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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Standard/Advanced Menus
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Diggs


Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jan 2012, 22:12    Post subject:  Standard/Advanced Menus
Subject description: Initial user setting for regular or advanced menu system.
 

Puppy has so much in it's menu system and much of it is so cryptic that the novice or new user can be easy baffled and intimidated by the multitude of choices in each sub-menu. When I introduce new users to Puppy I have wished for a "Basic" or "Standard" menu setting that hides 2/3 of the menu items that a new user is very unlikely to use. Present them the initial option of just the basics and the ability to turn on and off the advanced items of each (or all) sub-menus. I think this would go a long way in promoting the user-friendliness of Puppy.

Just my $.02.
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jan 2012, 23:47    Post subject: Standard/Advanced
Subject description: Got an Idea!
 

Hi.

I think i have one way (actually cooking in my head) how this could be done (easy to use for the new linux user).

Would you please suggest, what should be available in the standard menu? I will try some work on this. It should be easily done using shellscript (i hope so).

RSH

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Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jan 2012, 23:58    Post subject:  

I can make some suggestions, but I'm sure there are others out there that would do a much better job of it.
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15122
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 00:12    Post subject:  

good plan

If possible
I believe Beginner/Intermediary/Advanced would be better

Beginner
Part of the problem is the names
eg menu/Exit
restart JWM
restart x
etc


power off
restart
all a beginner needs

Help (no probs can stay in all levels)

Fun (which is not much fun but would leave in)

now up to multimedia (yuk)

OK
I do not even know where to begin with that . . . m m m
I would just have Gnome Mplayer (Puppy 5.3.1)
but 'Gnome Mplayer' - geeky nothing
so it should be called Play media - because that is what it does
I would add mywavedit
What does it do? 'Record and edit' so that becomes the label

. . . that should get you started . . . Cool

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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 02:00    Post subject: Standard/Advanced Menus
Subject description: New Menu Project - Edit 1- Hard cutdown - only for testing without save file!
 

Hi,

Is that quick? So, what do you think about this?

This is a very hard cutdown - just to show its possibilities.

Did only beginner and advanced edited. Only for testing and improving.

Please, do not use your favorite save file to improve that!

After installing and (automatically) refreshing menu run "beginner" or "advanced" in the "state of user" menu above help menu.

This one is only edited for fbpanel - but i am able to do this for openbox, fluxbox, jwm and icewm as well.

RSH

P.S.

I must have to go to bed and sleep some hours. Would you please create and post any suggestions of every menu entry and its wanted subs, to give me a line to work. I don't want to break my mind by thinking and doing this alone.

Thank you.

Edit - 2012-01-12: removed the .pet for testing; not longer needed!

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Last edited by RSH on Thu 12 Jan 2012, 00:32; edited 5 times in total
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stu90


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 1401
Location: England. Dell Inspiron 1501. Dpup

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 03:11    Post subject:  

I like to use 'myGTKmenu' (this is the name of the menu application i didnt make it) for custom menus then map it to the left mouse button - on puppy i use this menu more than openbox menu! ( i posted a pet somewhere for it on the forum )

Syb menus are supported and configuration is done by a single text file with simple entry:
item = Terminal
cmd = urxvt
icon = /usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps/console48.png


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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 18:40    Post subject: Standard/Advanced Menus  

stu90 wrote:
I like to use 'myGTKmenu' (this is the name of the menu application i didn't make it) for custom menus then map it to the left mouse button - on puppy i use this menu more than openbox menu! ( i posted a pet somewhere for it on the forum )

This is really a nice little menu. Unfortunately i believe it is not what is needed to get this one project solved. I am still a "newbie" too and i remember exactly what has made me much confused the first time i used puppy (muppy 08.3F aka minisys-linux).

