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jemimah
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Re: Saluki 010 -- Startup Instructions re Frisbee missing

#941 Post by jemimah »

mikeslr wrote: When I unpacked the ISO, in addition to a Puppy's usual boot files, I also copied adrv_luki...sfs to the same folder. On boot up, Saluki reports that it found it. So I guess I'm using it. But frankly, I don't really know what it is, nor how best to make use of it. I recall, I think, some discussion that some apps would remain in --again I think-- Saluki's "core" which I assume (read that as ass u & me) is identical to puppy_luki_xxx.sfs, while others usually found in the puppy.sfs would be placed in "adrive", and that there was some way to move them from one to the other. Mavrothal's recent post indicated that he had booted without adrv. Did he not copy it from the ISO, or copy it other than to Saluki's folder, and if the later where?
I've been working with Puppies for about 5 years. I've read Saluki's entire thread, 'though not in one sitting. All of which is to suggest that if I'm confused about adrv, what would a newby make of it? and to suggest that a detailed explanation --perhaps in a txt file found in my-documents, with a menu entry-- might be appropriate.
I appreciate that the use of adrv is an innovation. But that is all the more reason to provide some sort of guide. As it evolves, the guide/instructions can be edited.
I do intend to document this and make a tool to create a new adrive. It's just going to take some time - the whole concept is still under development.

The basics are this:

If saluki doesn't find the adrive - you get only the core, which has no applications at all. You can then (once I fix the deps on some of the packages) install only apps you like from the ppm or other sources and then remaster.

Or you will be able to use the adrive builder to make your own personal adrive - the advantage to doing it this way is that you can upgrade the core easily when a new version comes out.

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8-bit
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#942 Post by 8-bit »

Ok, I wish I would have known about that SFS file! A new user would not have known either. It should be included by default in the distribution as it is needed for CUPS for printing.
The good news is that after a reboot, I was able to print to my printers.
The bad news is that the driver "pixma-MP390" driver did not work for my Canon MP390 printer and I got a head jam when trying to print the test page. That was not a good thing.
I had to use an almost compatable driver in the Canon s800 driver.
I do not know why the other driver was shown when it does not work.
That is unless the test page that prints to the very edge of the paper was never tried for that driver and normal printing worked.
I would have to investigate further.

But anyway, thank you for pointing me to the SFS file and as I had said it really needs to be included as part of the distribution by default.
I mean sure, it would increase the size of the ISO. But with this version being made for late model PCs, a few more megs in size is not going to hurt anything and if you look at other OSes, their file size for the ISO is huge.
So what would it take to include it in the ISO and have it loaded by default?
Putting in a message to download and install that SFS would turn the user off as he would see an unfinished OS.
Am I making any sense?
That is my two cents worth on a great distribution that would be good for the windows users as it works more or less the same way with double-clicking and a control panel.

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jemimah
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#943 Post by jemimah »

Having printing in a separate sfs allows for easier maintenance and/or maintenance by another developer. Modularity is key to making Saluki supportable by a team.

It also means we can add a lot more printer drivers or upgrade to the newer, much larger, version of postscript without wasting a lot of RAM space for people who never print.

I can add the printer/scanner sfs to the ISO if people want but I think you'd all prefer not to keep downloading it over and over again during testing.

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jim3630
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#944 Post by jim3630 »

rarely print here. would rather not keep downloading during testing.

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Geoffrey
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#945 Post by Geoffrey »

Hi jemimah,

I just managed to get my canon mp280 working, I scanned and image and saved as a pdf, some where alone the line evince from adrv_luki_010.sfs gets overwritten with the script in puppy_luki_010.sfs /usr/bin/evince

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#BK nov 2007
#it seems built-in to gtk and gnomeprint print-dialogs, if choose print-
#preview, tries to run 'evince' -- which is a Gnome document viewer.
#i looked at what gets passed into this 'evince' script when try to print-
#preview from Leafpad:
#--unlink-tempfile --preview --print-settings /tmp/settings5F8P1T.ini /tmp/previewQ2HM1T.pdf
#...interesting, it's a pdf file. so, do this...


ONLYFILENAMES="`echo -n "$*" | tr '\t' ' ' | tr -s ' ' | tr ' ' '\n' | grep -v '^-' | grep 'pdf$' | tr '\n' ' '`"

exec epdfview $ONLYFILENAMES
I noticed that xmenumaker didn't get updated to the latest version.
Attachments
xmenumaker.bz2
(5.26 KiB) Downloaded 136 times

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jemimah
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#946 Post by jemimah »

Geoffrey wrote:Hi jemimah,

I just managed to get my canon mp280 working, I scanned and image and saved as a pdf, some where alone the line evince from adrv_luki_010.sfs gets overwritten with the script in puppy_luki_010.sfs /usr/bin/evince

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#BK nov 2007
#it seems built-in to gtk and gnomeprint print-dialogs, if choose print-
#preview, tries to run 'evince' -- which is a Gnome document viewer.
#i looked at what gets passed into this 'evince' script when try to print-
#preview from Leafpad:
#--unlink-tempfile --preview --print-settings /tmp/settings5F8P1T.ini /tmp/previewQ2HM1T.pdf
#...interesting, it's a pdf file. so, do this...


