Puppy with Detail (Look is Everything) Community Project

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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john biles
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Puppy with Detail (Look is Everything) Community Project

#1 Post by john biles »

Hello Everyone,
Being the developer of Legacy OS you get court up in your own little world and from time to time download and have a quick look at what the latest releases of Puppy are doing and then get back to your thing.

For unimportant reasons here, I booted up Puppy 5.2.8 did what I had to do and then decided OK lets spent some time here and see what version 5.2.8 has to offer. The team that worked and I mean WORKED! on all the series 5 releases have done an amazing job. The more time you dig deeper in to whats been done the more you realize what a creative / talented team we have here on the forum.

Now to why I'm posting this here.

The average Computer User is a visual user with no interest in what makes a Computer tick.

I'm proposing we imagine we all work for the this Software company called Puppy Linux Inc and see Puppy as a professional Operating System that costs $200 what would it look like?

What does a Wallpaper in a $200 Operating System look like? (Nude Girls, Machine Guns? Don't think so)
Same with GTK Theme, Icons, Application Icons, Menu Bar again what would you expect to see in a $200 OS?

I propose forum members wanting to join in post their interest and ideas here.
More importantly you get your hands dirty and spend hours creating drop in icon themes (A tar.gz or pet package that overwrites the default icons in Puppy with a set you'd expect to see in our imaginary $200 OS)

Got a $200 GPL Wallpaper? Post it here!
Created a $$$ Gtktheme? Post it Here!

Lastly integration, how everything interacts together. I'll tested Dream Linux 5 released last week. You boot up to this nice desktop and think "this looks promising". Only when you start using it do you realize how small things let Dream Linux down. Textmaker by all accounts in a good Application. The problem is upon opening it, your presented with a Application that looks out of place, dated. A reviewer dismissed it's inclusion without even testing it. I bet it all had to do with the fact it looked different and didn't integrate well into the system as a whole.

My point is Puppy Linux must seduce new users by offering them something that looks inviting and more importantly continue that feel right through the menu right down to the icons used in each Application.

What we create here should benefit Puppy. If we're lucky some of it might find its way in to a Puppy release itself.

I'll leave you with these screen shots from forum user battleshooter

If you were showing Linux and Puppy to someone for the first time would you show them default 5.2.8 or one of these?
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RSH
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#2 Post by RSH »

Hello, John Biles.
Look is Everything
I can't agree with this saying and i am not convinced that this should be the the "flag", puppy linux should follow or leaded by.

I am convinced to say "Look is Everything" will more fit to "dumb-shock-blonded-girls-buying-shoes-and-bags" (Sorry to say that, but it has to be said) than fit to Puppy Linux.

Do you really want to make a MicPy WinUx out of Puppy Linux?

Why?

Are you convinced to get some Windows users transformed to puppy users by doing only fattening the "graphics-desktop" package?

Some month's ago i have tried a system that's flag is "Look is everything" - Kubuntu 10.04 with KDE Desktop. I am using a computer, double-core-prozessor, 2,3GHZ and 2Gb RAM. Trying to play music and recording the played audiosignal gets kubuntu stopping the music several times until disabling the desktop effects - but not done in background, no: it gives me animated information of disabling the desktop effects, that again has stopped the music! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The usually windows user (the ones i know) are guy's that want to impress and get impressed by doing window-closing-stuff using "mousequakes" (mouse gestures).

I do missing the time when a computer-user could impress its firend's, partner's etc.pp by doing his work instead of mousequakes, translucent windows and stuff like that.

Downloading tons of terabytes of illegal stuff (music, movies, software etc) and getting orgasms about the use of transparent windows while doing this is the windows user i do mostly know.

You will never get these guys to be puppy linux users!

I am sure.

