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Lucid Puppy 5.2.8 - Updated ISO Version 005 - APR 05 2012
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011, 21:11    Post subject: 525 Full to 528 Upgrade?  

Has anyone done a 525 full to 528 full upgrade yet?

And are their some gotyas to deal with?

In the past the things I have done are, copy the /root to a safe place and reinstall pets/programs after upgrade, then bring back the root components and my data for what didn't work afterwards.

However this is the first time (I think) we have a 'propper' upgrade.
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1541
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct 2011, 22:45    Post subject: Unfounded concern - please ignore it.
Subject description: The issue applies in only a few special cases - see EDIT
 

scsijon,
Although I have not done an upgrade of a full installation, I am the person who updated the script that performs the update process. I am therefore interested in how it works for you.

scsijon wrote:
However this is the first time (I think) we have a 'propper' upgrade.
Well, we have an improved update script that cleans out obsolete files and makes some corrections. The "catch" or "gotcha" is that the old version of the updater runs when you install 528 over 525 (or other earlier lupu). The new updater gets added after everything else. because you don't want to replace it while the old version is running, which could cause it to abort.

The avoid the "catch", I created a small pre-upgrade package that installs the new updater, so the new updater is available when needed for the full upgrade. I have not reviewed that package since beginning work on 528, so need a little time to do that before adding it to this thread.

Background about the pre-upgrade package: It is associated with my package that can be used to add the "modem-modprobe" updates to any lucid pup before 527. But since that package is now part of lupu 528, I need to make the pre-upgrade package more readily available to users of 528.

To get the best results from your upgrade, please wait for me to post the pre-upgrade package after I have verified that it is up to date with what is needed for 528. It probably is, but I want to be sure.

Thanks for asking the question, so that I can do what I should have done earlier, but overlooked in my quest to get 528 right.

However, there is one thing I am concerned about that you might already know. I am not convinced that the updated versions of utilities such as pburn and pfind get placed into the new pupsave or full installation. If that is the case, things look ugly, in that you are stuck with older versions. Please tell me what you know about that.

EDIT: This is actually not a concern. It applies only to frugal installations where a "modem-modprobe" package has been installed. It is very unlikely that any lucid-pup users installed such a package, so this issue can be ignored. (Anyone who has installed such a package can get the pre-update package in the same thread where they got "modem-modprobe".)
Richard

Last edited by rerwin on Tue 04 Oct 2011, 13:49; edited 1 time in total
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4819
Location: GB

PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011, 03:46    Post subject:  

I only work with FULL installs for all the reasons expounded previously, even though Barry never intended it to run this way. I have been aware of some issues, but they have rarely got in the way of what I expect. Important data and downloads have generally not been compromised - that is the main concern. However, I would be most interested to learn about the outcome of the present deliberations. I suppose the question to ask is how the major distros contend with the Catch22 issues because they are intended to be used as FULL installations in most cases.
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011, 04:26    Post subject:  

rerwin wrote:
scsijon,
Although I have not done an upgrade of a full installation, I am the person who updated the script that performs the update process. I am therefore interested in how it works for you.

scsijon wrote:
However this is the first time (I think) we have a 'propper' upgrade.
Well, we have an improved update script that cleans out obsolete files and makes some corrections. The "catch" or "gotcha" is that the old version of the updater runs when you install 528 over 525 (or other earlier lupu). The new updater gets added after everything else. because you don't want to replace it while the old version is running, which could cause it to abort.

The avoid the "catch", I created a small pre-upgrade package that installs the new updater, so the new updater is available when needed for the full upgrade. I have not reviewed that package since beginning work on 528, so need a little time to do that before adding it to this thread.

Background about the pre-upgrade package: It is associated with my package that can be used to add the "modem-modprobe" updates to any lucid pup before 527. But since that package is now part of lupu 528, I need to make the pre-upgrade package more readily available to users of 528.

To get the best results from your upgrade, please wait for me to post the pre-upgrade package after I have verified that it is up to date with what is needed for 528. It probably is, but I want to be sure.

