Saluki

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jemimah · #321 Post by **jemimah** » Wed 14 Dec 2011, 02:12

sunburnt wrote:Same suggestion I and others have made many times before...

The Puppy Save file has always been it`s achilles heel, make the main ( large ) apps. SFS files.
This way they don`t take up the Save file, and they can be updated easily.
Plus the apps. files don`t have to be tracked for uninstalling, a big plus.

Example: Firefox was the best, but now it only gives me fits of trouble.
Having several builds and versions might improve on this situation.
Being SFS files they`re easily swapped, or run many until you find a good one.

# Main Apps.: Browsers, media players, Skype, Office apps., ( others ), etc...

Well you'll get your wish. Saluki 003 will have no apps at all.

smokey01 · #322 Post by **smokey01** » Wed 14 Dec 2011, 07:26

I wonder how difficult it would be to have a script that would strip all of the unneeded drivers. In other words once Saluki has been installed the unused drivers could be removed from the OS for that particular computer.

I guess it would be along similar lines to Puppeee.

That might make the OS lighter and run faster.

Just a thought.

Sage · #323 Post by **Sage** » Wed 14 Dec 2011, 07:43

Printing:
Someone isn't writing to their Revenue?! Or their MP when the Revenue screws up?! Or their local councillor when they disappear into a hole in the road?! Or their local supermarket for overcharging?! Penny for every time I tell my kids they're wasting their time and money trying to complain by telephone or email. The Law only respects reports and complaints when the complainant has contacted the agency by letter - to their head office - making sure to include the phrase 'without prejudice' (it's a legal device). If folks fail to follow this procedure agencies have put in place minions with little authority to ignore or send out bland communiques deflecting any adverse comment and exhonorating (and I am fed up of this board's failure to recognise correct OED words!) said agency.
ipso facto, a basic printing capability from a basic editor/WP is, inter alia, essential. There are other things that a compact distro could eliminate. Games are a worthless addition these days - better stuff on mobiles and hardened gamers will be using their major system.
Any road up, Barry solved all this a long time ago? A basic utility fires up to download a print driver of choice. Folks can read the identity of their printer - it's emblazoned on the front of the case!
Browsers:
Agreed: SM is a disaster, but not as much as recent Firefoxen. Opera is my choice - they tend to do things properly. However, to get started, only Dillo or Netsurf is necessary, especially if mick's strategy of including a Quickset is incorporated to permit freedom to screw up by inappropriate user choice after succeeding in getting
a) a picture
b) a connection
c) sound

Sage · #324 Post by **Sage** » Wed 14 Dec 2011, 08:04

Developers living in Florida should be careful not to get distracted with coding problems when driving into holes in the road:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16173757

technosaurus · #325 Post by **technosaurus** » Wed 14 Dec 2011, 09:12

smokey01 wrote:I wonder how difficult it would be to have a script that would strip all of the unneeded drivers. In other words once Saluki has been installed the unused drivers could be removed from the OS for that particular computer.

I guess it would be along similar lines to Puppeee.

That might make the OS lighter and run faster.

Just a thought.

look up zdrv cutter - several people have used it in their puplets

jemimah · #326 Post by **jemimah** » Wed 14 Dec 2011, 21:27

The real trick would be to delete the only the modules that your machine can't ever need - and leave drivers for random usb stuff.

I probably will have a separate zdrive during development, but Tman tells me there are issues with some drivers not loading if there is a zdrive. I'm not sure how true that is. I guess we'll find out.

pemasu · #327 Post by **pemasu** » Wed 14 Dec 2011, 21:32

b43 didnt load in dpup exprimo when I made one build at early stage with separate z...sfs. It was fixed immediately when I dismissed that separate z..sfs.
I think it was DaveS who suffered from that b43 not loading and he reported also the success in next build without zdrive. I dont recall any other problems with zdrive.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 053#549053

Around that post are feedback when I made separate z....sfs build.

technosaurus · #328 Post by **technosaurus** » Thu 15 Dec 2011, 00:28

jemimah wrote:The real trick would be to delete the only the modules that your machine can't ever need - and leave drivers for random usb stuff.

