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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Package Collections / Repositories
PPM does not reflect packages that distro developers add
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4297
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar 2012, 15:04    Post_subject:  PPM does not reflect packages that distro developers add  

From time to time over the years, I have (like others) run into issues with PPM behavior.

This thread addresses a PPM problem where the understnading on how it should be used is not obvious. Thus this kind of problem would. possibly, affect manymost new users.

Over the past several months, I have been having a problem with PPM. I had it in SLACKO, I had it in Exprimo. And, I believe I also had it, before, with Puppy.

The problem
Distro owners indicate that they have placed a product into the PPM stream. When I opem PPM, I see no such product or addition.

Circumvention
In the past, I merely exited, went to the download site, and D/L the necessary PET(s) needed. And, I though no more of it.

Last evening
I ran, again, into an issue with the PPM. This time, its happened with the latest Exprimo. I Did a little investigation to PPM behavior. When PPM opens, it opens to a Ziggy screen.

Now the problem can be better described along with some findings.

Scenario 1

In that screen, under "Repositories", 'puppy-exprimo' is pre-selected. When I type samba and click Go, I do not get SAMBA 3.63 for selection on screen. I get SAMBA 3.56, instead.

Scenario 2
In that screen, under "Repositories", 'puppy-exprimo' is pre-selected. I, first, change the repository to 'debian-squeeze...' , then I change the selection back to 'puppy exprimo'.
NOW, When I type samba and click Go, I, correctly, get your SAMBA 3.63 for selection on screen (see below).

If this is normal, then this is what I'll publish. But, I was not aware of this PPM mannerism, before.
And, there is nothing in PPM screen(s) that suggest this is the proper manner to see products available for distro from the distro owner(s).

Understanding that this is may be a wide-spread PPM problem, it is hoped that this is reported in the proper forum category.

And, if PPM behavior is changed, how will the distro owners recieve this update?

Hoep this helps
PPMsearch_bad.png
 Description   This is what happens when PPM opened from the Menu. Distro developers updates are NOT available.
 Filesize   92.59 KB
 Viewed   1140 Time(s)

PPMsearch_bad.png

PPMsearch_correct.png
 Description   BUT, after changing Repo and changing it back, I get what the distro developer wants us to see
 Filesize   64.81 KB
 Viewed   1111 Time(s)

PPMsearch_correct.png


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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1072

PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar 2012, 16:54    Post_subject:  

Hi gcmartin.

I'm glad that you raise this issue.
I also have experienced weird behaviors of PPM, in example of Lupu-528(.004):

0. Enable Ubuntu repos.
1. Type qjack into 'find' field - will find appropriate app.
2. Now, type libjack - will find libjackasyn0_0.11 and libjackasyn-dev_0.11 only.
3. Restart PPM.
4. Type libjack again - will find libjack0_0.118+svn3796 and libjack-dev_0.118+svn3796 only.

It seems that the order of searching has importance...

Besides, I suspect that not every app is listed in PPM, eg. I wasn't able to find 'vim' in Puppy's and all Ubuntu repos, but it's available via 'find' box.

Not to mention about problems with examining the dependencies: sometimes when I click 'Check dependencies' button, after longer time the window with 'Check deps' button appears again instead of window with listed deps.
Restarting PPM fixes this (sometimes).

Greetings!

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 02 Mar 2012, 07:24    Post_subject:  

Does this problem occur with the Classic UI?

If not, then we should ask zigbert to take a look at it, as he is the brain behind the Ziggy UI.

If it occurs in both UIs then... well, let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1072

PostPosted: Fri 02 Mar 2012, 07:48    Post_subject:  

You mean gcmartin's or/and my issue?
The searching problem (eg. of qjack/libjack) appears in both classic and Ziggy's UI.

Greetings!