RSH

Getting the Earth destroyed and man infested - but with nice looking tools like cars, planes, mobile phones!
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy[/url][/b]
[b][url=http://rshs-dna.weebly.com]RSH's DNA[/url][/b]
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91422][b]SARA B.[/b][/url]

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#3 Post by john biles »

Hello RSH,
I should have said "Look is Everything once you've got the system right". In Puppy 5.2.8 the systems right, but the look while good, could be better.

This is not about dumping KDE 4.7.4 in to Puppy. It's about refining what's already there. Forum member "battleshooter" screen shots showed what could be achieved using Fluxbox not KDE or Gnome.

Kubuntu 10.04 through to 11.10 show a progress and improvements but is let down in so many ways. I tried to use Kubuntu but am left disappointed.
The only usable version of Ubuntu 11.10 series is xubuntu.
Some month's ago i have tried a system that's flag is "Look is everything" - Kubuntu 10.04 with KDE Desktop. I am using a computer, double-core-prozessor, 2,3GHZ and 2Gb RAM. Trying to play music and recording the played audiosignal gets kubuntu stopping the music several times until disabling the desktop effects - but not done in background, no: it gives me animated information of disabling the desktop effects, that again has stopped the music!
I am replying to you on a 667Mhz Pentium III with 256Mb's of Ram which is used mainly as the families Juke Box connected to an old fashion Amplifier with big Speakers. (None of this Ipod 2 inch speaker crap) running Legacy OS 4 Mini (Testing) which comes with Amarok 1.4.7 by default. I can surf the net while my family enjoy their music.

Legacy OS is about still having a good looking desktop with usable Apps for old PC's, Bloated Apps are out.

Part of developing Legacy OS is how it looks. I get the Apps working right then go over them one by one to see if I can improve the way they look.

One advantage of a GTK theme if done right when changing an icon which is part of the theme, that icon flows through in to all or most of the GTK based apps installed in Puppy.

The usually windows user (the ones i know) are guy's that want to impress and get impressed by doing window-closing-stuff using "mousequakes" (mouse gestures).

I do missing the time when a computer-user could impress its firend's, partner's etc.pp by doing his work instead of mousequakes, translucent windows and stuff like that.

Downloading tons of terabytes of illegal stuff (music, movies, software etc) and getting orgasms about the use of transparent windows while doing this is the windows user i do mostly know.

You will never get these guys to be puppy linux users!

I am sure.

RSH
Personally I couldn't give a stuff about Windows Users. I was thinking about Puppy Users / Linux Users in general.

I think it nice to use a Computer that appealing to look at. Why do I have to look at ugly icons etc when I don't have to?

This post is about the look and feel of Puppy. Not about filling Puppy with Bloated Apps.

Here's an example of what I mean.
GTK 1.2 based Gcontab as in Puppy 2.14 (Gcrontab.jpg) and after just the icons were updated in Legacy OS 2 (Gcrontab-Legacy-OS.jpg). Same app requiring the same resources not a replacement bloated app. Imagine Pburn with a set of beautiful icons, it lifts the app to another level.
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#4 Post by jemimah »

No matter what you pick it seems two thirds of users will think it's ugly. :)

Anyway I agree with John Biles - look and feel is of primary importance.

I'm definitely interested in design and usability help with Saluki.
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#5 Post by john biles »

Hello jemimah,
I've just been reading your "Saluki" thread my God you've been busy, thanks for taking the time to reply to this thread.
No matter what you pick it seems two thirds of users will think it's ugly.
Very True! This thread is about finding the middle ground. A look no one really loves or hates I guess.
Legacy OS 2017 has been released.

stu90

#6 Post by stu90 »

Hi John Biles,
While i dont agree that looks are everything - they are a major part of one's first and ongoing impressions.

A real bug-bear for me is:
Desktop icons - they clutter up the desktop, easy alternatives are available to tidy things up.
Volume icon - why is the default volume icons like something from 1980 - easily fixed
Submenu pixmap icons - these are hideously ugly, why do we even need them - several windows managers don't have icons at all, i also remove them via fixmenus for JWM.
Rox-filer icons - again the defaults are ugly - i made a theme switcher for these, while it doesn't work with every windows manager it does in my opinion improve the icons.
For wallpapers i get them daily from National Geographic and Nasa - more often than not these are stunning and interesting images and work great as desktop wallpapers.

