Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager

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sickgut
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#501 Post by sickgut »

saintless wrote:
sickgut wrote:While we are on the subject of artwork, what is your opinions of the boot splash screen that is used in the live cdrom iso?
I like it. I think you should not change it.
The third cat wallpaper is fine for me too.
cool, glad you like the boot screen. I am currently in the stages of designing the new pussyxtra.squashfs that contains the extra apps, i think i will use the cats eye wall paper in it and see what everyone thinks about it.

nooby
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#502 Post by nooby »

Seems to be a wise policy for your version.
so will be interesting.

may I ask. which other debian i there out there?
Is crunchbang maybe pure debian? Do them tell such on DW?
Maybe Mephis? AntiX maybe is too changed to be seen as pure?
Seems only ubuntu like distros work for me here :)

the following iso works for me doing iso NTFS booting with permission to write to the hdd I booted from.
LMDE-11 linuxmint-11-gnome-dvd-32bit.iso
Peppermint-Two.iso
Elementary OS elementaryos0.1-jupiter-i386.iso
Bodhi Linux boots from bodhi_1.2.1.iso

While your Pussy, AntiX, Swift, Semplice_2.0 Crunchbang Staedtler
and some more fails to give me permissions. And that seems to be
a Debian policy that every version hold on to while Ubuntu has allowed
it in latest versions.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#503 Post by nooby »

Since my latest post in this thread I have tested several iso to boot frugally and Debian is set up to not allow one to get access to the drive
that one boot from.

That explains why it does not allow saving to it in Pussy and the same for
Crunchbang, for Semplice, for SalineOS that I tested today and many others.

So it conflicts with your purpose to have Pussy 100% compatible
with Debian. You will either find a solution to this policy of not
access and then Debian will not want to help Pussy users?

You will be on your own due to breach of silent agreement on security?

That is my pessimistic take on it.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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saintless
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Location: Bulgaria

#504 Post by saintless »

I think pussy linux have a future even if the boot NTFS partition writing problem continue to exist.
Sickgut made it for Live CD use with save file anyway. Frugal install is a big bonus, because it has a RW access to all other boot partitions. Only NTFS has a problem.
There is a simple solution of that. Just have to make a small vfat or ext partition on the HDD to boot from it.:)

aarf

#505 Post by aarf »

copied pussy in a folder on sdcard along with many of my existing puppys. grub booting with

Code: Select all

title Pussy live persistent  
root            (hd1,0)
kernel          /live/vmlinuz   boot=live config   persistent swapon noprompt   quickreboot noautologin
initrd          /live/initrd.img 
am reading and writing persistently to folder /liverw on the same sdcard while pussy is running.
modifications into the /live folder itself eg /ect/wvdial.conf are not holding through reboot. have to experiment more.


Code: Select all

root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~# 

also posting this from pussy using my /sdb3 located portable opera-next.
effectively nearly a complete ordinary puppy.

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sickgut
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#506 Post by sickgut »

Its not because of a secret betrayal that once Pussy moves away from the 100% debain-live that pussy users wouldnt be able to get the same support from the debian-live community, if there are core things changed in the OS then what works on normal debian-live wont always work on Pussy, so the advice will not always be correct and Pussy users might send info to do with configs or files and the debian-live experts would see it and realize that there are fundamental differences and this means they would simply say "we cant support this type of change, we only support debian-live, what you have here is something different, you should contact the people who made the changes for support...."

but normal debian obviously allows writing to the ntfs drive it booted from... the problem is that being a debian-live system, not a debian normal... the boot partition is always treated as live-media (ie. a cdrom drive) and writing to it isnt really a high priority. When you use a cdrom or usb stick for the live system its expected that none of these will be NTFS, the usb is always meant to be a FAT32 and the CDROM is unwritable anyway........

