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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Sage Live - 511 -53
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Tue 29 Nov 2011, 04:51    Post subject:  

Hi hayden,

thanks for feedback - I am glad you find it useful and I share your opinion about the "loosing steam" problem of many projects. Every project has its specific strengths and weaknesses - I summed up why I think Sage is promising and worth the time invested:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=63810

About micro emacs:
yep this is a bug with mg: it can be fixed with change the file
/usr/share/applications/mg-p.desktop, exec mg should be
Code:
exec xterm -e mg

After that you have to use Menu>Refresh desktop (fixmenus).
I try to fix this in the next release (maybe Februar)

I included the small micro emacs, because it has the basic emacs feeling without the size. And I put an "emacs" symlink in /usr/bin to mg for those firsttimers who get lost at the commandline and need an emacs like editor.

which emacs?

Which emacs package did you use? I just tried the package which I offer on the SageliveCD homepage for download.
http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/emil/doc/html/en/ADD_SOFTWARE_emacs.html
it worked flawless, including menu entry and the symlink to mg was overwritten. I currently work in my small server version of Sage Live, but it should be the same for 511-47.

terminal infernal
You are probably right that an advanced terminal would be better. However for just changing colors there is the option to call urxvt with the -bg and fg parameters (e.g. right click on Console icon on desktop, edit item, Arguments to pass -bg black -fg white.), Maybe a good solution would be to offer an additional terminal as extra package for download - what do you think?

Open Sci distros
I had a look on Quantian and Poseidon Linux.
Both are valuable projects, although the last Quantian release is from 2006.

I think specific advantages of puppy is that it is small and easy to install on a wide variety of platforms. In combination with Sage it offers a comprehensive system with a unified interface AND: it may act as a server, so the whole power is accessible over the net to others.

Let me stress that I am very happy about any contributions and feedback. In fact I feel that documentation and published applications are more important than compiling over and over.
If you have any documentation or examples just post them Very Happy . It is also possible to publish Sage notebooks on one of the public servers, so we could just insert links here. e.g. Published Worksheets on main Sage Server of University of Washington
Some Examples from Sage dev Jason Grout from Drake Univ.
A German Sage server

cheers Cool
emil
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hayden


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 63
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Tue 29 Nov 2011, 09:12    Post subject: Emacs in Sage Live etc.  

Hi Emil, thanks for your detailed response. I agree that Emacs should not be the default text editor due to its size and the fact that many people do not belong to The Church of Emacs. I do not remember now where I downloaded Emacs from but Sage Live and all the other things I installed were either downloaded at the same time or installed from within Sage Live. I will try the link you provided.

By way of documentation, here

http://courses.statistics.com/software/R/Rhome.htm

is some very detailed documentation of R for beginners. This was created for my online courses at statistics.com. They provided some financial support and host it in return for making it available to anyone. I don't know of any other documentation that is not for statisticians or programmers.
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hayden


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 63
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Tue 29 Nov 2011, 09:17    Post subject: Emacs in Sage Live  

Ah, it's coming back to me. The link you provided above for Emacs actually gets me gnuplot. That must be why I looked elsewhere. Your link cliams to offer version 23.2 and I found 23.3 elsewhere. Do you have a working link to 23.2?
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Tue 29 Nov 2011, 13:37    Post subject:  

Well, my Homepage is buggy - here is the right link
http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/emil/stuff/emacs-23.2-i486.pet
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hayden


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 63
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Wed 30 Nov 2011, 20:12    Post subject: Save Life testing  

Thanks. That Emacs seems to work.

LyX runs but complains that it can't produce output because the article style is missing. Sounds like a broken link somewhere? (What comes up when I run LyX varies -- this error message appears when it opens its Welcome apge. Other times it opens nothing and I just see the logo. The Export list is VERY short -- just plain text and other versions of LyX. HTML and PDF would be basic.

I got yacas from your site and it runs at the CLI but the installer says there is a menu item in Business??? The Puppy installer is not too reliable at adding items to menus though it's better than it used to be.