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you are never going to please all people all of the time but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try - there is a visual middle of the road out there and we need to find it then apply it to puppy. 8)

My current desktop - still room for improvement but several applications following the same icon theme.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/WrOnc.jpg

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#7 Post by nooby »

The in word is "ugly". Sure I do agree 100% but the crazy
thing is that what looks okay for me can be totally or absolutely ugly for you. Totally unpredictable I guess.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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#8 Post by smokey01 »

Consider this:

You go to a motor show and there are 10 cars to view. Nine are dull, small and unattractive, however the 10th is a shiny red Ferrari.

Which one catches your eye?

Now the sales person says you can have one for free (same price as Puppy)

Which one do you choose?

Are you able to drive it?

Does it have the features you like?

There are many analogies I could have used, but yes, looks is the first thing that catches your eye unless you are blind.

Priority

1. Looks
2. Ease of use
3. Features

postfs1

Re: Puppy with Detail (Look is Everything) Community Project

#9 Post by postfs1 »

john biles wrote:
I'm proposing we imagine we all work for the this Software company called Puppy Linux Inc and see Puppy as a professional Operating System that costs $200 what would it look like?
Like the game which i have got from the toy store - i have read the instruction, have unpacked the "game" and then i am playing with the joy. If some of the devices do not work then i remove the problem in the "device manager" program. Some games have such a design that right wow.

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#10 Post by battleshooter »

Hi John, thanks for the kudos :)

I'm all for a nice looking Puppy. Puppy has plenty of functionality, I don't see why the default theme can't be updated a little. I rather liked smokey01's analogy with the cars. Puppy certainly has the goods under the hood, but maybe could do with a paint job. (I hesitate to comment negatively on Puppy's looks, because there's no doubt someone loves it :? )

Here's a package that will turn the default Puppy theme into Faenza.

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-042b36db.html

It doesn't change pixmaps and some icons here and there, that'll take more work, but this is just a basic quick change up.

What it changes
Changes existing mimetype icons to Faenza
Image
Adds a powerapplet_tray recompiled with a Faenza theme
Adds a freememapplet_tray recompiled with a Faenza theme
Gives Retrovol a Faenza theme
Adds 2 extra themes for network_tray, one for dark panels, one for light panels (Needs to be manually selected)
Image
Adds Faenza icon theme for desktop
Image
gtkrc.mine changes the default GTK icons to Faenza-This will change the icons in various GTK applications, for example:
ImageImage
Changes ROX's default icon
Image

If you have your own custom gtkrc.mine, Retrovol, freememapplet_tray, or powerapplet_tray you'll want to back them up as the pet will overwrite them. The pet pretty much overrides everything it changes.

As stated before, it's just an example of how Pup can be updated. It doesn't have to be Faenza, I just like it and it's fairly complete. It could be Elementary, Oxygen, or really any complete icon set.

Image

Edit: I don't particularly think this is a $200 wallpaper, it's just what I have up right now!
[url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94580]LMMS 1.0.2[/url], [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94593]Ardour 3.5.389[/url], [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94629]Kdenlive 0.9.8[/url]

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#11 Post by john biles »

Hello battleshooter,
Perfect :!:

Lets imagine Puppy users were asked to submit icons sets, Wallpapers, gtktkemes, Desktop Managers (JWM, ICEWM, FLUXBOX etc).

Once a sizable collection was reach, the community would be asked to vote on what Wallpaper, icon set, Desktop Manager etc should be default.

There's a number of ways to create a final iso.

This idea got full backing from the Official Puppy team.
A Puplet originating from this post
A Pet package to update the official Version.

battleshooter, one question? How much extra MB's did you creations in the 2 example desktops add roughly. I think most Puppy users could live with a 10MB increase in iso size for the right User experience.
Legacy OS 2017 has been released.

