Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Thu 23 Oct 2014, 16:59
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Puppy Package Site - Planning Stages
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 3 of 3 [41 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3
Author Message
Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan 2012, 18:39    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
However, interface is one thing, the underlying engine is the key and dependency checking is the bug bear IMO. This is more the packager's responsibility the way petget is structured at the moment. Maybe dir2pet needs to be more rigorous in checking dependencies and all of them listed in the dependency field.

And what about sfs management? Should it be part of PPM or separate?


While I do think SFS's should be in the PPM... at the same time I dont. Pets and SFSs are different beasts entirely. Not to complicate things... but I think perhaps SFS's should be in a seperate system. Not only is their use different, but their purpose was to help make puppy somewhat modular. Of course now that we have SFS load on the fly the line between pets and SFS is becoming blurred

I agree that the packager should list dependencies. I guess we need to come up with some agreed convention on how thats should be accomplished. Shouldnt be too hard to have an additional script set in dir2pet or whatever else to run ldd and then sed the output into a txt file (perhaps a .pd for pet dependency)
again... the social problem of getting everyone on board.

_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan 2012, 21:21    Post subject:  

Dependencies wouldn't be much of a problem if we had a central repo and a proper package maintenance team. All we actually need is someone to test whether or not a given package installs properly and fix it if it doesn't. A complex packaging database scheme is not needed.

It's the proliferation of puppy flavors that largely prevents the devs from teaming up on repo maintenance, leaving each dev with the impossible job of maintaining a repo by him or herself.

What can we do to encourage teamwork rather than forking? The read-only architecture of puppy, the flexibility of woof, the desirability of packages that are custom-compiled, and the ease of remastering all make forking easy and working together difficult.

The only person who commands enough respect around here to unify puppy development is Barry - and that's definitely not his style.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan 2012, 02:34    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
Dependencies wouldn't be much of a problem if we had a central repo and a proper package maintenance team. All we actually need is someone to test whether or not a given package installs properly and fix it if it doesn't. A complex packaging database scheme is not needed.

It's the proliferation of puppy flavors that largely prevents the devs from teaming up on repo maintenance, leaving each dev with the impossible job of maintaining a repo by him or herself.

What can we do to encourage teamwork rather than forking? The read-only architecture of puppy, the flexibility of woof, the desirability of packages that are custom-compiled, and the ease of remastering all make forking easy and working together difficult.

The only person who commands enough respect around here to unify puppy development is Barry - and that's definitely not his style.


Maybe, what we need is to go back to the basic concept of puppy and change it slightly (as barry did in 2.12, you are doing with saluki, stu and others, including myself, have done from time to time with various builds) and separate the Basic or Core component of Puppy from the User Applications part of Puppy, but now on a Permanent Basis.

It would mean those that were interested in the base/core part, such as BarryK is with the ARM at the moment, could concentrate on that component of Puppy, knowing that others are keeping the User side in hand and up to a reasonable standard.

Those that wanted either a General or Specific User-set Version could concentrate on that component, and even others that wanted puppy for things like firewalls, various server-types, etc., could customise a User component, while knowing the Base/Core Puppy was being looked after by those that knew that part of it.

I 'spoke', some time ago in another topic, of having multiple .sfs files matching the directory structure autoload if they existed. I wonder if, with all the work that has and is happening with sfs access and with the number of sfs's being increased and working properly afterwards, if it's time to consider this again.

It would mean that someone, and we have quite a few music/multimedia members, could form a Team and work on this specific topic with the output being a broad sfs for general release PLUS specific sfs's and Pets to cover specific function sets, such as what a Music Studio or a Band-on-the-road would need. They would be expected as part of their function, to test, update and handle problems with their group of apps, and it could be that for a particular Application, the message was that it wasn't "certified" for a particular Base other than version nnnnnn-xx.xx.x-ippp.pet! Each Package would need / must have an entry in the Additional Software Sections and all versions be in the ONE entry!

The same could be done with the Business world and Games worlds'. Graphics and Documentary are also others that come to mind that would improve greatly by this structure. Internet may be a problem, but it just means the Team would have to be a bit more 'robust' in structure.
Things like Networking, Utility, Desktop, System, Setup and Filesystem I think ?would, ?maybe at least in part, need to stay with the Base/Core Teams. Maybe these need a Single Specialist Team instead, made up of a rep from each 'certified' Puppy in the current dataset!

However on re-reading, i'm not sure if I've got too off-topic in all this, but I believe the basics of it need to be considered, at least in general, if the storage site is not to end up having to be totally re-worked every six-months / year or two and that would loose support in the userbase as you would get 'it's too hard to do anything with the site as it's always changing' messages appearing everywhere!

anyway, another five aussie cents worth

regards to all
scsijon
Afterthought: maybe it will need to 'pseudo' mirror the appropriate forum sections to work properly! OUCH!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
ecube


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Västerås, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan 2012, 05:15    Post subject: Repo maintainer offer  

jemimah wrote:

I think to start, we really need to figure out who is interested in being a repo maintainer


Jemimah,

I have some spare time and I am willing to help.

