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jim3630


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 792
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 09:51    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Sorry that I ask such stupid question.

if Puppy is already 100% compatible with Debian then why would
I or anybody even look at LMDE or Bodhi or Peppermint or Semplice
or Pussy or Crunchbang or anything else than Puppy?

Is even IguLeder's GuyDog compatible with Debian repo?
I know too little and fail to search for such info too.


one reason is LMDE downloads the program and all of it's dependencies.

have downloaded some, at least one, programs in LMDE that did not work and plan to call it up in the console later and try figure out why didn't work first time.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 11:19    Post subject:  

Thanks Jim. I can add Illume OS to the Debian that refuse to
allow saving to the drive it booted from if one boot up as live
user frugal install on NTFS.

It did not help I was root either. The whole drive is set up as Read only
and there is no way to set it as rw.

Another short report. Lubuntu worked as good as Peppermint and
as Bodhi does but lacked the codecs for some formats.

But I guess that is to be expected them being FOSS?

Among the small lightweight liteweight? distros I guess Porteus
is most like Puppy in that Porteus can save in a save file

but I don't remember now if one can log in as root. Maybe one do?
I have such a poor memory. Anyway it do allow one to edit files like
menu.lst on the drive one boot from.

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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1309
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 11:53    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Sorry that I ask such stupid question.

if Puppy is already 100% compatible with Debian then why would
I or anybody even look at LMDE or Bodhi or Peppermint or Semplice
or Pussy or Crunchbang or anything else than Puppy?

Is even IguLeder's GuyDog compatible with Debian repo?
I know too little and fail to search for such info too.


Different strokes for different folks nooby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98PdrZqd4Ko
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 16:52    Post subject:  

Linux is a touchy feely subject Smile
Wow I know I have had Netrunner before
but fail to remember why I did not keep it.

It is actually very good. only used some 250MB
of my 1GB while my current Snow Puppy is so
overloaded that it take ssome 900mb.

Netrunner seems to have everything and
it just works using the way I learned from d4p
which I brutally shaved down to a minimum.

His version as I get it is really for USB while
my lean version works very well on my machine.
Code:
     
 title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
 find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
 kernel   /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw  file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
 initrd   /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz


as usual one place the iso on / and create a dir on / named as the distro
and in that dir one extract and copy the casper directory and the preseed dir maybe I don't trust one need the isolinux though but it could be good to ahve if one get curious on their code for usb and CD.

it all boots and work like a charm. One of the better apart from being KDE which is a bit too bloated for my 1GB small computer.
the Fan whine due to cpu workign hard.
http://www.netrunner-os.com/

I trust that Netrunner will be among my most faved for frugal iso install
outside of Puppy distros that is.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 29 Oct 2011, 07:18    Post subject:  

D4P you should have given me the link! No criticism just facts Smile

Here is the proper link.
Install Ubuntu directly from hard disk
Author An article by Bharat Balegere

http://agnipulse.com/2011/08/install-ubuntu-hard-disk/

he writes

Quote:
In this article I will be showing how you can install Ubuntu(and its derivatives) directly from hard disk.
Advantages of installing Ubuntu directly from Hard Disk

1. Secondary media like CD,DVD or USB Flash Drive are not required
2. Installation is faster
3. No need to change boot order.You have to boot normally from your hard disk

Install Ubuntu from iso using Grub4Dos

1. Install Grub4dos to your Hard Disk.Grub4Dos is powerful bootloader which supports iso emulation
2. Download Ubuntu to the root of any drive.
3. Add the following entry to menu.lst


Comment he gives the same code as you did D4P. I guess you got it
from him or somebody quoting him???

Code:
title Install Ubuntu
find --set-root /ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso
map /ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso (0xff)  || map --mem /ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso (0xff)
map --hook
root (0xff)
kernel /casper/vmlinuz  file=/cdrom/preseed/ubuntu.seed noprompt boot=casper only-ubiquity iso-scan/filename=/ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.lz


Then he tell how one unmount the hdd for to install the Ubuntu to it.
Which I am not going to do due to that start to resize and partition it.

I want my hdd to be as it is when I bought the machine.

You can read about it on the link.

What I experienced was that it did not work on my machine so I made
a cheat version of the one that Bharat Balegere gave us.

Netrunner which is a Kubuntu variety looks then like this

Code:
 title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
 find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
 kernel   /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw  file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
 initrd   /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz


this part differ. only-ubiquity which maybe is needed at some times.
I know too little to give advice on ubiquity what is that thing Smile

I've kept the noeject ? anyway it is good that we have a proper link now
to the guy that came up with it?