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#12 Post by battleshooter »

john biles wrote:How much extra MB's did you creations in the 2 example desktops add roughly. I think most Puppy users could live with a 10MB increase in iso size for the right User experience.
Good estimate John, I extracted the pets I made out of the two Conky setups and it came up to 11MB including three themes. As a pet it comes up to 5MB.

Flux- 975KB
Conky- 286KB
Conky deps- 3041KB
Themes including theme chooser- 63KB
= 4938KB
[url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94580]LMMS 1.0.2[/url], [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94593]Ardour 3.5.389[/url], [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94629]Kdenlive 0.9.8[/url]

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#13 Post by RSH »

Found older thread, "Puppy 4.2 - Desktop and Artwork"
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34331
There are several desktop icon themes to download.
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy[/url][/b]
[b][url=http://rshs-dna.weebly.com]RSH's DNA[/url][/b]
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91422][b]SARA B.[/b][/url]

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#14 Post by jemimah »

The next release of saluki will include:
  • every major gtk theme engine

    a large number of fonts

    cursor themes

    full size icons throughout entire menu - no mini icons

    complete gnome icon set - this can be swapped out, (and an easy switcher is included) but gnome is the only one i know for sure is complete

    compositing and true transparency out of the box

    highly customizable and integrated xfce desktop environment

    every useful xfce panel applet that I could find - I prefer this over conky and docks because my desktop is usually covered with windows

    community contributed wallpapers
There are no applications yet because I'm really trying to get core usability issues sorted first. I'm attempting to improve most of the basic puppy utilities that still look they belong in the 90s.

For people who care about user experience, Saluki is the puplet to contribute to. If you make artwork you think I should include just let me know!

With no apps, complete kernel, and full Xorg Saluki is still under 85MB.

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#15 Post by john biles »

Hello battleshooter,
Not bad at all 11Mb's

Iwent back to your original posts in "My Puppy is more gorgeous than yours!"
and followed the links to how your created those looks.

Question is "Have you created pets already for those packages and if not would you?". I think a lot of Puppy users would enjoy a desktop that looked like those in the screenshots.

jemimah,
Thanks for starting the "Saluki" project am looking forward to your next development release.
There are no applications yet because I'm really trying to get core usability issues sorted first. I'm attempting to improve most of the basic puppy utilities that still look they belong in the 90s
.

Right on the Money! While it's easy to change a Wallpaper, Desktop Manager etc to get a wow first impression. Disappointment sets in as a user navigates those 90's looking apps. These need to look as good as the Desktop does.

RSH,
Thanks for the link!
This got me thinking "Old Posts get lost over time which contain useful information."
If anyone knows of a Old Post that might be of interest to this post, please post it here.
Legacy OS 2017 has been released.

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RSH
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#16 Post by RSH »

Do we have an Icon Editor for puppy (that hopefully works in Lucid)?
[b][url=http://lazy-puppy.weebly.com]LazY Puppy[/url][/b]
[b][url=http://rshs-dna.weebly.com]RSH's DNA[/url][/b]
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91422][b]SARA B.[/b][/url]

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#17 Post by TheProphet »

One neat-o thing I've been working with is My Own Mini-App for self hypnosis, and compositing comes in very handy for it.To be more specific a function called transset-df which sets transparency of windows, thus I can have two or more windows overlapping each other as transparent layers.

I use a transparent spinning hypno-wheel .gif file (hurry and get yours, there's only about eleventy-bazillion of them on the Net.) overlaid on this rsvp reader called WordFlashReader, which is a compiled .bin program of Dictator. Not the Microsux one where it poorly attempts speech recognition, but a hopped up word reader. Run the reader at about two or three times the speed of what you can read consciously and overlay it with the hypno-wheel, wham bam thank you ma'am you have your very own Subliminal Video generator
There's also in the Legacy OS-2 Puppy a proggie for making a screenshot video. Defaults at 6 frames per second, eh? Which you can speed up in about half of the out of the box video players on Puppy.

