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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Why Slackware instead of Ubuntu?
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steve_s


Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1545
Location: Austin, TX, USA

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 09:55    Post_subject:  Why Slackware instead of Ubuntu?
Sub_title: Just curious why the change
 

It seems the 'official' Puppy is Slacko 5.3. I'm wanting to know why the change from Ubuntu to Slackware? This question may have already been asked and answered, so forgive me for not already seeing it.

Oh, and I have no interest one way or the other, just wanting to know why. I used Ubuntu 'back in the day' as one of my first Linux's, but the latest one is way too Window's-ish for me. And I've never tried Slackware.

Just interested to hear if the Puppy peeps know of the reason for the shift...
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 10:13    Post_subject:  

"because it was there"
next is saluk because we needed something to do. or because we couldnt in this point in time do ARM
after that we'll get ARMed but dont count on it.
mostly now i dont care for arm , next year there is supposed to be 1g/s wifi with longer range than N called ac. that should keep us occupied briefly. but its months away.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2578
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 10:38    Post_subject:  

Steve_s, the first linux I've tried was Slackware 13. Installing programs with all the dependencies with pkgtool is easy and very fast. What I didn't like was the 4,5 Gb of HDD space for full install with all optional packages. I love KDE, but puppy with KDE iso is about 400 Mb.
I think puppy based on Slackware is a very good combination.
The one I'm testing now (without KDE) is TXZ Pup from here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=2104123273&t=57484
http://puppylinux.info/topic/txz

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steve_s


Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1545
Location: Austin, TX, USA

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 16:40    Post_subject:  

aarf: yep, I'm sure there's some of that...

saintless: that's a little more of the answer I was wondering...have never installed slackware...

I've got Slacko on here (Toshiba laptop) and I'm playing with it now, just to see what new stuff there is installed...

Didn't know if Ubuntu had committed some mortal sin or something to fall out of favor, figured I should probably check. Wink
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vovchik


Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1285
Location: Ukraine

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 17:31    Post_subject:  

Dear steve_s,

Ubuntu did one very stupid thing - it embraced the Unity interface, which is terrible. That is why Mint Linux came about - an Ubuntu-based distro but with the old Ubuntu standard gnome interface. Puppy has not abandoned debian-based binaries (there is dpup, for instance), but Slackware has been around for years (it is the oldest surviving distro), is meant to reliable (not cutesy) and has a solid base. Puppy 3.01 was based on Slackware, so it is not as if the Puppy crew jumped ship just now. You will see that there are many flavours of Puppy, some of which may appeal to you more than others. Linux is about choice, and so is Puppy with all its incarnations.

With kind regards,
vovchik
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7836
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 18:10    Post_subject:  

Hi steve_s

Barry's woof has come a long way. It now supports building from other distro's binaries including Arch, Debian, Mageia (Mandriva fork, so Mandriva would be easy too), Scientific (Red Hat fork, which would make Red Hat and Fedora possible), Slackware and Ubuntu.

At around the time of Maverick Meerkat and Natty Narwhal, Ubuntu decided to depart from standard packaging paths. Around this time playdayz, puppyluver, pemasu and myself all explored this avenue but it proved too time consuming to fix.

Also, around that time, there was a misconception in the Linux world that Puppy was "based" on Ubuntu. This motivated me to bring Slackware up to scratch in woof. Barry had dabbled in that area with his spup-030 and 040 beta releases circa mid 2010.

In early 2011 I released spup-100 using slackware-13.1 binaries as a puplet. it proved to be somewhat of a hit with many at the time.

On April 27, 2011 Slackware-13.37 was released meaning that i could update spup. Soon after I released a pre-alpha series with all new kernels. In the mean time playdayz was busy keeping Lupu "fresh" and did an outstanding job, even incorporating some Maverick and Natty packages. Lucid Lynx is an LTS release of ubuntu so packages are frequently updated which helps keep lupu fresh and relevant. In saying that, it is toward the end of it's development cycle.

