Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Sun 26 Oct 2014, 03:28
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Music2Go Pup! - A Puppy for doing some music
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
Page 3 of 4 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Author Message
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Thu 16 Feb 2012, 21:05    Post_subject:  

Hi RSH,

Lazy is good, but what about the concept of a barebones music pup, that only needs the things that make jack and alsa work as a starter? Maybe a realtime Luci?

I didn't put Gecko in, but not sure that Wine is 90mb?
The Green Dome pet was 21mb, wineasio pet was 19kb and jack pet was 8mb.

The biggie was all the wash and go vst plugins, setup and ready to launch,
69mb, drum machines, synth and midi tools.
So Luci was 130mb+ plugins 69mb+ wine?. The iso is about 221mb.

I did start on a barebones 431, which was promising, but the ALSA was an early one and I was thinking it would not help much.
Then I went through a few, like Racy, then suddenly that Playdayz one really kicked ass good style on the alsa, and the Wine "took" nicely!

I hear what you are saying about portable apps. In fact, all the apps are portable, 'cept for podium free (I think, but maybe that is as well).

I am removing the pup from download shortly, as it was a proof of concept thing and to sort of show how I think a Music Puppy should work.

Not through spite or anything, but I am thinking that the vst+app devs might prefer it if people went to their respective websites to download their creations.

I might have another look at LMMS, something about clip based did my head in, what about linear based, maybe it is as well, and I had a struggle looking for linux type vsti plugins, saw bristol, it looks "okay".

Wonder why Ardour 3 is so "fat"?


A lot of music people aren't programmers or mr fixits, they just want to get some sounds going without having to link things like jack to hydrogen to Ardour to jackrack, to Bristol, what the heck is all that about?
Just one decent multitracker with midi and audio editing recording built in is enough for most! Well I prefer it that way at least.

I would, like darkcity, be interested on working on a Music Pup with the community.
Maybe starting from a realtime kernel, with at least alsa 10.24 and one good DAW all linked up and ready to go, with a tasty hand selected set of plugins as a starter.

Should only be 90mb or so I reckon, then there is room to stick some nice sounds in like a decent piano, quality real drum kit and a few nice electro sounds. A good starting point for adding your own guitars and vocals.
Then pets or sfssssssssssess as options?

It's not rocket science, could be done in a couple of weeks, bish bash bosh, test, test, done! That was me being optimisic btw!
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Fri 17 Feb 2012, 08:00    Post_subject:  

Some random ideas Cool

---

I wonder if it would be possible to make a sound production SFS that would be compatible with Lazy and a barebones rt version of lucid? That way both camps can benefit.

So Lazy would have three Audio SFSs

Sound Production (Jack + decent digital audio workstation)
Sound Production Extra (jackrack, to Bristol)
Sound Play (VLC, Song Bird)


One problem is it looks like RT patches weren't made for 5.29's kernel (2.6.37)
https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/

Maybe use 3.0 kernel with RT patch? lucid 3, if 5.29 three-headed-dog was lucid 2

barebone lucid thread
www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=64480

If you consider LazY as a interface improve+pascal+ good SFS support

So you could choose

Lucid 3 + (LazY pup interface inc pascal) + SFSs of choice

-

Another option is it base it on QtPuppy - which is unfortunately on hold. Jack uses Qt so it makes sense in a way.

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/QtPuppy


---

(Q) Why was Racy no good for Music2go?

---


Has anyone tried QTractor (has MIDI support) or Traverso DAW?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_audio_software#Recording_and_editing

_________________
helping Wiki for help | IF SendSpace link = "dead" THEN PM me ("up file to http://meownplanet.net/")
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri 17 Feb 2012, 20:39    Post_subject:  

Smithy wrote:
I didn't put Gecko in, but not sure that Wine is 90mb?
The Green Dome pet was 21mb, wineasio pet was 19kb and jack pet was 8mb.

I have made an sfs containing foobar, exact audio copy and gecko - its size is 91mb. Gecko is about 63mb and is needed for Embedded HTML.

darkcity wrote:
So Lazy would have three Audio SFSs

Sound Production (Jack + decent digital audio workstation)
Sound Production Extra (jackrack, to Bristol)
Sound Play (VLC, Song Bird)

I did try to put jack into the sfs - but failed. Jack won't run from inside the sfs. That's why jack is inside LazY Puppy. Maybe the newer Jack by using THD (newer kernel) could work - didn't try this.

darkcity wrote:
Maybe use 3.0 kernel with RT patch? lucid 3, if 5.29 three-headed-dog was lucid 2

If you try to use a that new kernel you might need to use newer applications that may to be compiled first for any puppy. Example therfor is openshot which does not work in THD (THD is lucid 528 based with newer kernel).

Compiling for puppy isn't that easy to me - mostly i did fail (except two times).

_________________
LazY Puppy
RSH's DNA
SARA B.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Sun 19 Feb 2012, 08:57    Post_subject:  

Ah, so Gecko is the big one, fortunately it wasn't needed for the music apps.

