in /usr/lib/firefox/run-mozilla.sh /usr/lib/firefox/firefox "$@"

[bigpup]

Interesting news, albeit somewhat late for me.

The obvious question though is, why would anyone create, or incorporate into a Linux distribution, a partitioning program certain functions of which are guaranteed to fatally sabotage the user's Windows system eventually without his even being aware of this until it's too late?

There are warnings and info in Gparted documentation (manual) on Gparted.org web site.
There are specific procedures when dealing with Windows partitions Vfat, ntfs.
One reason a Linux partition program can format Vfat and ntfs, is to give you a common readable data storage location, that can be read by all.
Gparted is a Linux operating systems partition program, primarily designed to support Linux.
It supports Windows formats as much as Microsoft will allow.

Note the warning in Gparted start page. A little outdated, but it does warn you.

[bigpup]

Playdayz,

The latest stable version of Gparted is 0.12.0
Any chance of an Update Pet?
Not sure if you would gain anything, but definitely newer than what comes with Lucid.
Download links here:
http://gparted.org/download.php

[jim3630]

Regarding the Broadcom wifi fix: It is made possible by peebee's testing support --

peebee
thank you!! as a frequent broadcom victim do appreciate your help.

[bigpup]

I did the update by internal Firefox update. Went from 10.0.2 to 11. Seems to be working OK

Yes, I meant to say that, everything seems to work fine with the internal update, except if a program tries to use Firefox to display its Help and other similar cases--that's what the "$@" is for in /usr/lib/firefox/run-mozilla.sh /usr/lib/firefox/firefox "$@"

After the internal update. It has the "$@" , but I am not completely sure it was not there before. I think I have done internal updates since version 9.0.1-2 lucid Firefox pet install.

[otropogo]

Interesting news, albeit somewhat late for me.

The obvious question though is, why would anyone create, or incorporate into a Linux distribution, a partitioning program certain functions of which are guaranteed to fatally sabotage the user's Windows system eventually without his even being aware of this until it's too late?

There are warnings and info in Gparted documentation (manual) on Gparted.org web site.
There are specific procedures when dealing with Windows partitions Vfat, ntfs.
One reason a Linux partition program can format Vfat and ntfs, is to give you a common readable data storage location, that can be read by all.
Gparted is a Linux operating systems partition program, primarily designed to support Linux.
It supports Windows formats as much as Microsoft will allow.

Note the warning in Gparted start page. A little outdated, but it does warn you.

Not clear how this would have warned me. The only Windows partitions I've ever used Gparted on were Win98SE and Win2K. And I would have thought the notice you refer to is reassuring rather than warning, unless one is expected to equate Win2K more with Vista than with XP.

[ICPUG]

bigpup has provided some very erudite answers on this topic but I tend to agree with otropogo that the warning in the gparted manual is a bit light in only really warning against using it with Vista. It does, however, show the benefit of RTFM.

To get back to otropogo's query:

The obvious question though is, why would anyone create, or incorporate into a Linux distribution, a partitioning program certain functions of which are guaranteed to fatally sabotage the user's Windows system eventually without his even being aware of this until it's too late?
Linux tools are built for Linux and bigpup explained why gparted has the functionality it does.

If Microsoft will not give the Linux community the internal definition of its file system then it is impossible to guarantee that any Linux tool will not trash a Windows system. When using Linux you must take on board this fact of life in the Microsoft world and be prudent. It is not gparted's fault that it cannot second guess all the twists and turns of the slippery MS, who seem to change the NTFS filesystem with each new Windows release and sometimes with a service pack. The alternative is not to support Windows at all, which as a Linux AND Windows user I would rather not contemplate!

[sheldonisaac]

please excuse if this isn't sufficiently relevant
have snipped a lot.

bigpup has provided some very erudite answers on this topic but I tend to agree with otropogo that the warning in the gparted manual is a bit light in only really warning against using it with Vista. It does, however, show the benefit of RTFM.

The alternative is not to support Windows at all, which as a Linux AND Windows user I would rather not contemplate!

