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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct 2011, 07:52    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
Check this site for wallpapers, sickgut:
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/cat/cats/

My favorites are:

http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/266547/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/82119/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/35784/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/316020/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/38493/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/343472/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/38715/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/436992/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/525247/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/769884/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/85487/


Thanks for posting saintless

This one without the hearts:
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/266547/

or these ones:
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/35784/
http://animals.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/525247/

I like to have black background as it offers the easiest to view contrast, and the first one could be edited so the cat is on the bottom right hand corner and the carpet underneath the cat could be edited out. This cat as a small logo on the bottom right hand corner with the Pussy linux version information under it is what im thinking. I think its best to keep the background artwork away from the icons that are at the top left hand corner, and something in the middle could clash with the icons, this is why i prefer to have the artwork on the bottom right hand corner.

The seccond one altho goes against what i just said might work.....

The 3rd one is perfect just how it is.

what does everyone else think?

i think something needs to be done about the background, in its present state its so bad quality that we are probably better off just having it black.

While we are on the subject of artwork, what is your opinions of the boot splash screen that is used in the live cdrom iso? i think is in /isolinux/splash.png . This was custom ordered for pussy, it started life as a modified debian live boot screen but was changed to make it more cartoonish and the cat outline has the different coloured eye the same as the puppy logo, i wanted to have a splash screen that incorporated parto of debian live, puppy and ofcause a pussy. I personally think this is fantastic and i love how the whiskers encircle the boot menu options.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2373
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct 2011, 08:08    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
While we are on the subject of artwork, what is your opinions of the boot splash screen that is used in the live cdrom iso?

I like it. I think you should not change it.
The third cat wallpaper is fine for me too.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 26 Oct 2011, 09:52    Post subject:  

SickGut here is a wild suggestion.
As you know I am a complete Noob and Challenged
using computers and logic but what if it works?

TinyCore did not allow us to use NTFS formatted either.
Then suddenly RobertS change mind or something.
So here is how them did it for a while. I try to show
Now this is many month old so them do it other ways now I guess.


title TinyCore 4.0 /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz fluff kmap=qwerty/fi-latin9
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /tce/boot/vmlinuz
kernel /tce/boot/vmlinuz tce=sda3 showapps noswap syslog vga=792 kmap=qwerty/fi-latin9
initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz


title TinyCore 3.7rc2 bzImage kmap=qwerty/fi-latin9
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /tce/boot/bzImage
kernel /tce/boot/bzImage tce=sda3 home=sda3 opt=sda3 showapps noswap syslog vga=792 kmap=qwerty/fi-latin9
initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz


You see this part? initrd /tce/boot/tinycore.gz /tce/boot/ntfs-3g.gz

So them have added a gx file named ntfs-3ggz and it get placed
in boot dir and automatically get added at boot that way.

So why can one not decide what to add of the Squash files
that way too? That is not as usual! It is a way to add a file
at boot. What if Pussy maybe also can do it?

I sifted that file out of the package and place it there
tce-dir-boot-dir-ntfs-3g gz.jpg
 Description   tce dir bootdir ntfs-3g.gz file
 Filesize   17.38 KB
 Viewed   776 Time(s)

tce-dir-boot-dir-ntfs-3g gz.jpg


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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2011, 04:56    Post subject:  

Sickgut this is no criticising nor any demand nor any Come on now!

Here is something else to learn from, how others do things???

http://semplice-linux.sourceforge.net/develop/doc/pylaivng/
Quote:
pylaivng is a set of tools to help the development of Debian-based distributions.

It is currently the official build system of Semplice Linux.


So most likely one can make any kind of Debian using it?
I guess it needs Python language compiler? but I am just guessing.

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2011, 06:06    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Sickgut this is no criticising nor any demand nor any Come on now!

Here is something else to learn from, how others do things???

http://semplice-linux.sourceforge.net/develop/doc/pylaivng/
Quote:
pylaivng is a set of tools to help the development of Debian-based distributions.

It is currently the official build system of Semplice Linux.