About Racy, well the reason I skipped it was a few nooby things like it went blank when I tried booting, had to research that one and finally worked out the three finger salute ctl/alt/backspace and then get the xorg working, then the alsa wasn't up to scratch for usb quirky cards, so I left Racy for the time being and moved on.

Can't even get Ardour 3 going! I ran out of Ram on the puppy.
It just laughed at the puny ram, and I laughed and told it to go on a diet.

http://qtractor.sourceforge.net/qtractor-index.html

Qtractor looks great! Missed that one, thanks for the info darkcity.

Tried loading it this morning, coming up against finding the right dependencies for it. There is a Barry K Qt4 for quirky I found, and Qtractor also needs a rubber band.so thing. Might try again, grumble, grumble etc...

Wish there was a .pet for everything it needs, such a pita looking all over for these things and I don't want to duplicate files that might already be in the pup.

A few caveats which are possibly being worked out here:

http://wwww.rncbc.org/drupal/node/357#comment-4763

There don't seem to be many LV2 "intruments" for linux at the moment at all, so vsti and vst is still the way to go for musical fun! (imo).

Festige gives horrible latency? DSSIVST seems to be good?
Vst/i support will still be over Wine apparently, no biggie, getting perfectly fine latency anyways. And as LV2 develops, that would be better as it would be native.

Some good random ideas going there darkcity!

So would you say that a realtime Kernel reduces load on the cpu, when trying to achieve very low (round trip, time it takes for data to go from the sound card input to the speaker output) latencies?
Just wondering if there are any other puppyists looking for realtime for their apps apart from sound production people.
Maybe gamers?
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Sun 19 Feb 2012, 10:17    Post_subject:  

gamers tend to buy hardware Razz

also there is some debate over ALSA and OSS

Some gamers have said using ALSA gives delays in sound fx

Where as ALSA people say they its because ALSA hasn't be programmed properly and they mainly concentrate on Music production

i wonder if puppy arcade would benefit
http://scottjarvis.com/page105.htm

---

qtractor should would on qtpuppy - though its only in alpha-
http://www.lamiaworks.com.au/puppy_qt.html

Arrow

Quote:
So would you say that a realtime Kernel reduces load on the cpu, when trying to achieve very low (round trip, time it takes for data to go from the sound card input to the speaker output) latencies?


it gives sound processes priority, so I guess it defers rather than reduces?
https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.html

_________________
helping Wiki for help | IF SendSpace link = "dead" THEN PM me ("up file to http://meownplanet.net/")
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Sun 19 Feb 2012, 10:42    Post_subject:  

Water cooled overclocking gamers yep Smile
It's an art in itself I guess.


Will have a look at QT Puppy, probably hasn't got updated ALSA though?

Only the Three Headed Dog is up to scratch on ALSA as far as I know, and I went through a lot of 'em.

Just found this:

http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/sound/

Might be some bits and pieces that will get Qtractor up for a good test.
Might be the candidate for a decent Puppy workstation sfsssssssssss.
Or Pet.

Have you ever tried Qtractor?
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Sun 19 Feb 2012, 20:03    Post_subject:  

I'm yet to try QTractor - just trying different things.



Treading some similar ground, with someone called synth
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39741



More on the OSS vs ALSA debate-
Open Sound Sytem 4.0 (OSS) Anyone tried it with puppy ?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=18722

Arrow Arrow

_________________
helping Wiki for help | IF SendSpace link = "dead" THEN PM me ("up file to http://meownplanet.net/")
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon 20 Feb 2012, 18:46    Post_subject: Music2Go Pup! - A Puppy for doing some music
Sub_title: Zynewave Podium Free Portable
 

Hi, Musicians (are you?)

I have made a portable running version of "Zynewave Podium Free". It runs from USB Stick into Wine without installing it. But i don't know anything about how to use this one program and do not have any examples to improve it (sometimes programs run but didn't work at all).

Would somebody please post an example file for "Zynewave Podium Free"?

I would like to improve its functions and then build a real PortableApp of "Zynewave Podium Free".

Thanks

RSH

Edit:

Smithy wrote:
Ah, so Gecko is the big one, fortunately it wasn't needed for the music apps.

Maybe not for the music apps, but sometimes for the documentation files. They often use embedded HTML - or they call the Internet Explorer which needs embedded HTML.

_________________
LazY Puppy
RSH's DNA
SARA B.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Tue 21 Feb 2012, 19:38    Post_subject:  

Well here is a pretty rough and ready pod file using midi instruments, and based on a famous Teutonic Tune lol.

http://www.smokey01.com/Smithy/Model One.pod

Here's how it will sound in music2go pup:

http://www.smokey01.com/Smithy/Model One.mp3

I am still getting my head round Podium, but in runs better in the music2go pup than it does on Windows, didn't crash once, and the audio didn't glitch once! That is a testament to linux for sure.

If you are trying to make a portable app out of Podium you will have to find the colour schemes (one of which I slaved over to get it to look right).
Think they are in wine data application folders.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2012, 12:38    Post_subject:  

Ok, this is the final music2go, same url as the first page.