Thanks for asking the question, so that I can do what I should have done earlier, but overlooked in my quest to get 528 right.

However, there is one thing I am concerned about that you might already know. I am not convinced that the updated versions of utilities such as pburn and pfind get placed into the new pupsave or full installation. If that is the case, things look ugly, in that you are stuck with older versions. Please tell me what you know about that.
Richard


OK Richard,

I do use pfind and have found it updated as long as there are no extraneous devices mounted OR rox was used to mount partitions, the console mount and unmount commands seem to work ok. Currently I have Pfind version 421 in my 525 according to the .pfind config file (couldn't see anywhere else to find it).
Pburn is version 334, I haven't use it yet as my sat workstation has only just got a writer installed, cost $1 down the local tip's swap shed and it's even dual layer with Lightscribe, a 'steal', reads a lot faster than my old 8X dvd reader too Very Happy .
Hope these are still right for 525 as I have done a 'few' pets since.

I shall await your pre-updater. Then I shall have a go the following weekend, use my full puppy documentation process rather than the shortened one I usually use for updates, just in case, and post results with comments the following week. Maybe this time I will also pre-copy the whole partition to my backup drive, there is too much to copy to a stick or burn a dvd across the e'net this time, just in case either the result of the upgrade is unworkable or will be too time consuming to deal with!

I do wish one of our 'senior' programming guru's would consider taking on the project of splitting installed apps/pet's into a separate prenamed/automounted sfs for what is not in /root. Not as easy task as you would think as there are many hidden links, paths and the like to deal with!

@sage and others,
I use full installs, when I am happy that the frugal release is bedded down to 'my' satisfaction. These are also used for my developing and long term systems after trying the combination of apps and utilities I work with on a daily basis. I also find they seem to run faster than frugals on most of my workstations, none of which is less than four years old.

regards
scsijon
edits, damn typsos
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1541
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011, 12:53    Post subject:  

scsijon,
Good news! My concerns about the pre-upgrade package apply only to frugal installations where a "modem-modprobe" package has been installed and where the new puppy is older than lupu 527. For full installations, the entire new version of puppy is copied into the installation before the rc.update script is run. So the new version is used.

Regarding the puppy applications: If you have installed any dot-pet packages that upgrade puppy components or bundled applications, I suggest uninstalling them before upgrading lupu, unless you know you prefer your version over that in 528. Say, if you upgraded pfind, the puppy installer has a record of that, which probably remains after a puppy upgrade. Uninstalling the added pfind would remove that record, but it would also delete pfind itself, which is OK if you do the upgrade before trying to use it. Without the uninstallation, the installer will still use the new puppy version of pfind if it is timestamped as newer than the dot-pet version. Another risk is that an updated app might delete or change the name of one of its files; without uninstallation, the old file will be left behind.

So, feel free to continue with your upgrade of the full installation. And frugal installations, as well (except for the case explained in the edit to my previous message).
Richard
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct 2011, 22:46    Post subject:  

thanks richard,

?so now all I need is to await your pre-installer pet and I can go ahead?

regards
scsijon
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tasmod


Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 1462
Location: North Lincolnshire. UK

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 05:19    Post subject:  

Bought the magazine LinuxUser yesterday here in UK and the cover disk has Puppy 5.2.8 on it Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Surprised when browsing in the store to see Puppy logo on front cover. Decided to buy it.

Good review notes Very Happy

_________________
Rob
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The moment after you press "Post" is the moment you actually see the typso Cool
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Terryphi


Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 763
Location: West Wales, Britain.

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 08:37    Post subject:  

tasmod wrote:
Bought the magazine LinuxUser yesterday here in UK and the cover disk has Puppy 5.2.8 on it Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Surprised when browsing in the store to see Puppy logo on front cover. Decided to buy it.

Good review notes Very Happy


Good stuff. I see that the website advert for this issue has an amusing typo:

DVD packed with 4 distress and much more!

Can't possibly refer to Puppy.