the debian-live isnt designed to be copied to a HDD and then booted with grub, so there will be problems. When you have a ntfs partition on your computer, pussy will now write to the save file if its on this partition if you use a cdrom or usb to boot from, once the ntfs parition is also the live-media, its treated like a cdrom or an iso... both are unwritable...

its always been my goal to make pussy a live distro for usb sticks, then i discovered i could remaster it to cdrom, then you guys came up with HDD install..... and thats cool.

we could solve the HDD ntfs issue immediately by going with normal debian not debian li ve..... but we would loose easy usb and cdrom live support and i see that as more important than HDD support.

oh well i havent exausted all my options for making pussy write to ntfs boot partition yet... even if i dont find a way to fix this, the debian-live team have realized alot of people are using hdd install and they will fix the NTFS thing on their end. Debian is slow to introduce new features, its rigorous testing of all new additions before they are released means its very stable.... it may seem we have to always wait forever for new features but if we compare our stability and speed to the next logical choice for something more bleeding edge... Ubuntu... its easy to see we are working with the right base, as Ubuntu is slower, bigger and not as stable and doesnt work with older hardware as well.

whatever happends now with solutions for the ntfs boot partition writing problem... it will get fixed, either we will sort it out ourselves or the debian team will include a fix in the next release. Either way its just patience, it will get fixed either way with the worst case being that its fixed in a few months.

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sickgut
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#507 Post by sickgut »

aarf wrote:copied pussy in a folder on sdcard along with many of my existing puppys. grub booting with

Code: Select all

title Pussy live persistent  
root            (hd1,0)
kernel          /live/vmlinuz   boot=live config   persistent swapon noprompt   quickreboot noautologin
initrd          /live/initrd.img 
am reading and writing persistently to folder /liverw on the same sdcard while pussy is running.
modifications into the /live folder itself eg /ect/wvdial.conf are not holding through reboot. have to experiment more.

Code: Select all

root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~# 

also posting this from pussy using my /sdb3 located portable opera-next.
effectively nearly a complete ordinary puppy.
glad its all working for you with your other puppies on the sdcard and you have write access. If you are using a /live-rw folder.... this is not the same as the live-rw save file or live-rw partition, in such a case... /etc/ folder will accept changes while pussy is running but they will return to normal and be lost on reboot, however ... writing to the /live/image/ or /live/image/live folder will be persistent through reboot, and if you mount the sdcard: mount /dev/sdb3 /mountpoint and write it will also persist through reboot.

the "drive" icon on the desktop also is a direct link to /live/image/ and clicking on "drive" and saving in the folder it opens will be persistent through reboot with or without a save file.

if you wish to have the standard savefile or save partition setup that is updated in realtime and is noncompressed (recommended) then you use gparted in pussy to changed a partition label to: live-rw and next time pussy boots it will write to this partition and all your changes will be kept. The live-rw savefile way is to extract the example save file from the website onto any of your drives and the next time you boot pussy it will write to this file. You can create the live-rw file manually with:

dd if=/dev/null of=live-rw bs=1M seek=2000
mkfs.ext2 -F "live-rw"

this makes a 2gb save file, the seek= value is the size of the save file in MB. Make sure to cd to the drive / partition you wanna have the save file on before you enter the commands in the terminal.

Note: to use the normal live-rw save method, you need a live-rw save file or live-rw partition only.... NOT a live-rw folder. Pussy will not automatically detect a /live-rw folder and save your changes in it

/live/image/ <----- live media is located here, non writable if its a cdrom, but usb or sdcard installs should be writable even without a save file.

/live/cow <------ if you have no save file, your changes are saved in ram, and the changes are saved in this folder. Also if you have a save file the changes are saved here too but they are also saved in the save file, this is because /live/cow is a mountpoint for the save file. COW stands for copy on write, ie its the complete set of changes to the normal pussy since it was booted.