Some time after I assembled this computer in 1998, my friend told me that Windows 98 seemed to work OK.
So I installed it, and swore I'd never get any fancy new OS.

Don't recall why, but a few years ago I bought a refurbished netbook with XP. Recently my friend gave me an unwanted desktop from 2004.

Both the newer computers boot XP from a NTFS partition, as well as Puppy from other partitions.

My uses and wishes are not very ambitious.

VFAT partitions are fine by me.

[cowboy]

rerwin, playdayz, et al.,

Not sure this is what you intended, but I attempted to use your new Cumulative patch-2 pet (which includes a broadcom fix ). Did a new install, broadcom bcm4311 found and installed through SNS. Can do this, sometimes, on a first boot, though it is erratic. Then, ran your fix, and created the new savefile and rebooted. On reboot, wifi light is off, and SNS can not find the broadcom driver. Tried again, created new savefile, then rebooted, and then ran the fix. On reboot, driver again not found. This is for a broadcom bcm4311 in a Dell Latitude.

Have no problem with finding and creating a connection in all Lucids up to 525. With 528, 528v4 and Three Headed Dog, it's been very hit and miss, and the driver if found and applied on the first boot, usually won't survive a second. Usually doing an install to a ext2 partition on a USB flash drive. Please let me know what else I can try, or what you need me to report.

thanks so,
cowboy

[peebee]

Hi Cowboy

Which version of lupu did you apply the fix to? It is meant to be applied to lupu528TESTING that playdayz announced:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... start=1110

download
http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/lupu- ... ING01a.iso

If your using the vanilla lupu528-004 then you need to load a Broadcom-STA pet if that's what you want to try see:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 360#609360

if you have wifi problems then you should run pmodemdiag in a terminal at the point that the problem occurs and post it to the forum.

Cheers
peebee

[otropogo]

The other issue, which may be outside the scope of this thread, as you suggest, is the fact that Win2K failed to recognize the ntfs partition freshly created by PartedMagic.

This is normal with Windows. Especially Windows installer program. The only ntfs partitions that it will recognize are ones made by Windows partition programs. Third party programs, you pay for, get the secret code Windows is looking for on the partition.
I have read reference to some kind of security code Windows wants to see.
Gparted will handle ntfs format, but being open source, it does not have 100% support from Microsoft, like pay for partition programs do. It does not give Microsoft money for the secret code Windows looks for.
Any time you use Gparted to re-size a ntfs partition that Windows is installed on, you have to use Windows boot disc or repair disc to do a repair operation.
Explained here:
Talks about Vista and Windows 7, but holds true for any Windows.
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows- ... partition/

I read the page cited above, and see there only a reference to modifying the Windows boot partition with Gparted, which has absolutely no relevance to the issues I reported. And, in fact, "ntfs" does not occur even once in this ancient "how-to" text of five years ago.

I also read the "Gparted manual" linked on the Gparted home page, and couldn't find any of the dire warnings about resizing ntfs partitions cited by you and others. I searched for 'ntfs' on the page, and the only warning found had to do with the registration key for the Windows OS - again, no relevance to my problems. On the contrary, tips on resizing ntfs partitions are provided with no suggestion of dire consequences:

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/display- ... elp-manual

Warning

Changing the UUID might invalidate the Windows Product Activation key (WPA).
On FAT and NTFS file systems, the Volume Serial Number is used as UUID. Changing the Volume Serial Number on the Windows system partition, normally C:, might invalidate the WPA key. An invalid WPA key will prevent login until you reactivate Windows.
In an attempt to avoid invalidating the WPA key, on NTFS file systems only half of the UUID is set to a new random value. On FAT file systems, such a precaution is not possible.
The WPA key should not be affected by changing the UUID of data partitions or removable media partitions. In rare cases, a partition that is present at boot time might be an exception to this rule.

Warning

Changing the UUID when there is no need to do so might cause a GNU/Linux system to fail to boot, or to fail to mount a file system.
Changing the UUID is only required after copying a partition. The UUID change is needed to prevent duplicate UUIDs when both the source and the copy of the partition are used on the same computer.
If boot or mount problems occur you might need to edit configuration files, such as /etc/fstab, and regenerate the grub menu to ensure that the correct UUID is specified.