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Last edited by nooby on Sat 29 Oct 2011, 12:33; edited 1 time in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 29 Oct 2011, 07:20    Post subject:  

sudo umount -l /isodevice

suggested by Bharat Balegere above.
Would that allow me to use the casper-rw file for saving changes?
I mean if one do sudo umount -l /isodevice before shutting down
would that make casper-rw see a way to save changes.

or is it that it resides on a NTFS drive that makes saving to it fail?

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d4p


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 406

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 14:59    Post subject:  

Sorry I dont know about that link at all.
If you really want to learn at least read the guide
http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/files/map.htm

If you need advise maybe ask the guy who successful create multiboot with multiple partitions on many internal HDD
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=22957&sid=8cc75ff3f71e7d561c4998a57174d363

We are not on the same direction:
I have no problem to figure out multiboot with internal HDD.
I have used grub4dos for multiboot manager for a while I think since 2007 or maybe before. My concentration is always multiboot and portable; cd/dvd/UFD is just too small so that I choose external HDD for many purposes and for many good reasons.
At least I have now 150 multibootable images on a single USB external HDD.
It tested & worked on many computers.
Just added in my multiboot:
Mandriva2011
Neptune2
Asturix3
USU7
Semplice2b

Dreamlinux & opensuse & ghostBSD work fine in single boot, not yet in multiboot.



""Comment he gives the same code as you did D4P. I guess you got it
from him or somebody quoting him???
Code:
title Install Ubuntu
find --set-root /ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso
map /ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso (0xff) || map --mem /ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso (0xff)
map --hook
root (0xff)
kernel /casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/ubuntu.seed noprompt boot=casper only-ubiquity iso-scan/filename=/ubuntu-11.04-desktop-i386.iso quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.lz

Then he tell how one unmount the hdd for to install the Ubuntu to it.
Which I am not going to do due to that start to resize and partition it.""


I always will avoid of using mem, particular for big distros. Remember mine is all portable.
On small images is ok to use mem and on some I use memdisk or not at all.

I mentioned already somewhere in this thread or at least in this forum.
For good reasons I am not interested persistent ala Ubuntu, except ctbankix.
I need only small simple created module(s) or some kind of small file(s).

Sorry about my limited English. Try it out and you know it is not easy.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 15:55    Post subject:  

Thanks that link goes to a thread
Quote:
boot 145 operating systems in a PC

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=22957

So typical that not a single person responded?
Where I active at that time. I feel now that I would
have loved it. But you give very little info and example
in that thread. We seems to be close in some ways
and very afar in other ways.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 31 Oct 2011, 16:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
Step 1 – A simple hardware scheme

An operating system needs to reside in a home. That is a partition to me. I used 2x300Gb Pata disk and 2x200 Sata Disk to set up 152 partitions. I always put one operating system in one partition. As an extended partition of each hard disk has no storage of its own, one data-only partition is needed for my personal data, another data-only partition to house the common boot loader and one Swap partition is needed for all the Linux I ended up losing 7 partitions leaving 145 partitions to house the 145 operating systems.

Step 2 – A simple boot scheme

I put Grub in a data-only partition, created a boot menu to boot all the partitions before any of the operating systems was installed. When a partition is filled the system inside becomes bootable instantly. This scheme is dead simple, technically sound, perfectly applicable is every situation but can be viewed unconventional to some PC users. For those who know nothing about Grub it is just one of the two boot loaders commonly used in Linux. The other one is called Lilo possibly used by less than 40% of the Linux distros at the begining of 2007.

In a nutshell I use this Grub to boot up the boot loader of any of the 145 systems that I choose to use. Afterward it is the duty of the second boot loader that brings up its master.

Step 3 – A simple installation scheme

It is really simple. I just installed each system inside a single partition. For MS systems there is more work as I had to install each as a stand alone system so that it always boot to a “C” drive. I then moved the disks with the MS systems to the final position and edit Grub's menu file to boot it back to a “C” drive status.

My scheme depends every system having a boot loader inside its root partition. This is inherent in every MS systems and other operating systems that rely on booting from a bootable primary partition. For Linux it is an optional choice.



Does that not explain why some linux did boot on your system while them did not boot with same code at my standard? Acer D250 due to it is set up by the OEM to be like them think a computer should be.

You did set it all up as you wanted it. and that is why it works?

I trust that explains why you could succeed where I totally failed.
Your system is different from mine Very different.