In the catroll-panel ---> save file ----> update save file... if you are using usb or non ntfs hdd to boot from then using this save method copies everything in /live/cow to a new squashfs file and saves it in /live/image/ may take a while to create the new squashfs if there are alot of changes. This is the compressed save file method and doesnt require the normal live-rw save file setup, but if you use this compressed save file method, chages are saved ONLY when you click update save file. This compressed way doesnt work on cdrom booted systems because it writes to the live media itself and cdroms arent writable directly. This way is also cool because it requires no setup process, on first boot you click update save file and boom, its done.

the command that the update save file option in catroll-panel ---> save file.. executes is:

mksquashfs /live/cow /live/image/savefile.squashfs

you can run this yourself from a terminal instead of clicking the icon in the catroll-panel and you can see it working. The save file becomes part of the live system just like the pussy-os.squashfs and this is a quick way of remastering pussy, you can rename the savefile to something else and upload it to the internet and people can download it and put it in their /live/image folder and they are now running any modifications you made :)
this is how i have been making the additional squashfs files like the pussyxtra.squashfs that contains the extra apps that im working on.

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saintless
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#508 Post by saintless »

aarf wrote:

Code: Select all

root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~# 
Aarf, I already installed pmount and it worked.
Did you start apt-get with this command first?

Code: Select all

apt-get update

aarf

#509 Post by aarf »

saintless wrote:
aarf wrote:

Code: Select all

root@meow:~# apt-get pmount
E: Invalid operation pmount
root@meow:~# apt-get install pmount
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
E: Unable to locate package pmount
root@meow:~# 
Aarf, I already installed pmount and it worked.
Did you start apt-get with this command first?

Code: Select all

apt-get update
after

Code: Select all

apt-get update
apt-get install pmount
apt-get -f install
to fix dependencies
gives ....

Code: Select all

 ....

 intltool-debian less libalgorithm-diff-perl libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl
  libalgorithm-merge-perl libapr1 libaprutil1 libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcroco3
  libdpkg-perl liberror-perl libgomp1 libmail-sendmail-perl libneon27-gnutls
  libnewt0.52 libserf-0-0 libstdc++6-4.4-dev libsvn1 libsys-hostname-long-perl
  libtimedate-perl libunistring0 linux-libc-dev linux-wlan-ng
  linux-wlan-ng-doc linux-wlan-ng-source make man-db manpages manpages-dev
  module-assistant patch po-debconf subversion whiptail
Suggested packages:
  binutils-doc wamerican wordlist whois vacation dh-make debian-keyring
  g++-multilib g++-4.4-multilib gcc-4.4-doc libstdc++6-4.4-dbg gcc-multilib
  autoconf automake1.9 libtool flex bison gdb gcc-doc gcc-4.4-multilib
  libmudflap0-4.4-dev gcc-4.4-locales libgcc1-dbg libgomp1-dbg libmudflap0-dbg
  libcloog-ppl0 libppl-c2 libppl7 gettext-doc git-doc git-arch git-cvs git-svn
  git-email git-daemon-run git-gui gitk gitweb groff glibc-doc
  libstdc++6-4.4-doc kernel-package make-doc man-browser ed diffutils-doc
  libmail-box-perl subversion-tools db4.8-util
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  autopoint binutils bsdmainutils build-essential debhelper dpkg-dev fakeroot
  g++ g++-4.4 gcc gcc-4.4 gettext gettext-base git groff-base html2text
  intltool-debian less libalgorithm-diff-perl libalgorithm-diff-xs-perl
  libalgorithm-merge-perl libapr1 libaprutil1 libc-dev-bin libc6-dev libcroco3
  libdpkg-perl liberror-perl libgomp1 libmail-sendmail-perl libneon27-gnutls
  libnewt0.52 libserf-0-0 libstdc++6-4.4-dev libsvn1 libsys-hostname-long-perl
  libtimedate-perl libunistring0 linux-libc-dev linux-wlan-ng
  linux-wlan-ng-doc linux-wlan-ng-source make man-db manpages manpages-dev
  module-assistant patch po-debconf subversion whiptail
0 upgraded, 51 newly installed, 0 to remove and 55 not upgraded.
3 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 38.8 MB of archives.
After this operation, 112 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? 
pulled the plug here because my Internet connection is too slow.
will just use the mount scripts i posted earlier for now.