Due to the "Lobbying" of a certain forum member Barry mailed me and asked if I was interested in going "official" with spup. I accepted and the rest is as they say, is history.

Slacko has a bright future. It is in it's infancy now but as we learn refinement will be evolutionary. Woof right now is in a transitional phase bringing with it support for different architectures. The first is ARM but soon I hope will be x86_64. Perhaps that's where Slacko will find it's niche.

I do hope that Ubuntu isn't abandoned. It will be a lot of work however to shoehorn the newer packaging method into the woof mould.

I hope this answers your query.

Cheers. Smile

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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 444
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 18:46    Post_subject:  

'official' Puppy is big list but the 'unofficial' Puppies list is huge too.
Classic Pup 2.14X -- Updated 2 series
Fatdog
TXZ_Pup
Lighthouse and many others i missed.
You don't have to use an 'official' Puppy! Very Happy

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steve_s


Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1545
Location: Austin, TX, USA

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 20:14    Post_subject:  

Ah, so it seems that Ubuntu DID commit a mortal sin. Wink jk

01micko: yes, this answers it perfectly and kudos on Slacko; it's cruzin' along.

harii4: man, you got that right. I love the creativity and variances and encouragement of said variances in the Puppy community. In fact, you'll see my thumbprint in some of the pupflux stuff. Thanks for your feedback!
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec 2011, 23:24    Post_subject:  

Quote:
Woof right now is in a transitional phase bringing with it support for different architectures. The first is ARM but soon I hope will be x86_64. Perhaps that's where Slacko will find it's niche.

Oh yeah! Smile

Puppys are often fiercely independent but are able to play together. Mick and Larry worked on Lucid and Larry (Playdayz) has supported the development of 5.3 which has improvements and some catching up to do.
Mick has done most of the work. We always need more compilers and testers as usual.
As long as Barry works on woof2 we have a future based around the woof2 core. We have to plan long term as development takes longer than the traditional 6 weeks between releases.

The next Puppy is likely to be Puppy compiled in Puppy. Saluki.
That is because it is gathering support. A credible dpup has not yet emerged or a fedora or other type. There are at least 3 dpups, two of which may be able to run on ARM.
PARM is on the back burner
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM
. . . Raspberry Slacko . . . m m m . . . Cool

Puppy 5.3 has excellent multimedia support.
Mick despite a family, dog and job to distract him, has steadily supported Lucid, Spup and now the maturing 5.3 and others efforts.
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy53
I am happy to use Slacko, until I get distracted by a raspberry Pi or some new fangled nibble (m m m . . . Nibble would be a good name for our first Puppy tablet/phone - which is not that far off - maybe 2012 or 2013)

OK beginning to ramble

Puppy 5.3
Slack is the new Taught

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jason.b.c


Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 758
Location: Marshfield,MO

PostPosted: Mon 12 Dec 2011, 04:10    Post_subject:  

vovchik wrote:
Dear steve_s,

Ubuntu did one very stupid thing - it embraced the Unity interface, which is terrible. That is why Mint Linux came about - an Ubuntu-based distro but with the old Ubuntu standard gnome interface.

With kind regards,
vovchik



Is that the only stupid thing???

let's see..

1. removing the ability to access / mount / format / and otherwise "use" floppy disks
2. yes , unity..!!! Rolling Eyes
3. the whole "six month" upgrade schedule.
4. the newest (and supposedly "better") kernels and so forth that basicly screw over previously working programs and functions......... Rolling Eyes
5. grub 2 , need I say more???
6. just the very idea that ubuntu is "supposed to be" user friendly , yet still doesn't work right on a lot of machines ...
7. the hardware requirements are going up up up up and away... Rolling Eyes
8. ubuntu forums are becoming a very un-friendly place .


just my thoughts...

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steve_s


Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 1545
Location: Austin, TX, USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Dec 2011, 11:10    Post_subject:  

jason.b.c wrote:

Is that the only stupid thing???

let's see..