I installed Dia and full Inkscape without trouble.
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 05:01    Post subject:  

Oki Doki - I fixed the link in my homepage, glad emacs works as expected.

I checked the Latex_Lyx_v09.sfs from the download page. I get a longer list for export (including DVI, HTML, Latex, Postscript, Open Document, Plain Text ... ). Also if I press the "show pdf" button the document is rendered correctly. I wonder why it shouldn't work at your place ...
md5sum is d2b610d39fed89c26db6685d598f5ece Latex_Lyx_v09.sfs
please check if this is correct!
It is true that it uses a somewhat stripped version of Latex (I think it has only Latin charactersets, no arabics or chineses).

I haven't tested Yacas in Puppy 511 - originally I made it in 431. I put it in Business because the Calculators are there in stock puppy.
If you want to have correct menu entries, please change the file /usr/share/applications/yacas.desktop

Code:
Categories=Calculator;Science


(run refresh Desktop afterwards)

I have updated the yacas package on the server to fix this and I also put it on the homepage. Please report if you run in any further problems.

cheers Cool
emil
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 06:05    Post subject: missing layout in Lyx  

I must admit I don't use Lyx, but I see now what you ment in your post. Some of the layouts which are offered in the "New from Template" are missing. Some of the Templates work though.

I have no easy fix for that, I think it might depends on the cutdown latex package. Im sorry but I am unable to improve the package atm due the my schedule.

This should be a helpful Wiki page http://wiki.lyx.org/Layouts/Layouts.
for adding new layouts.
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hayden


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 63
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Fri 02 Dec 2011, 19:02    Post subject: LyX and TeX in Sage Live  

OK, I don't have any solutions but I have spent some time trying to isolate the problem. The problem I was having was not with LyX layouts but with LaTeX document classes. In particular, if I tried to open the LyX welcome document it complained that the file defining the article class was missing. To see what else is missing one can ask LyX to create a new document, then look in Document > Settings. First choice on the left is Document Class and you can click to open a list of all possible classes. The list is two screens long and everything except DocBook is unavailable on my setup. While it might be OK to have 12 instead of 120, 1 is definitely too few styles. Sad

So to see if the files are present I did a search for article.cls, the file that defines the missing article class. It's present, so apparently the problem is that LyX can't find it. Many attempts to address that failed but I did discover that TeX is very oddly installed. For example, the configuration files are split between /usr and the more usual /usr/share. Typing
Code:
which latex
leads to another location but that is just a link to yet another location. In LyX, Document > Preferences lets you specify a path prefix that points to where all the files it needs may be found but it seems to assume they are all in one place.

The scattered TeX files made me wonder if the error message is from TeX rather than LyX. So I tried
Code:
# texhash
texhash: Done.
to reconfigure TeX. This runs, but it should produce a list of what it configued so apparently it configured nothing. No next I tried to actually process a TeX file
Code:
# tex Stats4.tex
This is TeX, Version 3.1415926 (TeXLive2009_/_PuppyLinux)

kpathsea: Running mktexfmt tex.fmt
/usr/bin/mktexfmt: line 362: //texmf/texconfig/tcfmgr: No such file or directory
fmtutil: config file `fmtutil.cnf' not found.
I can't find the format file `tex.fmt'!
so apparently TeX can't find it's files either. So my tentative conclusion is that the problem is with TeX rather than LyX.

Has anyone managed to compile a TeX file in Sage Live?
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat 03 Dec 2011, 04:57    Post subject:  

Hayden,
you are probably right that in the case of Latex/Lyx the glass is rather half empty then half full. It also reminds me that writing some letters maybe doesn't qualify as a full test of a word processor.