aarf

#510 Post by aarf »

@sickgut sorry to make you repeat all that save stuff again. read the release notes for alpha pussy before you posted and the save info is mostly in there. i had forgotten it has been so long since i read it. but some useful new tips about squashfs in your latest post. thanks.
note i couldn't non-grub boot the latest iso when extracted and copied to usb flashdrive without first copying/adding the different boot things (isoliux folder and ldlinux.sys) from the alpha.

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sickgut
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#511 Post by sickgut »

aarf wrote:@sickgut sorry to make you repeat all that save stuff again. read the release notes for alpha pussy before you posted and the save info is mostly in there. i had forgotten it has been so long since i read it. but some useful new tips about squashfs in your latest post. thanks.
note i couldn't non-grub boot the latest iso when extracted and copied to usb flashdrive without first copying/adding the different boot things (isoliux folder and ldlinux.sys) from the alpha.
its all cool, the release notes didnt have quite the same info so i dont mind elaborating on it again. The .img version made for USB, you just run this command to image the usb stick with the .img version not the .iso (after unzipping it the .img.gz makes the .img)

dd if=pussy-alpha-full-usb.img of=/dev/sdb

(note that its the drive thats specified, not the drive AND partition, this is because the .img contains the parition info aswell)

I have not released the .img version for the beta preview yet, but you can still image a usb stick with the old alpha and then manually copy the new pussy-beta-os.sqaushfs and seamonkey.squashfs onto it and then you have a working usb stick. i will release beta preview .img versions on the website after i have finnished this last pussyxtra.squashfs file with the extra apps, so the beta preview is finally complete

its tricky to make the .iso usb bootable, so thats why we have the already to go .img that is actually a complete image of a usb stick and covers the first 699mb of your usb stick. (699mb is the expected size of the largest version of Pussy, this leaves room to upgrade the usb stick to newer or larger versions... also 1mb is set aside for more advanced boot stuff in the future, totalling 700mb).

there is 2 directions to go with the usb .img setup, we can either keep the image 700mb in size and leave it to the user to setup the persistent save file, or use gparted to extend the partition to cover the rest of the drive and then use the control-panel compressed save file method for saving.... this is direction number 1... and the current method.

number 2 is to pick a standard size for the usb image like 2gb or 4gb or 8gb, to support the most popular/ affordable size of usb stick. Just say we pick 4GB. We create a working 4gb usb stick that contains the full Pussy, ASWELL as a swap file or partition, and a live-rw file. This would be a fat32 format for the main partition so that the user can still use the usb stick in windows based machines. We also dont have to worry about disk fragmentation as the live-rw being a single file, it doesnt get very fragmented.

using the second method the user would never have to configure a thing at all, its all there. We could have separate downloads for different sized usb sticks.

note that the .img version can be imaged to a hdd and it works immediately without the user having to configure grub, but this would be the only booting OS on the HDD. This is cool if you just wanna use pussy, or you have multiple hdds in one computer and can change what one to boot from in the bios or the motherboards boot screen by pression f2 or f8/ f12 or esc or whatever. I used this method myself for a long time. And hdd writ e access works every time, when i use this method, i use the rest of the hdd space as a ext2 parition labled as live-rw.

again, you probably know all this but im elaborating for other users to read.

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sickgut
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#512 Post by sickgut »

Work on the new pussyxtra.squashfs is finnished now, its 364mb in size. This is the optional squashfs that the base 244mb ISO doesnt come with, this contains all the extra apps.