I probably will have a separate zdrive during development, but Tman tells me there are issues with some drivers not loading if there is a zdrive. I'm not sure how true that is. I guess we'll find out.

this sounds like a case of not running depmod

cthisbear · #329 Post by **cthisbear** » Thu 15 Dec 2011, 11:47

b43 ...that's Broadcom....right.

Cos it fails in Saluki on a Dell Studio XPS.

Chris.

rjbrewer · #330 Post by **rjbrewer** » Thu 15 Dec 2011, 16:21

cthisbear wrote:b43 ...that's Broadcom....right.

Cos it fails in Saluki on a Dell Studio XPS.

Chris.

Tried it on a Latitude D610; uses B43 pcmcia module.
Was failing to find interface.

Went to setup > configure startup > give preference to
module.

Changed bcm43xx:ssb, to ssb:bcm43xx.
Also blacklisted ssb.
Seems to have helped.

On that Dell, the little Windows wifi light also needs to be
on; unlke some other Dell laptops I've seen.

pemasu · #331 Post by **pemasu** » Thu 15 Dec 2011, 21:33

Misinformation. I thought that all-firmware should have b43 folder with firmwares but they seemed to be in /lib/firmware folder already. Wrong alarm. Sorry about this post. But I thought that I post something than remove just content. Lol.

peebee · #332 Post by **peebee** » Thu 15 Dec 2011, 21:42

pemasu wrote:Misinformation. I thought that all-firmware should have b43 folder with firmwares but they seemed to be in /lib/firmware folder already. Wrong alarm. Sorry about this post. But I thought that I post something than remove just content. Lol.

Hi pemasu

/lib/firmware/b43 has all the firmware.

My B43 works fine with saluki as it is based on racy and is NOT currently a 3-series kernel....

I think Barry decided in racy - which is series 3 kernel - to provide the B43 firmware already unpacked so all that is then needed on racy is to force load the B43 driver - this does not apply to saluki.

Cheers
peebee

CLAM01 · #333 Post by **CLAM01** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 03:00

jemimah, Tman and all,
The Saluki project looks interesting, especially with the fork to build with an essentials core surrounded by user-selectable sfs add-ons. It is much easier to keep track of what fits into a small core and to isolate problems that may come into a system with parts of sfs-isolated add-ons.

In today's insecurity environment puppies are meeting some problems for the woof core having all sorts added into it and then just being used. Something that slips in, or is slipped in, with a program may not be noticed and be spread around with the woof it's in. A problem puppy's "benevolent dictator" core controller model has is that a single sentry is easier to slip things by than many. When the one sentry is focused to a project and busy the sentry-duty part can go by the way. A small core is easier to police, and the more who are looking into its parts, adjusting and tuning, the more and he better the policing, and the more likelihood of anything untoward being found.

The solar core with planetary sfs's will make it easy to select and deselect for particular needs, letting the user modify his system more or less on the fly. A scanning-printing sfs, for example, could be left out, hooked in when needed, then put back on the shelf, in /home until next wanted. I would suggest sfs add-ons in two groups, one of groups, or selections of programs and apps, the other of individual apps, for example, office, printing, graphics group sfs's (of various flavors), and also specific office, printing and graphics sfs's. Lots of flexibility.

in 2009 and '10 jrb built ChoicePup along this sun and satellites plan. He began in 2009 with 412 and apparently closed shop after doing 431 in early 2010. Archives of his "barebones" cores (about 60M) and sfs's (at least the 4's) are accessible through http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... &start=120 .