No criticism. I do admire that you have cared about accomplish all that.
You are the Master and I am the true noob.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 04:20    Post subject:  

Do remember that my following comment is no criticism.
I just tell how booting may look from a very common set up
of a newly bought computer and from a totally different approach.
A different set up and way of relating to computers.
Quote:

Step 1 – A simple hardware scheme
An operating system needs to reside in a home.


Seen from another perspective that is a given.
Seen from my perspective one buy the cheapest computer
because that is the one one can afford to use.

That one already have Ms WinXP or Win7 on it.
So Linux users ask me why don't you wipe that
OS from the hdd and do a Linux partition instead.

Because one need that OS to do changes and updates
to the many smartphones one have. A must to keep them.

Sure you can buy a used computer to have Linux on
and them maybe even cheaper than the new one
but then one have to know much about computers and
linux to do such a elaborate set up. Is it not for the newbie?

So now I talk about somebody buying over the shelf at the Mall!

So which hardware was cheapest where I live? Netbook for 1995SEK
That is about 300USD so I got me a Acer D250 with Atom N270 and
1GB memory and the HD will be from say 160GB to 250 GB
depending on if it is WinXP or a Win7 version.

Okay then we have the warranty. two years where you are not allowed
to do any kind of changing of the partitions. So it is a very different
situation than the one you descibe in the link and post that I quoted.

So I need to find ways to Dualboot that retain the original untouched.
so that means I keep the original and don't do any kind of partioning.

Quote:
Step 2 – A simple boot scheme


That needs to be done in a way that can restore the original boot.
I first used Ubuntu with wubi because them promised that it could be
uninstalled from within Win7 without changing the boot in any way.

Using that wubi menu.lst I could add Puppy to it.

Later I added grub4dos but maybe that one did destroy the MBR
of the original. I will only know that if I try a recovery.
The Acer D250 has three partitions from factory.
1. is the one Acer own. 2. is the Win recovery 3. is the real partition
for the user and there everything is. Win7 and puppy and ubuntu
and so on.


Quote:
Step 3 – A simple installation scheme
It is really simple. I just installed each system inside a single partition.


Yes that is how I do it too kind of. I only use the NTFS third partition that
is set up to be for the user of the computer.

So how can one explain that your code works on your computer and mine works on mine but yours totally fail on mine.

My explanation is that we have different set up.

Your set up is very unique. At least to me as a noob reading about it.

My set up is the original for that Netbook and 100 000 or more have same computer the world over. So my suggested code can help all
those who don't want to do resize and partitioning. Them just want to
test a distro and don't have CD or USB at the moment so my way of doing it will allow that while your way is rather unique as I get it.

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 13:03    Post subject:  

Quote:
What I experienced was that it did not work on my machine so I made
a cheat version of the one that Bharat Balegere gave us.


nooby/notsonooby

Could you make a new thread explaining your cheat version?
If possible can you highlight the differences between his version and yours, and what you've learnt/understood to work and why

I have to admit, I've read what seem to be all threads relating to this topic....and yet you have grasped and appear to understand what you needed to do to get it to work on your PC, [I understand about OEM partitions as used by ACER/Compaq et al] ...whereas I fail miserably and get lost....I have used playdayz win32exe installer successfully, but that chainloads via winini, I believe.....but I don't know how to add/change puppy versions

A friend who is having difficulty with computers in general, but windoze in particular, has tried liveCD puppy and likes it, but I have no idea how to help him get multiple choices to boot, as he keeps changing his mind about features he wants/needs in different puppies....multiboot seems ideal for him to try....if I can understand how to/he can understand how to do it
[he's a bit computer illiterate, so I will probably have to try to show him...so 1st need to understand myself...]

thanks

Aitch Smile
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 14:25    Post subject:  

D4P knows incredibly more than I do and all my knowledge
is more by accident then due to me getting what I do at all.

He gave me the code and it failed to work and I felt so disappointed
but I did not want to give up on it so I started to delete part of the
code to see what error message that happen as a result.

And suddenly it booted and I barely remembered what I had edited
"live" on the line. One do "e" and that allow one to edit "live" while
the boot fails or works.

Later I thought I found wher ehe got his code. But it could be the
other guy that found it at D4P instead. So he maybe was first.

I have not asked him again about it. I guess he felt bad about me
not trusting him to be the originator of it.

We are all individuals and have very different approach to things.