So most likely one can make any kind of Debian using it?
I guess it needs Python language compiler? but I am just guessing.


im only going to stick with the least modified debian=live and never break compatibility with it, i will slim the whole thing down by removing files that dont need to be there (pussy would be 1.7gb in size, not 244mb if i didnt slim it down) however this doesnt break compatibility with anything. Soon as i start doing non standard stuff is when we loose support from the debian-live community. However there is way way way more potential and way more options that are standard with debian live that i have not learned about yet, when i do learn this, we will find pussy can do anything we want.

pussy will always live in the realms of what is possible with a standard debian live system, as soon as we break this... we have created something completely new and it is up to us to completely support it, and im sorry to say im not willing to do that as i dont completely understand the normal debian live yet and creating something else is out of the question as i will not be able to support it and not be able to provide our users with the support they need. If we keep it standard, our users can still get support from debian and debian live communities, and these communities can offer more knowledgeable support than i can.

i wont ever take the plunge to create something other than a standard debian live system until i have learned 100% there is to know about this one, then if we do change i will know what the changes will mean and what they do and be able to support it..

also i will never do anything that would break compatibility with the debian repos in any way.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2011, 06:09    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
sickgut wrote:
While we are on the subject of artwork, what is your opinions of the boot splash screen that is used in the live cdrom iso?

I like it. I think you should not change it.
The third cat wallpaper is fine for me too.


cool, glad you like the boot screen. I am currently in the stages of designing the new pussyxtra.squashfs that contains the extra apps, i think i will use the cats eye wall paper in it and see what everyone thinks about it.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 27 Oct 2011, 09:36    Post subject:  

Seems to be a wise policy for your version.
so will be interesting.

may I ask. which other debian i there out there?
Is crunchbang maybe pure debian? Do them tell such on DW?
Maybe Mephis? AntiX maybe is too changed to be seen as pure?
Seems only ubuntu like distros work for me here Smile

the following iso works for me doing iso NTFS booting with permission to write to the hdd I booted from.
LMDE-11 linuxmint-11-gnome-dvd-32bit.iso
Peppermint-Two.iso
Elementary OS elementaryos0.1-jupiter-i386.iso
Bodhi Linux boots from bodhi_1.2.1.iso

While your Pussy, AntiX, Swift, Semplice_2.0 Crunchbang Staedtler
and some more fails to give me permissions. And that seems to be
a Debian policy that every version hold on to while Ubuntu has allowed
it in latest versions.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 08:38    Post subject:  

Since my latest post in this thread I have tested several iso to boot frugally and Debian is set up to not allow one to get access to the drive
that one boot from.

That explains why it does not allow saving to it in Pussy and the same for
Crunchbang, for Semplice, for SalineOS that I tested today and many others.

So it conflicts with your purpose to have Pussy 100% compatible
with Debian. You will either find a solution to this policy of not
access and then Debian will not want to help Pussy users?

You will be on your own due to breach of silent agreement on security?

That is my pessimistic take on it.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2373
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 09:58    Post subject:  

I think pussy linux have a future even if the boot NTFS partition writing problem continue to exist.
Sickgut made it for Live CD use with save file anyway. Frugal install is a big bonus, because it has a RW access to all other boot partitions. Only NTFS has a problem.
There is a simple solution of that. Just have to make a small vfat or ext partition on the HDD to boot from it.Smile
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 10:08    Post subject:  

copied pussy in a folder on sdcard along with many of my existing puppys. grub booting with
Code:

title Pussy live persistent 
root            (hd1,0)
kernel          /live/vmlinuz   boot=live config   persistent swapon noprompt   quickreboot noautologin
initrd          /live/initrd.img

am reading and writing persistently to folder /liverw on the same sdcard while pussy is running.
modifications into the /live folder itself eg /ect/wvdial.conf are not holding through reboot. have to experiment more.



Code:
root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~#


also posting this from pussy using my /sdb3 located portable opera-next.
effectively nearly a complete ordinary puppy.
2011-10-28_800x480_scrot.png
 Description   
 Filesize   61.09 KB
 Viewed   655 Time(s)

2011-10-28_800x480_scrot.png


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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 10:33    Post subject:  

Its not because of a secret betrayal that once Pussy moves away from the 100% debain-live that pussy users wouldnt be able to get the same support from the debian-live community, if there are core things changed in the OS then what works on normal debian-live wont always work on Pussy, so the advice will not always be correct and Pussy users might send info to do with configs or files and the debian-live experts would see it and realize that there are fundamental differences and this means they would simply say "we cant support this type of change, we only support debian-live, what you have here is something different, you should contact the people who made the changes for support...."