Right now I'm mostly playing around with it, seeing if it helps with word-by-word memorization. I quote the Bible a lot, and Shakespeare etc.
It helps greatly if you know which one you're quoting. Also knowing the difference between say (in the U.S.) the Constitution, The Gettysburg Address and the Pledge of Allegiance.

If you're trying to make a legal case and say "liberty and justice for all" you're actually quoting the pledge. Not Legally Binding.
Same with "government of the people by the people and for the people" isn't the Constitution either.

We've a really weak Public Education system here in America, a Liberal construct administered by Conservatives who don't want it to even exist. So you'd not be amazed, if you've conversed with Americans on any given subject, to find that most of us can't even properly use the English language, Heaven forfend that one should know any other languages and of course our laws and history.

A subliminal version of Flash-cards, perhaps? But right now it's just an experiment of mine.
Probably others are doing the same.

See, eye-candy does have a practical function or three built in.

My xcompmgr in Legacy has for some reason flaked on me between going to bed last night and waking up this morning, and I'm going through threads looking for clues to help me set it right. This one caught my eye.

I'm doing as the Linux motto says, "Have a lot of fun".
He who skydive without parachute, jumps to own conclusion.

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#18 Post by TheProphet »

RSH wrote:Do we have an Icon Editor for puppy (that hopefully works in Lucid)?
That's the other thing I wanted to look at, editing Karamba, I took out K-mess which is the Microsux Nutwerks Messenger (Pidgin is better) and filled its slot with the link to the WordFlashPlayer binary. which has an Icon with the extension .ico, all the other icons in the Karamba launcher have the .png extension and the path isn't an absolute path, it says "img/kmess.png" or "img/opera.png" without saying where the source images actually are. I put in the absolute address for the image in the WFPlayer directory and just have a blank space in the Karamba launcher.

It's more annoying than anything else, since it's my own Puppy computer and I know where to click to open it.
He who skydive without parachute, jumps to own conclusion.

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#19 Post by battleshooter »

Coolness Jemimah, I've been looking forward to Saluki for awhile now but I didn't know it was going to be that awesome :) So glad something is being done about the retro icons and the overall slickness of Puppy. Really impressed you're even adding various GTK engines. Can I help in anyway? Maybe dig up elusive icons for you or modify icon themes. I'm not too artistic, but I appreciate good looking eye candy.

@John

Those two screenshots were actually off a Conky project I was setting up, it can be found here. It's still pretty rough around the edges because I'm not familiar with how to add text to the end of existing files. eg. Add some additional commands to the end of Nathan's wallpaper setter to create a fake transparency for Conky. If I have that down, I might be able to make installation a bit more automated :? I just haven't had time to look up how it's done.

Edit: My filehost Fileden is playing up at moment so no screenshots show up and files can't be downloaded :?

@RSH and TheProphet

What did you guys mean by "Icon Editor"? You mean something that will rename icons to the names they need to be to make an iconset like home48, www48, etc?
[url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94580]LMMS 1.0.2[/url], [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94593]Ardour 3.5.389[/url], [url=http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=94629]Kdenlive 0.9.8[/url]

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#20 Post by john biles »

Hello TheProphet,
You'll find the Karamba theme files in root under .kde/share/apps/karamba/themes/

In the themes folder are a config file and a folder called img

Lets say I want to use an icon called wfp.png simply copy it in to the img folder. The default icon size is 32x32

Now I get the impression you've worked that by right clicking on the Karamba sidebar and selected "edit configuration" the editor will open. To change the icon, navigate to img/kmess.png and change it to img/wfp.png
Now hit save.

On the Karamba sidebar right click and select "reload configuration" and you icon should appear.

Hello battleshooter,
I'll checkout the link, thanks!
Legacy OS 2017 has been released.

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