ONLYFILENAMES="`echo -n "$*" | tr '\t' ' ' | tr -s ' ' | tr ' ' '\n' | grep -v '^-' | grep 'pdf$' | tr '\n' ' '`"

exec epdfview $ONLYFILENAMES
I noticed that xmenumaker didn't get updated to the latest version.
Yikes, I wonder where that's coming from.

Thanks for the new xmenumaker - I know I forgot something.

Also thanks for the sfses that you uploaded!

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smokey01
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#947 Post by smokey01 »

jemimah wrote:
smokey01 wrote:
BTW as cairo has only one dependency why not bundle it with cairo. This would stop a lot of nagging from noobs and probably a few others. :wink:
There are other programs that depend on gtkglext so if I bundle it, things get confusing, or you might end up installing it multiple times or removing it when you actually needed it.

Not quite. When each program is installed a check of dependencies should be done, if the dependency exists then it's not installed. If this was the case the dependency would only be installed once.

If you install cairo-dock from the ppm it automatically installs gtkglext right?

No, you have to examine dependencies and download them separately. This is quite confusing. First I don't believe it checks to see if the dependencies exist, it just tells you they are required.

I could make it so the PPM doesn't ask you so many questions and just downloads the dependencies without making you read anything. Is that where the confusion is? Or is it something else?
I'm not sure how hard this would be implement but this is how I think it should work.

Click on Pet. Checks to see if the program is already installed.

a. If it is, it warns you and give you the option to abort
b. Checks to see if it's a later version of program
c. Check the OS, is it compatible?
d. Checks to see if dependencies exist

Once you say install, the program is installed and all required dependencies are also installed.

The packaging may need to be a bit more sophisticated but at least every time a program is installed there is a higher possibility it will work.

There are many packages that will work across various Puppies and then there are some that don't. It becomes very frustrating for noobs and not so noobs who get this wrong.

As you know the first time something doesn't work, you hear, Puppy is crap. Us more enlightened people know that not true but for people using Puppy for the first time, it has to work OOB.

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Geoffrey
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#948 Post by Geoffrey »

Oh! on the subject of Cairo Dock, if you Restart X windows it doesn't kill Cairo Dock, so you end up with two instances running, I did try a killall in the start script but that a crappy way of doing it, it needs to be stopped when exiting X.

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jemimah
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#949 Post by jemimah »

smokey01 wrote:
jemimah wrote:
smokey01 wrote:
BTW as cairo has only one dependency why not bundle it with cairo. This would stop a lot of nagging from noobs and probably a few others. :wink:
There are other programs that depend on gtkglext so if I bundle it, things get confusing, or you might end up installing it multiple times or removing it when you actually needed it.

Not quite. When each program is installed a check of dependencies should be done, if the dependency exists then it's not installed. If this was the case the dependency would only be installed once.

If you install cairo-dock from the ppm it automatically installs gtkglext right?

No, you have to examine dependencies and download them separately. This is quite confusing. First I don't believe it checks to see if the dependencies exist, it just tells you they are required.

I could make it so the PPM doesn't ask you so many questions and just downloads the dependencies without making you read anything. Is that where the confusion is? Or is it something else?
I'm not sure how hard this would be implement but this is how I think it should work.

Click on Pet. Checks to see if the program is already installed.

a. If it is, it warns you and give you the option to abort
b. Checks to see if it's a later version of program
c. Check the OS, is it compatible?
d. Checks to see if dependencies exist

Once you say install, the program is installed and all required dependencies are also installed.

The packaging may need to be a bit more sophisticated but at least every time a program is installed there is a higher possibility it will work.

There are many packages that will work across various Puppies and then there are some that don't. It becomes very frustrating for noobs and not so noobs who get this wrong.

As you know the first time something doesn't work, you hear, Puppy is crap. Us more enlightened people know that not true but for people using Puppy for the first time, it has to work OOB.
Part of the confusion is that the concept of dependencies has two different definitions.

The first checks a list of which packages are installed - this is done with package names only. The package maintainer is supposed to specify the packages names of the dependencies when making the pet. This is the type of check the ppm does when you click on a pet from the repo. This actually works pretty well if you stick to the "walled garden" of the ppm only, but I don't think it runs when you download a pet from an external location and click on it.

The second is the dependency check that runs ldd and checks for error messages about missing shared libs. This is done after the pet is installed. If it tells you about missing libs here, there is no real easy way to know which packages would provide the missing libs. There's no database that provides this info, so if the ldd check fails you are on your own.

The checks you suggest would not be terribly difficult to implement and would not require modifications to the pet format or anything like that. I'll work on it.