I try to make a full texlife sfs package as a first step. I would be glad if you could test it when finished, maybe with emacs latex mode.
There is also a new Lyx version (they jumped to 2.0 recently), so that might be the next project.

thanks for bringing it up
emil
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat 03 Dec 2011, 08:19    Post subject:  

Bad news: texlive is huge (full package download from their homepage is 2.3 GB )

BUT Good news:
Have a full texlive 2011 package AND the new LyX 2.0.1 running. Seems pretty well.
Lyx is surprising small, just 14 MB, but it needs QT another 19 MB.
Full texlive Package is 1.5 GB as sfs. If I remove Docs and sources then I can probably get it under a Gig.

working on it now, uploading will need time, so I think it'll be ready tomorrow.
Thinking about it again it's no wonder that there were problems with the Tex package - it was reduced to ~ 150 MB, 10 % of the full package.
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hayden


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 63
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Sat 03 Dec 2011, 10:35    Post subject: the size of TeX  

I just looked at my manual for the ancient PC TeX 3.1 and it required 8.5 Mb of disk space . I have installed LyX for Windows many times -- usually unsuccessfully. It's huge and I think the pholosophy is to include everything anyone might ever need. As I recall, one install option was a smaller package set up to download missing pieces as needed. I don't know enough about the internals to advise on what to cut except that the styles, classes and templates could probably be made much shorter. As a first approximation, keep the short names and drop the long or journal-specific ones. So article.cls is needed but maybe not article-XYZ.cls or PQR-article.cls. Someone who needs them could probably find them online.

The base TeXlive package for Mepis is 18Mb and the binaries half that so it sounds like you are getting everything but the kitchen sink in your download. How big is the file in the Lucid repositories? If it does require an sfs twice as big as Sage Live then maybe it should not be a part of Sage Live.
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat 03 Dec 2011, 11:55    Post subject: Re: the size of TeX  

hayden wrote:
I just looked at my manual for the ancient PC TeX 3.1 and it required 8.5 Mb of disk space . I have installed LyX for Windows many times


You probably mean Tex here Very Happy .

Anyway, yes they recommend to do the full install. However installing some subsets is popular - I just checked the Ubuntu Texlive package was 130 MB. Thats approximatly the size of the popular "MiKTex" package in windows.

There is a package manager, but I didn't find how to use it yet Question
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hayden


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 63
Location: New Hampshire USA

PostPosted: Sat 03 Dec 2011, 13:09    Post subject: LyX and TeX  

Actually in Windows I install LyX and IT installs MiKTeX. I do it that way because then they are installed in compatible fashion and can find one another.

Not sure which package manager you refer to. I thought Sage Live was built on Lucid Puppy and that Lucid Puppy could install Ubuntu Lucid packages? I think the default Puppy Lucid package manager has an option to look at some Ubuntu repositories but they seem small compared to all that is available for Ubuntu. I was going to say I've never installed an Ubuntu package in Puppy but maybe I have. I don't recall anything in the install procedure saying which repository a package came from.
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sun 04 Dec 2011, 16:11    Post subject: texlive 2011  

I know understand the TeX distribution a bit better. There is an installer which can be used to download only needed packages. But if a decent subset is installed it will still be several 100 of MB, so for puppy it is better to install this as an sfs file.

I have prepackaged the following (from small to large, small packages are subsets of the larger ones):

texlive-2011-MIN.sfs (18 MB) just bare minimum
texlive-2011-MEDIUM.sfs (177 MB) has LaTeX and recommended packages
texlive-2011-TETEX.sfs (334 MB) famous TeTeX distribution
texlive-2011-FULLAPP.sfs (551 MB) full Texlive sans docs and source
texlive-2011-FULL.sfs (1489 MB) full TexLive Package

texlive-2011-DOC-SRC.sfs (939 MB) Docs and Sourcecode

Those were made in Sage Live, but I *think* it should work in most puppies. Sure these are huge files, but they are a lot smaller than a download of the full distribution (2.4 GB on DVD iso).

Download texlive prepackaged

There is an installer which can be used to download a custom package. It is fine for full install puppies, but for frugal installs it is not straightforward how to avoid full savefiles/disks and to build a custom sfs package (it's not too difficult either).
install-tl-unx.tar.gz

To build an automated custom texlive sfs creator would be a nice little project I post a version of the new LyX soon.
kind regards
Emil
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 618
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon 05 Dec 2011, 07:31    Post subject: LyX-2.0.1  

Dependencies:
qt4-4.8.0
aspell-0.60.6.1
Lyx-2.0.2

Take care Cool
emil
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