Another thing a new branch of puppy needs is to have the init system modified so a puppy can be launched true live-CD. You may have noticed that puppies all probe the HD, snooping the partition table, even when launched pfix=ram. There does now exist malware capable of installing itself as a "guest OS" in "free" space on an HD. Once it has set itself up it boots from the partition table. This means that a puppy.iso will boot the "guest" OS before it boots itself. Also, because puppies auto-start a web connection on start-up (which not even MS Vista does), it opens a connection for the "guest" OS to communicate home through immediately it starts. To clear out the "guest" you have to remove its partition. To do that now, you have to run a non-puppy live-CD OS, that is a real live-CD, to get around the mounted-partition locks that protect the "guest" OS. This is a real problem in puppy. Puppies are not immune to these. I managed to collect one that came with files downloaded with firefox on a recent puppy. Its parts were hidden amongst some of the twenty-eight social-media and advertising files that accompanied a download. I don't know if they attacked from the pup-save or not, because I moved the download to a folder in /mnt/home, on a 3fs extended partition. I noticed the problem from having a blank screen and disk activity when the guest re-arranged my disk to make a 20gb 4th primary partition for itself. Had I been running Windows I would have been given the "Windows is installing your updates" screen, and, being a trusting everyday user, I would have believed the screen...

Lobster · #334 Post by **Lobster** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 06:21

thanks for the guest OS info CLAM01
have added here as it deserves further clarification, that may hijack this thread and I believe applies to all Puppys

http://puppylinux.info/topic/firefox-extras

Hugh · #335 Post by **Hugh** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 06:58

Aye, the "Guest OS" and other potential
security weaknesses are a very serious
concern.

The way Saluki seems to be shaping up is
very encouraging. I especially like the
thoughts regarding innovative methods of
enhancing the flexibility of "installing" apps
and drivers with potential for ease of updates
and/or painless changes.

This project may herald a new approach to
Puppy by showing us a better way to demonstrate
all that it is capable of doing! With much less
hassle!

It is so good to see Jemimah back in the groove!

Something tells me this one is gonna be a great
one!

technosaurus · #336 Post by **technosaurus** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:04

just posted a <1Mb initrd that boots straight to jwm and brings up an rxvt terminal
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 511#589511

also included a build of qemu to run it, I have an arm build of qemu too if anyone wants to experiment with arm

jemimah · #337 Post by **jemimah** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 18:35

Download saluki-003.

http://www.smokey01.com/jemimah/saluki/isos/

Currently it has no applications and no printer drivers.

The kernel is 2.6.39 i686 SMP PREEMPT built by Pemasu.

I've done a bit of cleanup and added a control panel. The freememapplet is patched with a menu entry for increasing save file size.

My next projects are acpid, frisbee, sfs-on-the-fly, and various other enhancements.

sunburnt · #338 Post by **sunburnt** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 18:58

Hi jemimah; I hadn`t noticed if Puppy still supports a Save partition.

My thought has always been... Why a whole partition? Why not a Save dir.?
This way the Save`s size is not limited by it`s file or partition size.
Obviously the dir`s. partition limits it`s size, but most partitions are tens to hundreds of GBs in size.
So the Save dir. would have almost unlimited space to expand into.

Setup would need to check for available Linux partitions to use of course.

# So how about options for: a Save File, or a Save Dir.?

A Save partition is unlikely to be used, so don`t bother if there isn`t one already.

Billtoo · #339 Post by **Billtoo** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 19:42

I did a manual frugal install of luki003 to an HP desktop pc.
First boot worked well to set up the screen resolution etc. and
rebooted loading the devx and my xineplus-racy-i686.sfs (it has 6 apps
in it).
Also installed pupsnap to get a screen shot.
I need to track down the kernel source sfs next to allow me to install
the nvidia driver.
It startled me when it said goodbye, I'm glad the volume wasn't real
high

jemimah · #340 Post by **jemimah** » Fri 16 Dec 2011, 19:52

Kernel source: http://smokey01.com/pemasu/Saluki/

I think the nvidia module is there already.

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