Anyway. The booting here on the Netbook was accomplished first
using Ubuntu but in Jolicloud's version their Wubi install.
But later Shinobar helped me to get Grub4dosconfig going.

like this.


title debug loglevel=7 initcall_debug time apic=debug


# Windows

title Windows Vista/2008/7\nBoot up Windows Vista/2008/7 if installed
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /bootmgr


# additionals

title Find Grub2\nBoot up grub2 if installed
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/core.img
kernel /boot/grub/core.img

title Grub4Dos commandline\n(for experts only)
commandline

title Reboot computer
reboot

title Halt computer
halt

But I still feel unsure of if his version of grub4dosconfig is able
to make a functional backup of the MBR so I don't dare to recommend it.

I trust one should ask him in every individual case.

Just now I know too little but I have found a very interesting comment.

I will publish it in the security section too so it have it's own thread.

The reason the cheat code works can be a mistake in Xorg that them will correct in next update.

I have asked why the Ubuntu people have changed policy and none got what I talked about. Here maybe is the reason. Them did not know. Or
maybe I don't get what them talk about at all.
read here.

http://www.pacman.linuxd.org/
Quote:


These days were discovered two big securitty issues in X.org
witch is common almost in all distributions witch are focused on
desktop usage.

User can set up permissions of any file or directory to "all read"
attributes, witch is a real issue
.

So all users should upgrade to latest packages (our rc.updater will handle this it is not disabled.

But this is also wery important step in any other distribution,
so if you are affected you should upgrade at least xorg server and libXfont.
Author: tomo , one comment
2011-10-23


I have no idea if that explains why I can save things on the HDD.

I mean I have tried that since 2007 and every Ubuntu guru has told me
that them have set Ubuntu up to not allow such bad behavior.

Then suddenly without explanation the Ubuntu 11.10 accepted to save
to the NTFS hdd. A total No no just a few months ago.

So I trust them have don't a big mistake and either don't know about it
or them too embarrassed to admit it? Why else such a big change of policy? Not like Linux people at all to accept such bad behavior.

I mean them are super angry on us for being root.

Here I could save in Slitaz and not even being root or doing su or anything just by using the the ordinary boot like this


title SliTaz 3.0 frugal username=root psw=root
rootnoverify (hd0,2)
kernel /slitaz3boot/bzImage slitaz screen=1024x768x24
initrd /slitaz3boot/rootfs.gz

I simply know too little.
The only reason I can boot at all is that I search and search and test
and suddenly it works or I search for three years and it never work.
It is totally unpredictable. No system or knowledge I just fool around
until it works Smile For the fun of being able to

Here is link to D4P description of his system but that one need one set up the computer with partitions in the way he has tested out so it is not easy to use for us who don't want to change the computer.
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=147959

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jim3630


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 792
Location: Northern Nevada

PostPosted: Tue 01 Nov 2011, 19:32    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Thanks Jim. I can add Illume OS to the Debian that refuse to
allow saving to the drive it booted from if one boot up as live
user frugal install on NTFS.

It did not help I was root either. The whole drive is set up as Read only
and there is no way to set it as rw.



nooby, sorry that's quite over my head. but reading along as you have an interesting topic here. thanks
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 02 Nov 2011, 05:34    Post subject:  

Yes it is way over my head too.

No criticism to D4P without you I have had no idea one could
use Ubuntu and very many of it's derivates this easily.

And I am angry on myself not angry or disappointed with you.
You have made a tremendous contribution describing how one
can boot 145 distros the way you set it all up at your place.

I trust that if I do exactly as you suggest then it works for me too.

But I am a different person than you. As jim3630 indicate.

Him is not sure of if he gets what I write. I hope he takes a look
at the link I gave to your text.

I wish many would look here
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=147959

And that many of you try things out and retell what happens when you
do it on your computer without rebuilding anything. Just adding the code
to the menu.lst and adding the files and iso from the Ubuntu
and when I edited what I thought was for USB and not for NTFS
then it booted for me on many but not all Ubuntu.

So we would need many experiences to learn from.
My machine is a Acer Netbook D250 with an Atom CPU so that
could be why it fails for me.
But the code I gave do work for me.


title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
kernel /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz

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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1511

PostPosted: Thu 03 Nov 2011, 13:57    Post subject:  

I'm posting from the new Archbang release, 2011.11, which I downloaded yesterday. It's fast and works really well, but I still find the default themes much too dark. I also can't find any office apps such as Gnumeric and Abiword. Otherwise, it would definitely be a contender for my favourite live distro apart from Puppy.

At the very least, it's an easy route into Arch.

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