but normal debian obviously allows writing to the ntfs drive it booted from... the problem is that being a debian-live system, not a debian normal... the boot partition is always treated as live-media (ie. a cdrom drive) and writing to it isnt really a high priority. When you use a cdrom or usb stick for the live system its expected that none of these will be NTFS, the usb is always meant to be a FAT32 and the CDROM is unwritable anyway........

the debian-live isnt designed to be copied to a HDD and then booted with grub, so there will be problems. When you have a ntfs partition on your computer, pussy will now write to the save file if its on this partition if you use a cdrom or usb to boot from, once the ntfs parition is also the live-media, its treated like a cdrom or an iso... both are unwritable...

its always been my goal to make pussy a live distro for usb sticks, then i discovered i could remaster it to cdrom, then you guys came up with HDD install..... and thats cool.

we could solve the HDD ntfs issue immediately by going with normal debian not debian li ve..... but we would loose easy usb and cdrom live support and i see that as more important than HDD support.

oh well i havent exausted all my options for making pussy write to ntfs boot partition yet... even if i dont find a way to fix this, the debian-live team have realized alot of people are using hdd install and they will fix the NTFS thing on their end. Debian is slow to introduce new features, its rigorous testing of all new additions before they are released means its very stable.... it may seem we have to always wait forever for new features but if we compare our stability and speed to the next logical choice for something more bleeding edge... Ubuntu... its easy to see we are working with the right base, as Ubuntu is slower, bigger and not as stable and doesnt work with older hardware as well.

whatever happends now with solutions for the ntfs boot partition writing problem... it will get fixed, either we will sort it out ourselves or the debian team will include a fix in the next release. Either way its just patience, it will get fixed either way with the worst case being that its fixed in a few months.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 11:04    Post subject:  

aarf wrote:
copied pussy in a folder on sdcard along with many of my existing puppys. grub booting with
Code:

title Pussy live persistent 
root            (hd1,0)
kernel          /live/vmlinuz   boot=live config   persistent swapon noprompt   quickreboot noautologin
initrd          /live/initrd.img

am reading and writing persistently to folder /liverw on the same sdcard while pussy is running.
modifications into the /live folder itself eg /ect/wvdial.conf are not holding through reboot. have to experiment more.

Code:
root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~#


also posting this from pussy using my /sdb3 located portable opera-next.
effectively nearly a complete ordinary puppy.


glad its all working for you with your other puppies on the sdcard and you have write access. If you are using a /live-rw folder.... this is not the same as the live-rw save file or live-rw partition, in such a case... /etc/ folder will accept changes while pussy is running but they will return to normal and be lost on reboot, however ... writing to the /live/image/ or /live/image/live folder will be persistent through reboot, and if you mount the sdcard: mount /dev/sdb3 /mountpoint and write it will also persist through reboot.

the "drive" icon on the desktop also is a direct link to /live/image/ and clicking on "drive" and saving in the folder it opens will be persistent through reboot with or without a save file.

if you wish to have the standard savefile or save partition setup that is updated in realtime and is noncompressed (recommended) then you use gparted in pussy to changed a partition label to: live-rw and next time pussy boots it will write to this partition and all your changes will be kept. The live-rw savefile way is to extract the example save file from the website onto any of your drives and the next time you boot pussy it will write to this file. You can create the live-rw file manually with:

dd if=/dev/null of=live-rw bs=1M seek=2000
mkfs.ext2 -F "live-rw"

this makes a 2gb save file, the seek= value is the size of the save file in MB. Make sure to cd to the drive / partition you wanna have the save file on before you enter the commands in the terminal.

Note: to use the normal live-rw save method, you need a live-rw save file or live-rw partition only.... NOT a live-rw folder. Pussy will not automatically detect a /live-rw folder and save your changes in it

/live/image/ <----- live media is located here, non writable if its a cdrom, but usb or sdcard installs should be writable even without a save file.

/live/cow <------ if you have no save file, your changes are saved in ram, and the changes are saved in this folder. Also if you have a save file the changes are saved here too but they are also saved in the save file, this is because /live/cow is a mountpoint for the save file. COW stands for copy on write, ie its the complete set of changes to the normal pussy since it was booted.