Tip

To improve the ability to shrink NTFS partitions, you might consider one or more of the following:
Defragment the file system.
Booting into Safe Mode with the commercial operating system that uses NTFS can improve the ability to defragment the file system. To enter Safe Mode press F8 while your computer is booting the operating system.
Check the partition for errors with the following command:
C:> chkdsk /f /r

Remember to reboot back into the commercial operating system that uses NTFS to allow the chkdsk command to execute.
Temporarily disable the paging file. The paging file occupies a fixed location in the partition that the defragmentation process is unable to move.
Temporarily move large files to another partition or disk device. Large files are defined as greater than a few hundred Megabytes (MB).
Ensure a proper shut down of the commercial operating system that uses NTFS before you resize the NTFS partition
Leave at least 10 percent unused space in the NTFS partition. If you shrink the partition too much, then the commercial operating system might have difficulty functioning properly.
Reboot twice into the commercial operating system that uses NTFS after shrinking the NTFS partition.

Since I used Gparted to shrink the factory ntfs partition on my new 3TB usb drive, which I use for backups, this is not an academic issue for me. I do note that Windows7 has not expressed any concerns about this, and appears to be quite ready to keep writing to and reading this drive.

I've already been through the process of backing up all the data on this drive once, in preparation for the resize operation, when it was suggested that 3TB was impossible for both Windows as well as Linux to handle in a single partition - although I experienced no problems with Windows 7 reading and writing to it. So I'm especially reluctant to be persuaded to go through this exercise a second time without some unequivocal documentation.

I realize that's a lot to ask from Linux. But I think the problem is seriously exacerbated by people who are ever eager to blame anything in Linux that doesn't work properly on the user.


Assuming that you have actually read the warnings you cited in some seemingly authoritative documentation on Gparted, then I would ask:

"RWhichFM?"

[bigpup]

otropogo,

Sorry, my mistake. Gparted's manual uses the word tip and caution for warning.
I have also lost understanding of exactly what your problem is.
How about taking this issue, out of the Lucid Puppy topic, and start a new topic in maybe, users section of the forum.

[cowboy]

peebee,

thanks so for the response. It was the vanilla 528.04 I used the fix on - gracias for pointing out the difference. Tried the following - booted fresh with 528.04, downloaded the STA fix from your link, and applied that. Created savefile, and rebooted. On reboot, in SNS, the choice for wlan0 and the broadcom driver was missing entirely. Which seems strange. Will have some more time to review this on Friday. Thanks again...

[otropogo]

otropogo,

Sorry, my mistake. Gparted's manual uses the word tip and caution for warning.
I have also lost understanding of exactly what your problem is.
How about taking this issue, out of the Lucid Puppy topic, and start a new topic in maybe, users section of the forum.

So, you don't know what I'm talking about, but you know it doesn't belong in the Lucid thread?

I don't think you ever had an understanding of what I was talking about. Maybe if you read the posts you flame a little more carefully, you'd have better grasp. As it is you're giving questionable advice that isn't even relevant to the discussion.

All the problems I described concerned failures of programs bundled in Lucid. to wit, Gparted, cfdisk, and fdisk. Furthermore, the Gparted problem, at least, is evidently an artifact of Lucid, since the application performs normally when run standalone from a rescue disk.

I have no idea whether other variants of Puppy suffer from the same partitioning issues. Why then should I bother their users with this question?

[bigpup]

All the problems I described concerned failures of programs bundled in Lucid. to wit, Gparted

What do you see if you type gparted in the console and hit enter?

[otropogo]

All the problems I described concerned failures of programs bundled in Lucid. to wit, Gparted

What do you see if you type gparted in the console and hit enter?

The following line:

/usr/bin/gparted: line 81: /usr/sbin/gpartedbin: No such file or directory

And rest assured that I have never even tried to use the facility for removing bundled apps in Lupu. Don't have time right now, but will try a clean boot from the LiveCD later today to see whether that gives the same result.