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jemimah
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#950 Post by jemimah »

Geoffrey wrote:Oh! on the subject of Cairo Dock, if you Restart X windows it doesn't kill Cairo Dock, so you end up with two instances running, I did try a killall in the start script but that a crappy way of doing it, it needs to be stopped when exiting X.
Ok, will do.

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James C
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#951 Post by James C »

Fresh manual frugal install of 010 on my Athlon XP box. No problems.

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smokey01
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#952 Post by smokey01 »

Jemimah, you have a brand new Psip32-1.3-Saluki package in the Repo.

I have changed many of the icons as obviously there have been changes in the gtk-icon-set.

The new ones look much nicer.

Pets.specs

Code: Select all

Psip32-1.3-Saluki|Psip32|1.3-Saluki||Internet|1832K||Psip32-1.3-Saluki.pet||Psip32 Puppy Phone|puppy|wary5||
http://www.smokey01.com/saluki/pet_pack ... Saluki.pet

BTW, thanks for considering the changes to PPM I suggested.

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dennis-slacko531
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I Wikipedia'd Athlon XP because I too have an older CPU

#953 Post by dennis-slacko531 »

James C wrote:Fresh manual frugal install of 010 on my Athlon XP box. No problems.
Because Midori, from 009 luki wouldn't let you browse into a (I guess SSL, https) site, I got quickly loaded Seamonkey 2.7 and a couple other .pet programs. As expected they appeared on the (sorry, Start menu) and things looked good.

I shutdown and the next day nothing was there. Nothing in the menu system at all. I just did a system-wide PFind on seam and SeaMonkey is nowhere. Tonight I'm using Firefox and hope it will be there tomorrow!

But maybe it's because our hardware is outdated, I don't know. I may follow up on this discussion, okay.

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jemimah
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#954 Post by jemimah »

smokey01 wrote:Jemimah, you have a brand new Psip32-1.3-Saluki package in the Repo.

I have changed many of the icons as obviously there have been changes in the gtk-icon-set.

The new ones look much nicer.

Pets.specs

Code: Select all

Psip32-1.3-Saluki|Psip32|1.3-Saluki||Internet|1832K||Psip32-1.3-Saluki.pet||Psip32 Puppy Phone|puppy|wary5||
http://www.smokey01.com/saluki/pet_pack ... Saluki.pet

BTW, thanks for considering the changes to PPM I suggested.
Sweet! I've updated the Package list.

Also the gstreamer deps should be fixed for anyone that was wanting to test installing apps without an adrive.

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mavrothal
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#955 Post by mavrothal »

Tried the following SFSs over just the base
Gimp, VLC, LibreOffice, Opera, Printer-scanner.
All worked with the exception of printer-scanner that has dependencies on the Adrive (browser, libgphoto etc).

One issue likely related to SFS_load, is that menu entries are not updated till you restart X, either when you load or unload an SFS.
Also LibreOffice does not show the application icons in the menu, till you install any pet and menus are updated through the PPM call.
Also the gstreamer deps should be fixed for anyone that was wanting to test installing apps without an adrive
Nice.
Midori too. Though it appears that pulls too many deps. Only needed plugins-base I believe. But I guess better be safe than sorry.
Last edited by mavrothal on Sun 05 Feb 2012, 08:28, edited 2 times in total.
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#956 Post by magerlab »

I noticed that not all the xfce4 settings are in the base sfs( panel pliguns for example). May be it's better to have them in or make an additional pet?

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smokey01
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#957 Post by smokey01 »

The sound settings are not persistent between reboots.

Each time I reboot I have to reset them, mainly input such a mic etc.

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smokey01
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#958 Post by smokey01 »

PPM is not playing nice.

There seems to be more files in the package list than are being displayed in PPM.

http://smokey01.com/saluki/Packages-pup ... i-official

Psip is in the list but can't be seen in PPM however, if can be found when searched for.

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#959 Post by Lobster »

Tried the following SFSs over just the base
Gimp, VLC, LibreOffice, Opera, Printer-scanner
VLC seems OK and I watched a movie with Ogle DVD player yesterday. Very good program. :)
I have also been looking at the other two WM
Icewm and jwm 8)
(shutdown go to prompt and type xwn icewm or xwin jwm)
They both seemed to be there but a little confused by xfce programs :?
For example I could not change the wallpaper in icewm

FF10 is stable at browsing but if I restart x windows it gives me the option to restore my tabs but then does not. It almost seems like there is a second Firefox somewhere. Maybe I will type top at the terminal and see what is going on . . .

Is help working in the (very good) screenshot program? It is not in icewm :?
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

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Geoffrey
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#960 Post by Geoffrey »

mavrothal wrote:One issue likely related to SFS_load, is that menu entries are not updated till you restart X, either when you load or unload an SFS.
Also LibreOffice does not show the application icons in the menu, till you install any pet and menus are updated through the PPM call.
Try typing fixmenus in the terminal that should update the menu.

Jemimah's aware of the icon's not showing, that's to do with the SFS-loader not updating the hicolor icon cache, it's in the to do list and a patch for the SFS-loader has yet to be implemented.

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