In the catroll-panel ---> save file ----> update save file... if you are using usb or non ntfs hdd to boot from then using this save method copies everything in /live/cow to a new squashfs file and saves it in /live/image/ may take a while to create the new squashfs if there are alot of changes. This is the compressed save file method and doesnt require the normal live-rw save file setup, but if you use this compressed save file method, chages are saved ONLY when you click update save file. This compressed way doesnt work on cdrom booted systems because it writes to the live media itself and cdroms arent writable directly. This way is also cool because it requires no setup process, on first boot you click update save file and boom, its done.

the command that the update save file option in catroll-panel ---> save file.. executes is:

mksquashfs /live/cow /live/image/savefile.squashfs

you can run this yourself from a terminal instead of clicking the icon in the catroll-panel and you can see it working. The save file becomes part of the live system just like the pussy-os.squashfs and this is a quick way of remastering pussy, you can rename the savefile to something else and upload it to the internet and people can download it and put it in their /live/image folder and they are now running any modifications you made Smile
this is how i have been making the additional squashfs files like the pussyxtra.squashfs that contains the extra apps that im working on.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2373
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 11:41    Post subject:  

aarf wrote:
Code:
root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~#

Aarf, I already installed pmount and it worked.
Did you start apt-get with this command first?
Code:
apt-get update
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 12:35    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:
aarf wrote:

Code:
root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~#

Aarf, I already installed pmount and it worked.
Did you start apt-get with this command first?
Code:
apt-get update


after
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install pmount
apt-get -f install
to fix dependencies
gives ....
Code:
 ....

 intltool-debian less libalgorithm-diff-perl libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl
  libalgorithm-merge-perl libapr1 libaprutil1 libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcroco3
  libdpkg-perl liberror-perl libgomp1 libmail-sendmail-perl libneon27-gnutls
  libnewt0.52 libserf-0-0 libstdc++6-4.4-dev libsvn1 libsys-hostname-long-perl
  libtimedate-perl libunistring0 linux-libc-dev linux-wlan-ng
  linux-wlan-ng-doc linux-wlan-ng-source make man-db manpages manpages-dev
  module-assistant patch po-debconf subversion whiptail
Suggested packages:
  binutils-doc wamerican wordlist whois vacation dh-make debian-keyring
  g++-multilib g++-4.4-multilib gcc-4.4-doc libstdc++6-4.4-dbg gcc-multilib
  autoconf automake1.9 libtool flex bison gdb gcc-doc gcc-4.4-multilib
  libmudflap0-4.4-dev gcc-4.4-locales libgcc1-dbg libgomp1-dbg libmudflap0-dbg
  libcloog-ppl0 libppl-c2 libppl7 gettext-doc git-doc git-arch git-cvs git-svn
  git-email git-daemon-run git-gui gitk gitweb groff glibc-doc
  libstdc++6-4.4-doc kernel-package make-doc man-browser ed diffutils-doc
  libmail-box-perl subversion-tools db4.8-util
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  autopoint binutils bsdmainutils build-essential debhelper dpkg-dev fakeroot
  g++ g++-4.4 gcc gcc-4.4 gettext gettext-base git groff-base html2text
  intltool-debian less libalgorithm-diff-perl libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl
  libalgorithm-merge-perl libapr1 libaprutil1 libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcroco3
  libdpkg-perl liberror-perl libgomp1 libmail-sendmail-perl libneon27-gnutls
  libnewt0.52 libserf-0-0 libstdc++6-4.4-dev libsvn1 libsys-hostname-long-perl
  libtimedate-perl libunistring0 linux-libc-dev linux-wlan-ng
  linux-wlan-ng-doc linux-wlan-ng-source make man-db manpages manpages-dev
  module-assistant patch po-debconf subversion whiptail
0 upgraded, 51 newly installed, 0 to remove and 55 not upgraded.
3 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 38.8 MB of archives.
After this operation, 112 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?

pulled the plug here because my Internet connection is too slow.
will just use the mount scripts i posted earlier for now.

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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Fri 28 Oct 2011, 12:46    Post subject:  

@sickgut sorry to make you repeat all that save stuff again. read the release notes for alpha pussy before you posted and the save info is mostly in there. i had forgotten it has been so long since i read it. but some useful new tips about squashfs in your latest post. thanks.
note i couldn't non-grub boot the latest iso when extracted and copied to usb flashdrive without first copying/adding the different boot things (isoliux folder and ldlinux.sys) from the alpha.

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