Solid and stable now, Jack working good in both rt mode and..erm not rt mode.
Couldn't get on with Timidity at all so it was abandoned for Synthfont.
Seems like a very good program.

Darkcity's Ardour 2 compile with oscilloscopes and plenty of effects is in there, and working great.

Before using, it is best to get these two downloads and install:

The first one is Visual C++ 4.5mb and the reason it is needed is for jesokola sampler/sf2 synth, you can use it without, but any tracks that use jesokola will close with an angry message.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5555

The second one is mfc42.dll and you just have to unzip and drop in wine/system 32 folder. 900kb. Click on download Zip File not DLL Fixer.

http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?mfc42

I would say that this is a pretty solid base for testing the jack latency, and have included a couple of tracks in podium, Electro and Human, which gradually one could add more tracks to until jack overloads!

The places to go for setting up soundcard(s) are wineconfig, and the speaker tray in retrovol hw0, hw1 etc. Failing that ALSA wizard and Multiple Wizard.
I find that just a restart of x helps after configuring.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jun 2012, 11:28    Post_subject:  

Just seen this - great work.

I haven't compiled Ardour2! capicoso takes the credit if your referring to this version-
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=78007

I had problems because I think he compile with different stdc++

----

Need new harddrive or/and burn some off, as I'm currently limit in what pups I can test.

----

Will work more on Qtractor and Jackd when I have time, also will add mime types etc. Would like to see native linux music pup.

Twisted Evil

---

BTW version numbering would be great as it will make tracking any problems much easier. This is the third music2go and the second final, all with same name.

_________________
helping Wiki for help | IF SendSpace link = "dead" THEN PM me ("up file to http://meownplanet.net/")
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2012, 19:22    Post_subject:  

Oops, I meant Audacity 2. Gave that a nasty time to get it to crash, so far seems solid.

I didn't put Capicoso Ardour in because it puts things all over the place, places I don't know, and wanted to make sure that absolutely everything, internet, video and THD accessories would still remain functional.

But I do recall that it works very very well in this version, stable for audio, record audio in broadcast wave format etc, but my knowledge of native midi instrument plugins is scant, and will leave it until some expert can put it all together wash and go style.

Capicoso Jack 018 compile is in there, and that is cracking, should be a perfect router for native stuff and is very good with wineasio.

As regards the earlier m2go versions, all the other ones are dead, they were on the operating table for hours, but they gave out. I had a funeral for them in the yard.
This one has been stripped down to avoid duplication, too many drum modules, thought it would be best if musicians decide what they wanted to put in, so just left a 32mb Soundfont for bread and butter sounds, one good multitimbral sampler/drum/sf2 player, a good synth, a couple of good guitar amps, a donationware soundfont prog, (give him some love!) and concentrated on the relationship between Jack, the Puppy Sound System and Multiple Soundcards.

It's quite a trick getting one soundcard to just deliver midi and another one to deal with audio over usb, and THD is the only one able to do this, don't know why, but it works sweet with no glitches or hiccups.

So it's not just a case of shoving alsa 1.0.24.2 in a distro,
(other distros have it in there now, and it is still broken for multiple sound) there is something else going on...
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun 2012, 15:04    Post_subject:    

Quote:
So it's not just a case of shoving alsa 1.0.24.2 in a distro,
(other distros have it in there now, and it is still broken for multiple sound) there is something else going on...


I will look into this when I have a chance. there seemed to be some confusion regard using what

cat /proc/asound/version

returns and the actual number.

_________________
helping Wiki for help | IF SendSpace link = "dead" THEN PM me ("up file to http://meownplanet.net/")
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
joaquinotero

Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri 26 Oct 2012, 20:37    Post_subject: Issues with MUsic2go  

Hi, great work, just some issues here.
Cant get Podium starting, Wavosaur is the same thing, and reaper doesn't appear just like the screenshots you posted on the website.

I hope you can help.

Thanks a lot for your work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Sat 27 Oct 2012, 07:00    Post_subject:  

Hi Joaquinotero.

1. Did you get this file? Wavosaur needs it to run.
Details of this 5 posts above this one

http://www.dll-files.com/dllindex/dll-files.shtml?mfc42
mfc42.dll
Click on download Zip File not DLL Fixer.

Unzip and drop in wine/system 32 folder. 900kb.

See if Wavosaur comes up after doing that.

2. I removed Reaper 'cos it seemed a little glitchy at times, but if you want that version back, (v0.99) I still have that setup which can be put back in easily. There are trialware versions of the latest at reaper.com

3. What's the issue with Podium? Won't even start?

If you click on Jack Asio on the desktop, then SETUP/input device, output device, what sound card/s does it say you have?

P.S It would be good if you can run puppy with pfix= ram on bootup to avoid any confusion whilst you test.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Display_posts:   Sort by:   
Page 3 of 4 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Jump to:  

Rules_post_cannot
Rules_reply_cannot
Rules_edit_cannot
Rules_delete_cannot
Rules_vote_cannot
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1081s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0080s) ][ GZIP on ]