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Sun 04 Mar 2012, 12:34    Post_subject:  

This may not be exactly on topic, but some PPM factoids. For new items added to the repos, one must update the Packages-puppy-lucid-official, or equivalent, (in /root/.packages). Thanks to 01micko, Quickpet, etc., has an auto updater Quickpet -> More Pets -> Update Lupu PPM. It is recommended to reboot after updating--and necessary if PPM has been used since booting. (It is also possible of course to manually update all repos through PPM--which can take a very long time.)

Also, if there is a package already installed of a particular name, then PPM may not show updates or variations to that package, but I as I recall searching will find them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appreciated.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4297
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 04 Mar 2012, 17:28    Post_subject:  

As a matter of course, the factoids that are shared should be in a document or a help screen that guide "official" use of the PPM.

As of late, I haven't gotten a clear picture of how to best approach the PPM. It has been further clouded by QuickPet, which I believe is helpful where it intends to give a faster path to have the REPOs updated for use in the PPM. But, Barry has ignored QuickPET (he's got his plate full with other things) and some others have not added QuickPET to their desktops.

There are times, as shown, when even REPO updates do not provide the desired results that I believe the distro owners want us users to have.

I'm not sure where to appropriately address this problem for there is no clear subject area which separates out PPM such that the "provider" know what is truly happening in PPM.

Any help, guidance, or steering to documentation which should be our underpinning of PPM behavior could add to anyone's understanding on how PPM works and how it should be used, could, reduce/address some of the issues that we run into. This documentation, again, could be "man", help screens, document from the help screen, multimedia video when we do something in conflict, or whatever would work in insuring we use it as designed, properly.

In my testing, I find PPM a very important vehicle to reaching needed products for PUPs. But, using it to find things that I know some distro owners have made available, does leave me in a state of confusion some of the time (at which time I begin playing games trying to figure behavior and trying to gains consistent understanding).
Hope this helps.

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar 2012, 00:16    Post_subject:  

For the problem of the user cannot figure out how to update the package lists - that can be solved with a more obvious button.
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar 2012, 03:51    Post_subject: PPM does not reflect packages that distro developers add  

Hi gcmartin,

Maybe I am missing something here after reading your post... but are you overlooking the wrench/screwdriver icon in PPM? What happens when you click on that? You made no mention of this, but you were meticulous in outlining other steps that you took, so it makes me wonder if I am supposed to assume that you completed the obvious steps first when running PPM for updates.

I run Wary, so the layout and design is a little different, but it seems to me that the function should be the same... which is to open a new window that includes an update button as seen in my screenshot. I do agree with jemimah that the update button could be placed in a better location, so as not to overlook it.

Now if you are just switching radio buttons back and forth and getting notification of updated packages without doing anything else to update the repositories, then that is definitely weird...

Thanks for further clarifying this matter.

Monsie
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michel804

Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr 2012, 11:32    Post_subject:  

To gcmartin, thanks for this details about PPM...I am still trying to find a way to install the JDK. so i will try switching between different repos as you mentioned
Michel
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2507
Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr 2012, 12:11    Post_subject: ppm
Sub_title: jdk
 

michel804 wrote:
To gcmartin, thanks for this details about PPM...I am still trying to find a way to install the JDK. so i will try switching between different repos as you mentioned
Michel

Why not from http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk-7u3-download-1501626.html Question

Searching for jdk in ppm result is :
- title
OK
PPM_JDK.png
 Description   Searching for JDK in PPM
 Filesize   28.08 KB
 Viewed   920 Time(s)

PPM_JDK.png

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michel804

Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2012, 00:36    Post_subject: Re: ppm
Sub_title: jdk
 

L18L wrote:
michel804 wrote:
To gcmartin, thanks for this details about PPM...I am still trying to find a way to install the JDK. so i will try switching between different repos as you mentioned
Michel

Why not from http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/jdk-7u3-download-1501626.html Question


Yes L18L, I looked at oracle website but they don't have a pet package only tar.gz forma but I don't know how to use that for Puppy. However, I found that someone in the forum has compiled sfs files for JDK 1.6-31 which is good for me !
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