This version of the pussyxtra.squashfs contains the following apps:

GIMP, inkscape (full not lite), openoffice 3.2, assaultcube, virtualbox and java runtime (both newest versions from Oracle), wine, dosemu, cadubi, milkytracker (plays older .mod music files, also creates them), lmms, freepats (free wavetable samples for timidity midi player), new high quality wallpaper when rox filer background is enabled. (i would have used the same wallpaper for the jwm background that loads before you select rox background, but jwm only supports xpm files and this would have resulted in the image being almost 4mb in size. Instead, the old pussy background is loaded when you use just the jwm background when you first login to xorg, but the new high quality 150kb jpeg background is enabled when rox background is selected).

this version fixes the bug that spams apt-get with screens of errors when you install something, it was harmless errors spam, but its all cleaned up now, it was caused by squashfs treating symlinks as files but its fixed with this version.

Not much has really changed, just a new wallpaper, virtualbox, removal of clipgrabber and bug fixes. The only real reason this file had to be redone was because of changes to the base os, and the moving of the browser to a separate squashfs file.

You can download this beta preview version of the file and insert it into your live media dir and your good to go, or you can download the new iso that includes it

Files currently uploading, will edit this post when the upload is finnished:

[edit: finished uploading its all good to go]

for the squashfs file itself:
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux ... a.squashfs

for the new iso:
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux ... w-xtra.iso

Note that if you are just adding the pussyxtra file to your existing pussy, make sure that it is 4th on the loading sequence.... in order, the squashfs files should be loaded:

1filesystem, 2pussyos-beta, 3seamonkey, 4pussyxtra-beta

the live system loaded it all in alphabetical/ numerical order, so to get the right sequence you may need to rename the files and put a number in the front of them as per the above example. Ofcause the .iso will load in the correct order as all the new .iso releases now have the numbers at the start of the filename.

Ok have fun... im off to eat a pizza, watch a movie then goto sleep after 14 hours straight squash file making.
Last edited by sickgut on Sat 29 Oct 2011, 05:59, edited 1 time in total.

aarf

#513 Post by aarf »

dd invalid option -F
When trying to create the live-rw
Catroll-panel>save-file>update-save-file does the squashfs save file persistent job. Better as dont need to specify a big amount of space in advance and can expand at will.

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sickgut
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#514 Post by sickgut »

aarf wrote:dd invalid option -F
When trying to create the live-rw
Catroll-panel>save-file>update-save-file does the squashfs save file persistent job. Better as dont need to specify a big amount of space in advance and can expand at will.
hi aarf...

thanks for your input regarding the usb setup... i think i can make a script that you can click and it will extend the already there fat32 partition and make it fill the rest of the usb stick, this is just one click and it will fill the rest of any size usb stick. I will test this out and then make a catroll-panel entry for it along with alot of other catroll-panel stuff, there is alot of work to do there, havent even scratched the surface of save files, swap files etc and other disk related stuff, also the keymap and alsa fixes that saintless posted recently.

re: manually making save files
ok these are 2 separate commands on 2 lines, like type the first line then press enter, wait for command to finish then type next command.

dd if=/dev/null of=live-rw bs=1M seek=2000 <enter>
mkfs.ext2 -F "live-rw" <enter>

i should really copy and paste the shell terminal output to be less confusing to people.

@ everyone....
in the catroll-panel --> save-file --> update save file..... this only works if you havent renamed your /live dir to something else, as the script here literally presumes its still the standard /live dir:

mksquashfs /live/cow /live/image/live/savefile.squashfs

if you have done a hdd install and have renamed your live media dir to something else then it will error out.

nooby
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Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#515 Post by nooby »

Sickgut here is a naive suggestion from a noob.

You care much about being Debian compatible.
Could you have then Pussy Debian version
and Pussy Puppy version.

1. Pussy Debian version
That version should be exactly as you have it now.
It totally fail to do what I want and that is what the Debian devs
want it to be. I should not be able to change anything on the hdd.