When ever i tried to select several desktop icons the way i do this in windows, i did not get the "rubberband". Instead of the rubberband icewm comes up with desktop and/or window selection. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

I believe to get a third and different menu to the other menus by clicking on the desktop will make the new linux user unnecessary much more confused as the new linux user already is (when he runs a puppy at first time).

RSH wrote:
Hi,

Is that quick?


Yes, but a little too fast!

One should not start a new work if one has already worked 20 hours and more. He better should go to bed and sleep! Very Happy

However: i have tested this one in some other puppies (wary, slacko, muppy) and it works. BUT: the way it has been done is usable only as long as you do not install new software. This way any .desktop file of a new installed software will get lost after changing from "beginner" to "advanced" (f.e.). Embarassed

So, what is needed, is a script running in background as long as puppy runs (or automatically started after installing new software and refreshing the menu). It should observe the "applications" directory. If new program is installed it should find the new .desktop file in "applications" and move it to a (the) specified directory and set a link to it in "applications".

Edit: it should know the difference between a real file and a link!

I am sure, this will work (in my german brain i can see the whole thing running - unfortunately i do have to talk to you in English). Sad

I will go to the programmers forum and make a post. Some of these experts must have the solution and/or surely some suggestions to provide us to get this one working. I am sure about that. Very Happy

RSH

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 19:27    Post subject:  

What we really need is a puppy for newbies that doesn't come with a bunch of confusing crap in the first place.

Come contribute to the Saluki project!
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=73687
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 20:02    Post subject: Standard/Advanced Menus  

I had to apologize!

Unfortunately i forgot to copy the pfbpanel into /usr/sbin inside the pet! Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

Uploaded a new one (my 2. post above), that works!!! Very Happy

RSH

RSH wrote:
One should not start a new work if one has already worked 20 hours and more. He better should go to bed and sleep!


Edit - 2012-01-12: .pet removed - not longer needed!

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Last edited by RSH on Thu 12 Jan 2012, 00:31; edited 2 times in total
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nancy reagan

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 518

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 16:24    Post subject: from a low profile wannabee user  

What I think would be most illuminating, is to call things by a common name.

Windowers have no clue about Abowird.

My suggestion is: 1. name of the function (wordprocessor, spreadsheet) followed by 2. it funny names (e.g. pudd, gdmap, retrovol alsamixer etc.)

At least thus it worked by me. Did not give it a proper look sometimes hit by incidence the proper button and hence got around a bit in Puppy.

Pity, because it is so rich and full featured and yet mainly used by tweakers instead of average users.

Landed at linux because somebody broke my XP, got so intrigued so that I got lost in Puppy.

SFS's Pet's Slickpet Quickpet ???? it is just puppytalk between tweakers. Therefore linux and/or puppy will never become as popular as it should be, according to its possibilities.
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 16:43    Post subject:  Standard/Advanced Menus
Subject description: SOLVED (step 1) and running in LazY Puppy 528-4
 

First (BIG) step is done!


New menu entry "Start Puppy as..." above menu>help

- 3 Subs added

* Beginner
* Intermediary
* Advanced

- (following Lobster's suggestions)

The Images do not show the solution for the menu entries in menu>multimedia. This is just an edit to show its possibilities.

More Info to come when i have posted the .pet for LazY Puppy 5.2.8-4. Then there will be one .pet for the latest standard lucid as well.

Actually it seems, this could work on all other puppies as well...


Idea Please, make suggestions to the menu title "Start Puppy as..."

Just like:

- Run Puppy as...
- Use Puppy as...
- I am a...
- Must be a...

(Beginner, Intermediary, Advanced)

Question I am not sure about which one to release...

Please...

RSH

Note, as almost always in my images: It will show the English menu if English keyboard layout is set.
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 16:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
What I think would be most illuminating, is to call things by a common name.

Windowers have no clue about Abowird.

My suggestion is: 1. name of the function (wordprocessor, spreadsheet) followed by 2. it funny names (e.g. pudd, gdmap, retrovol alsamixer etc.)