1. removing the ability to access / mount / format / and otherwise "use" floppy disks
2. yes , unity..!!! Rolling Eyes
3. the whole "six month" upgrade schedule.
4. the newest (and supposedly "better") kernels and so forth that basicly screw over previously working programs and functions......... Rolling Eyes
5. grub 2 , need I say more???
6. just the very idea that ubuntu is "supposed to be" user friendly , yet still doesn't work right on a lot of machines ...
7. the hardware requirements are going up up up up and away... Rolling Eyes
8. ubuntu forums are becoming a very un-friendly place .


just my thoughts...


I noticed #8, one of the main reasons I first came to Puppy, and I noticed in the most recent one I just wanted to open a terminal and had to hunt around about how to do that...it took forever to download/install, just way more hassle than I was interested in.

but I didn't know if any of those reason where behind the switch to slackware...looks like now they may have influenced it...
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jason.b.c


Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 758
Location: Marshfield,MO

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec 2011, 05:31    Post_subject:  

steve_s wrote:
jason.b.c wrote:

Is that the only stupid thing???

let's see..

1. removing the ability to access / mount / format / and otherwise "use" floppy disks
2. yes , unity..!!! Rolling Eyes
3. the whole "six month" upgrade schedule.
4. the newest (and supposedly "better") kernels and so forth that basicly screw over previously working programs and functions......... Rolling Eyes
5. grub 2 , need I say more???
6. just the very idea that ubuntu is "supposed to be" user friendly , yet still doesn't work right on a lot of machines ...
7. the hardware requirements are going up up up up and away... Rolling Eyes
8. ubuntu forums are becoming a very un-friendly place .


just my thoughts...


I noticed #8, one of the main reasons I first came to Puppy, and I noticed in the most recent one I just wanted to open a terminal and had to hunt around about how to do that...it took forever to download/install, just way more hassle than I was interested in.

but I didn't know if any of those reason where behind the switch to slackware...looks like now they may have influenced i
t...



indeed..

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec 2011, 07:13    Post_subject:  

I trust them are unfriendly to discourag me to plug for
frugal iso install of ubuntu. It goes against their puritan views
on how a real install is supposed to be done.

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10827
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec 2011, 08:35    Post_subject:  

I've always like Slackware better than Ubuntu, Slackware tends to use less libs. Like puppy 3 compared with puppy 5, check the backends out, Its not just the kernel which was larger, the backend as a whole was increased in number of libs.
But 2.14X & Debian puppy versions have always ran the fastest on my pc's, Smile
ttuuxxx

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JegasLLC

Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 19 Dec 2011, 14:51    Post_subject: I was getting into Ubuntu.... but ...
Sub_title: It wasn't getting easier version to version - more glam, less wham
 

Slackware was my first Linux Distro.. Like version 1.. all console, etc.

So I always liked slackware - but it sorta strayed away from unix standards enough where I was a little turned off.. CentOS never disappoints me for server/work but then Ubuntu... great.. but I checked it out and after a couple exposures I started to think it was decent.. and then I started to like it.. then they sorta pushed down KDE... and then this unity thing... its turning into a presentation - not an efficiency tool.

I find the more or less naked approach Puppy has, lean, mean, to the point - and nice User Friendly features where us heavy lifters KNOW its saving us a lot of work...

Moving to slackware from ubuntu - I'm definitely down... but I think having the ubuntu repos for available software, if in fact they will be going away, will be a loss. Mind you, I say this having not seen how the Slackware repo's look today... We might not be losing at all.. perhaps gaining. I just figured with Ubuntu being so popular that would be the case. Maybe its not even popular.. just an impression I got...

As for their forums being kinda cold lately - that turns me off also on a side note. I don't mind debating and heckling a little but when folks start getting plain rude and nasty... I feel like that puppy mascot - don't care about their size - LET ME AT EM! Evil or Very Mad ...um... PEACE! hehe Cool
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