2. Pussy Puppy version.

this version should behave as a puppy derivative does.
Not only be able to save changes I do to a html file or text file
but also save to a loop mounted sfs 2fs 3fs file like puppy does.

All on NTFS that is. Frugal booted using Grub4DOS puppy style.

While the Pussy Debian version should be Grub2 obviously
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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sickgut
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#516 Post by sickgut »

arrrgh!!!

The new pussy-beta-preview-xtra.iso seems to be ok except for VirtualBox not wanting to work. Tomorrow or the day after ill remaster the pussyxtra-beta.squashfs file again and either fix this or remove virtualbox from it all together.

i think this is the same promblem i was having before with squashfs, some links are treated as files and some programs dont like that... the virtual box worked fine before i remastered it, but as soon as its in a squashfs file its broken again. However you may be able to get it to actually work buy reinstalling somethings but that isnt good enoiugh for this release so ill fix it. Altho this isnt even the real beta yet, i dont like having bugs.. we are still missing quite a few catroll-panel type features and thats ok for a pre beta but bugs and brokeness is bad so ill reupload working versions of the squashfs file and xtra.iso in a day or 2. Ill post here when the new versions are uploaded..

note this also affects users who have upgraded their hdd or usb install to the new file from the website. In the meantime, have a look around in the OS and its all fine apart from that one program. You might like to remove the icon for virtual box from the desktop if your overly fussy.

this will be fixed soon and the squashfs file and the xtra.iso from the website will be replaced... but in the mean time its still worth downloading and having a look
Last edited by sickgut on Sat 29 Oct 2011, 09:49, edited 1 time in total.

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sickgut
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#517 Post by sickgut »

nooby wrote:Sickgut here is a naive suggestion from a noob.

You care much about being Debian compatible.
Could you have then Pussy Debian version
and Pussy Puppy version.

1. Pussy Debian version
That version should be exactly as you have it now.
It totally fail to do what I want and that is what the Debian devs
want it to be. I should not be able to change anything on the hdd.

2. Pussy Puppy version.

this version should behave as a puppy derivative does.
Not only be able to save changes I do to a html file or text file
but also save to a loop mounted sfs 2fs 3fs file like puppy does.

All on NTFS that is. Frugal booted using Grub4DOS puppy style.

While the Pussy Debian version should be Grub2 obviously
hi nooby

sorry dude but forking into 2 directions is beyond my capabilities at the moment, since ive started working on pussy again its is literally taking up every ounce of my time. Im working at it 12 to 14 hours a day at present.

make no mistake i am putting my all into this distro and all the niggling problems like the ntfs write to boot parition issue will be sorted out while still retaining compatibility. Its not going to be fixed in the next 2 days as ill be busy updating the buggy xtra.iso that was uploaded today. But after that is done there is a few things i havent tried yet and im sure ill figure it out. in the mean time just be patient, it will get fixed.

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Ray MK
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Location: UK

#518 Post by Ray MK »

Hi sickgut

really nice backdrop - luvly pussy pic.
have downloaded iso and will burn to CD.

will let you know how I get on - greatly appreciate all you are doing.

many thanks and very best regards - Ray

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#519 Post by nooby »

Okay I be patient. But being a New Born Fundy Pessimist
I would say this. Being Unix supporters the Debian Devs
will never allow you to change Debian into allowing it
to save changes to the NTFS drive one boot from frugally.

That would betray their ideals and their honor. Trust me :)

I now will go into lurk mode and try to keep a low profile.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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saintless
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#520 Post by saintless »

Thank you, sickgut, downloading and start testing.
I think there is no need to fix the problem with VirtualBox. if anyone wants it, he can easy install it with apt-get.
It needs too much RAM to be used and pussy linux is running fine on a low RAM computer.
If someone install pussy linux on a PC with 128 -256 MB RAM, he can not use VirtualBOX anyway.
Thank you for the great job!

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