That trial subscription of 3 issues for £1 looks tempting (but read the small print.) Wink

_________________
Classic Opera 12.16 browser SFS package for Precise, Slacko, Racy, Wary, Lucid, Quirky, etc available here Smile
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Volhout


Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 09:21    Post subject: fundamental change
Subject description: what do we publish in the iso
 

Playdays,

I have come to realize this because I own a eeePC, and run Puppeee for over 1 year now .... and Jemimah and the website disappeared.
But I still have her files in an iso, and can rebuild my eeePC without problems.

But that is different for lupu (and more of the modern puppies).
In an approach to shrink the iso, we rely on web install of browser, and flash player. Good aproach to ensure the most recent browser of choice, and flash player.

But what happens if I crash 528 2 years from now (let's asume I still use it) and want to re-install. I search for the CD in a shoe box in the attic, and install. No guarantee however ibiblio still exists. This whole forum may not exist anymore.

I think we should think about including at least 1 major browser (just pick one) in the iso. This ensures that a re-install 2 years from now, will at least enable people use it. (Actually I think that the web support is something that should be included as complete as possible, since you don't know what drives the web 2 years from now. Java ? HTML5 ?)

This is completely different way of thinking, skip iso size, and go for complete. Since 528 seems to be the end of the line for lupu series, you may want to think about packaging one iso that includes the instant updates, but also a browser of choice (if you pick Opera, it has flash included, but any browser is okay).

Just my 5 cents....
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 10:44    Post subject:  

Quote:
But what happens if I crash 528 2 years from now (let's asume I still use it) and want to re-install. I search for the CD in a shoe box in the attic, and install. No guarantee however ibiblio still exists. This whole forum may not exist anymore.

I think we should think about including at least 1 major browser (just pick one) in the iso.

Volhut, Thanks for the ideas. I love to talk theory like this. In Slacko, 01micko is doing exactly what you suggest, and so is Barry in Racy and Wary. Lupu will live and die with the browser choice--that was something we did initially in the very first release of Lupu *not* to save space but to allow people to customize their choice of browser. That was the very first thing 01micko did for lupu, is write the Browser choice program.

I appreciate the suggestion that some people might be using Lupu in 2 years. Even when Slacko and Racy are released I think there might still be reason to use lupu--it is mature and a lot of attention has been payed to usability. I have come to love the right-click menu that don570 and pemasu made. In addition the PupControl that radky made. Things like that--I think Lupu has a lot of them. Someone might consider making a package for Slacko that includes that sort of thing (I am even making some notes myself about how to "Lupufy" Slacko)

If ibiblio is gone, then we are all screwed, but I am committed to maintaining Lupu for at least another year--as long as there is any interest, since it is long Term Support LTS--so even if something catastrophic happened I could use a different server. As long as there is a Puppy web site I think we will be fine. Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lupufy Slacko

If I were to make a pet that would "Lupufy" Slacko, are there suggestions about what could be included? By Lupufy I mean add some of the "convenience/usability" features of Lupu. Already I have thought of

-> the right-click menu, I have really come to depend on it
-> PupControl, awesome
-> roxterm, terminal that works like an editor

Please make suggestions if you have them. I am sure everyone understands that I am a huge fan of Slacko--imho it is going to be the cleanest Puppy ever and because it is close to Woof standard people will be able to build it with Woof with little trouble. The lupufy pet would just be to add an interesting option that some people might like. Thanks.

In fact, what are you doing in this thread? Please go test Slacko Wink
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rerwin


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1541
Location: Maine, USA

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 13:16    Post subject:  

scsijon wrote:
?so now all I need is to await your pre-installer pet and I can go ahead?
Please do not wait. It does not apply to most upgrade situations and never to full installations. Proceed with your upgrade!