Available hardware consists of six PCs of varying age and three printers.

How do I proceed?
Very Happy
ecube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan 2012, 11:22    Post subject:  

scsijon wrote:

Those that wanted either a General or Specific User-set Version could concentrate on that component, and even others that wanted puppy for things like firewalls, various server-types, etc., could customise a User component, while knowing the Base/Core Puppy was being looked after by those that knew that part of it.


It's pretty difficult to separate the core from the user component as I am finding out. Puppy is very tightly integrated and implemented in a way that makes a lot of assumptions. Getting xfce working smoothly has required dozens of patches to core puppy scripts.

Saluki attempts to separate the base and the applications. It has one sfs - the adrive- that holds all the apps and autoloads if it exists. The adrive can be rebuilt quickly and easily, without woof. This is my attempt to make collaboration more possible.

Currently, there is no facility to tell the ppm what dependencies an installed SFS provides. This will have to be added if the adrive idea is going to work correctly with the ppm.

I don't think it should be split into more sfses than one adrive because a lot of the apps share libraries. Like I can use gstreamer for the browser and all the multimedia apps, the cd burner, the chat client, and the presentation viewer, and a maybe other stuff. However someone else may want to build around mplayer and ffmpeg or xine, so they can just dump the whole adrive and make their own without the big libs that they don't want.

It'll takes some time to see if the concept catches on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan 2012, 11:28    Post subject: Re: Repo maintainer offer  

ecube wrote:
jemimah wrote:

I think to start, we really need to figure out who is interested in being a repo maintainer


Jemimah,

I have some spare time and I am willing to help.

Available hardware consists of six PCs of varying age and three printers.

How do I proceed?
Very Happy
ecube


I can give you upload access to the saluki repo. However, it's best if you wait until I get the saluki base nailed down first because some changes I make require a lot of things to be repackaged and I don't want anyone to have to redo their work. I'll PM you the password in a couple weeks when it's ready. In the meantime feel free to provide feedback about saluki - I consider feedback from contributors the most useful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan 2012, 11:30    Post subject:  

Quote:
Currently, there is no facility to tell the ppm what dependencies an installed SFS provides


Jemimah

I posted a couple of suggestions in the Saluki thread - I don't know if they will fit with your adrive concept?

Good move though... Very Happy

Aitch Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan 2012, 13:49    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
It's pretty difficult to separate the core from the user component as I am finding out. Puppy is very tightly integrated and implemented in a way that makes a lot of assumptions. Getting xfce working smoothly has required dozens of patches to core puppy scripts.

Saluki attempts to separate the base and the applications. It has one sfs - the adrive- that holds all the apps and autoloads if it exists. The adrive can be rebuilt quickly and easily, without woof. This is my attempt to make collaboration more possible.

It'll takes some time to see if the concept catches on.


Amen to that one. I've been beating my head against a wall now for quite a while trying to get gnome3 to run without any problems. Its humbling when you start digging in and you realize how much you dont know about puppy. lol
When you are done with your xfce voyage, will you be posting the road map you used to get things to work? and which core scripts you had to tweak and how (just s simple description). Im sure that would be immensely helpful to a bunch of people.

Back on Package manager though, I was thinking more along the lines of something just for add-on programs at this point,. Sure later down the road it'd be nice to have everything, but I think if we try to do too much at once, the idea will crash and burn. I think if we start small, it may work.
I do not however want to detract anyone from their own work and what they are trying to dev just to work on this idea. We've been going for years without it, however i do hope that we could maybe get something up and running before 2020. lol

_________________



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan 2012, 14:33    Post subject:  

I've got a tarball of woof patches that I will post once I'm done tweaking them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Sun 19 Feb 2012, 15:01    Post subject:  

So I've been running the saluki repo with a few maintainers for a while now and I've been thinking about what would make life easier on the server side. (getting back to the original topic of this thread)

What would be awesome is if the server could maintain the Packages-*-official database. Ideally the the repo maintainers could upload or delete pets, and some process on the server would notice the changes and update the DB.

The second thing would be a way to have multiple accounts access the same repo. Each maintainer would have their own account so they could be cut off easily if the account is compromised. All maintainers could upload to the repo, but I think only one admin account should be able to delete or overwrite other people's uploads.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1829
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sun 19 Feb 2012, 15:17    Post subject:  

Jemimah if you provide the details in a PM I can set it up for you.

Names etc.

_________________
Puppy Software <-> Distros <-> Puppy Linux Tips
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 3 of 3 [41 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0914s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0041s) ][ GZIP on ]