At least thus it worked by me. Did not give it a proper look sometimes hit by incidence the proper button and hence got around a bit in Puppy.

Pity, because it is so rich and full featured and yet mainly used by tweakers instead of average users.

Landed at linux because somebody broke my XP, got so intrigued so that I got lost in Puppy.

SFS's Pet's Slickpet Quickpet ???? it is just puppytalk between tweakers. Therefore linux and/or puppy will never become as popular as it should be, according to its possibilities.


Hi Nancy, you had posted while i am editing my previous post. When you please take a look...

This is almost exactly what i have done in my LazY Puppy 528-4 - but only on the german menu entries. Unfortunately i did not have the spot on English newbies at that time. Embarassed

I did for example: "MhWavedit Audioaufnahme" which means "mhwaveedit audiorecording" (as you can see in the images). Therefor i'd edited every single .desktop file and added "Name[de], Comment[de] etc. (such a monotonous work sizzles the worker's brain)

RSH

Thank you for your suggestions.

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Volhout


Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 418

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 12:15    Post subject: program name  

For a beginner, I would hide the program name, only leave the functional description in the menu. If a beginner wanted to know what program he actually started he can always browse to the "about" menu. To a beginner it is absolutely not important what mediaplayer he uses, as long as it plays his media. Not important what browser he uses, as long as it works well on his internet pages.

To be honest, I would probably stay in "beginner" mode.....

Is there any benefit in following:

Beginner mode: only basic icons on the desktop (i.e. browser, mediaplayer, word processor, home (or my documents), shutdown), and a rightclick menu like browserlinux has with some 10-15 additional progs. No puppy menu at all.
Oh yeah, make sure there is a decent browser in the basic iso. Ik really LOVE the 52x series and use them every day, but this (IMHO) was a bad decission. I often use puppy CD to recover systems, and always run into this problem. Have you ever tried to download drivers (recover a WNDWS system...) from the HP site without a decent browser ?
Please look at Browserlinux501 for a good basic beginner OS.

Advanced mode: add a puppy menu

Expert mode: drop to the commandline and close X.
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nancy reagan

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 518

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 13:03    Post subject:  

Well when I would have seen this in the menu when I first entered puppy I would not have given any notice to this entry MHWavedit Audioaufnahme.

Too long a sentence for somebody always being in a hurry.

Only after having read some posts people talking about this or that a recognised some entries.

However for somebody entering from day 1 I would suggest:

AUDIOAUFNAHME
- mhwavedit.
HD BACKUP - pudd
VIDEO EDITOR - Openshot

I think this -jumps- to the eye.

Of course no idea how much extra work this would cost, but maybe one day you might think "was will ich Heute mal machen ? .." then you could etc.
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2012, 18:35    Post subject:  

Volhout wrote:
For a beginner, I would hide the program name,

This would be only possible if you create "doubles" of the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications. Because the names shown in the menu are listed in there. There is one .desktop file for each menu entry (application). If you got 200 entries you have to create 200 .desktop files for "beginner" and then also for "intermediary" and "advanced".

New installed programs would not have those "doubles", so they must be edited by the user who has installed the program etc.pp.

I think this will not be possible to do it an easy way.

nancy reagan wrote:
AUDIOAUFNAHME - mhwavedit.
HD BACKUP - pudd
VIDEO EDITOR - Openshot

I think this -jumps- to the eye.


Yes, this -jumps- to the eye. But it is not possible to do so. In the .desktop files you can not use the command [ b ] as it is used inside these posts.

This one will work and maybe even jumps a bit to the eye...

AUDIOAUFNAHME - mhwavedit

Volhout wrote:
Is there any benefit in following:

Beginner mode: only basic icons on the desktop... ... ...

This is something i have already thought about. Still working on it and there will be (if possible for me to do) an option to get only basic icons automatically when entering "beginner"-mode.

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