Volhout wrote:
But what happens if I crash 528 2 years from now (let's asume I still use it) and want to re-install. I search for the CD in a shoe box in the attic, and install. No guarantee however ibiblio still exists. This whole forum may not exist anymore.
Consider remastering to make a lupu iso file/CD with your browser of choice, as well as all of the instant-update, additional-driver and other packages already installed? It is very easy to do if you start without a pupsave file (pfix=ram), install all of the desired packages, then remaster immediately, using the ramfs (last item in the presented list) for the work area. That also gives you the option of separating the drivers out into a zdrv sfs file, to reduce the size of the main sfs file (useful for 256MB RAM PCs). That is what I would do, and probably will at some point.
Richard
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 17:57    Post subject:  

thanks Richard will do, looks like i'm busy this weekend.

Something to think of Twisted Evil ,

I wonder how you could remaster a full install back into a Puppy CD Laughing Laughing Laughing

regards to all

scsijon
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majorfoo

Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 445
Location: Wish I knew

PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 20:04    Post subject:  

rerwin wrote:


Consider remastering to make a lupu iso file/CD with your browser of choice, as well as all of the instant-update, additional-driver and other packages already installed? It is very easy to do if you start without a pupsave file (pfix=ram), install all of the desired packages, then remaster immediately, using the ramfs (last item in the presented list) for the work area. That also gives you the option of separating the drivers out into a zdrv sfs file, to reduce the size of the main sfs file (useful for 256MB RAM PCs). That is what I would do, and probably will at some point.
Richard


Couple of small suggestions on remaster process

1. When you boot the remastered cd, you are required to go through the personalize settings screens. Could this be eliminated? This was accomplished on original boot.

2. On my remaster, I receive message message that puppy was not shut down properly with option to ignore or continue.

This was addressed in Lucid 525. Prior to remaster, go to etc directory and remove hidden file XLOADED.

Elimination of these two items, would enhance the remaster process.

majorfoo
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Volhout


Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct 2011, 03:15    Post subject: iso
Subject description: remaster
 

PlayDays

I have been testing Slacko 1 month ago since you suggested it before, and it was far from lupu 5 series. I understand that from a developer standpoint Slacko may be cleaner and better, better api's (or whatever you call them) cleaner repositories ? better code compliance ?

I am a linux user, with close to 0 experience programming (I can do assembly language for microcontrollers, but that is where it ends). To me C is a note between B and C# (Music) and bash is what I do to my kids when they are naughty. I have great respect for you, the developers. It is absolutely amazing that a small team of "hardly controlled" enthousiasts can generate a product as good as puppy linux. But I sometimes loose track by the high pace at which the developpers move on or abandon projects (Jemimah, I hope she is OK).

As a user I have settled on Lupu 5 series, like people buy a Mac book and run OS-X. I have no intention to move on, unless it adds something. I am willing to spend time on testing, absolutely ! I love to do that. But I will not change over my 5 PC's until it adds something, and it is stable.

Rerwin: thank you for you suggestion. I will try this (maybe even tonight, when I am ready with the financial analysis spreadsheet on my morgage). Puppy runs my businesses.

Again, to me linux is a tool, like a hammer. It is of no use to me when I have to put the head on every time I want to nail something down. It should simply work. And lupu 5 series does work on my 5 PC's. For me this is the greatest compliment I can give to the developpers. I use it because it works. I do not use Ubuntu, I do not use Mint, I use 525 or 528 depending the PC.

Volhout
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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3789

PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct 2011, 11:26    Post subject:  

Quote:
Again, to me linux is a tool, like a hammer. It is of no use to me when I have to put the head on every time I want to nail something down. It should simply work. And lupu 5 series does work on my 5 PC's

Thank you Volhout, We put a lot of emphasis on "usability." I also think in terms of tools, and what I like is a tool "that feels good in the hand." It is a pleasure to use a well-made tool. We tried to make Lucid like that. Even after Slacko and Racy are released, we will continue to support Lucid. With rerwin's help, we are making a second Instant Update that will be released in a week or so. There will also be an updated Super Multimedia Upgrade. Your discussion with rerwin gave me the idea that after that we might stress remastering--how each person can create their own personal Lucid, with exactly the programs they want. We will also continue to post new pets to keep up with the software that changes often, such as browsers, as well as monitoring questions and comments in the forums. Lucid Puppy is LTS (Long Term Support).
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