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Slacko B3
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4833
Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 02:18    Post_subject:  

Good man, Jim lad!

This massively good distro would be immensely improved if it adopted the browser choice at the outset like Luci, instead of foisting Hobson's Choice upon unsuspecting punters! Might also save some space?
OR: make netsurf/dillo the default gateway to mainline browsers?

The board lies: it claims one editorial change: there were two.

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 03:06    Post_subject:  

playdayz wrote:
Here is Chromium-16 for Slacko. It was made and tested in B2.

http://diddywahdiddy.net/Puppy500/chromium-16.0.881-slacko.pet


Running from sfs, gives the highest Peacekeeper score I have ever seen on my old Acer lappy. Firefox 7 2700, Ch 16 4500.
And I can FINALLY load a local page Smile

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 03:25    Post_subject:  

Don't get too attached to B3, B4 is cooking, with all those libs mostly going to slackware versions. Probably should have been from the start.

Sage, I do agree about having browser choice, just there is I believe also a necessity to have a decent browser on the iso. I am trying to stick to the woof formula too, so when I come up with the answer (which is an sfs auto loaded on the iso, just the implementation part of the answer is lacking), then it will be done! Just too late for this version.

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 03:36    Post_subject:  

Thanks for your consideration, mick. I suppose it all comes down to the definition and use of 'decent'. Perhaps one could argue 'adequate'? Not sure how the guys over at Luci came to their strategy or how they implemented it, but it's nice to see choice pop up at an early stage. Politicians like to talk about choice, but they usually mean their choice! No need to parrot their behaviour?!
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 04:02    Post_subject:  

Sage wrote:
Thanks for your consideration, mick. I suppose it all comes down to the definition and use of 'decent'. Perhaps one could argue 'adequate'? Not sure how the guys over at Luci came to their strategy or how they implemented it, but it's nice to see choice pop up at an early stage. Politicians like to talk about choice, but they usually mean their choice! No need to parrot their behaviour?!


Guess my behavior is not typical then... download the iso, remove included browser, boot up, symlink Seamonkey (latest beta), Firefox (latest beta),symlink Opera, and sfs Chromium. Smile
Maybe there is something wrong with me...............

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peebee


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 1549
Location: Worcestershire, UK

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 04:54    Post_subject: Wifi setup with pns-tool  

Hi Mick

Quote:
*jim3630, peebee (and others) - I know you are Frisbee lovers... sorry I'm not. To be frank I think it's an unfinished project and will not be going in the final. There is however an alternative that has worked for me 5/5, even when SNS has failed. Look in the "Network" menu for "pns-tool" (no, I didn't name it!). Try it. Report success or failure. Frisbee is still available in slickpet/PPM


I am only a "fan" of Frisbee because its the only wifi setup tool that seems to maintain my wifi connection over time ... all others drop out and have to keep being reset.... I also like Frisbee because it seems to work well and quickly when I take my laptop out of the house and want to connect to a public open wifi point.

But I tried the pns-tool script you included in B3

Obviously very unfriendly and asks some questions that I didn't really know the answers to
Did create a wifi connection for me
Seemed to have important messages about copying files after it had run but this was only on the screen for a short time - too short to record what to do
The wifi connection was not persistent through a reboot - but this might be because I didn't copy the files

I'll try to find the script and see if I can read the instructions from within it. - looked - doesn't help too much as the instructions are dynamic but looks like something has to go into /etc and 2 files into /etc/rc.d ????

Cheers
Peter

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7841
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 06:05    Post_subject:  

Hi peebee.

Thanks for testing.

A good result. Don't worry too much about the messages. If it turns out a decent tool I'll automate the copying of files.

Trouble is, networking is a bit of a mess. We have sns which works for some. It's not even an option because it is entrenched in woof. Dougal's tool has been very good in the past, but it is unmaintained. It depends on a functions script called wags_profiles, which is in desperate need of updating. I think that is why it fails for yourself and jim3630. Frisbee was the beginning of a good thing, but I guess due to unforeseen circumstance jemimah has more or less abandoned puppy.

My understanding of networking is next to zero. The big troublemaker seems to be Broadcom. In B4 I intend to do an experiment. I have Frisbee and the massive wl driver in by default, at the expense of gutenprint. This makes printing a pain but hopefully networking easier. I do hope it's worth it!
EDIT: no, I have backflipped on wl, wont be included.

Cheers.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 06:28    Post_subject:  

Quote:
I guess due to unforeseen circumstance jemimah has more or less abandoned puppy.


I have not followed her whereabouts closely but remember her or someone knowing her told us she is totally absorbed at her new regular work. So she has almost no time for Puppeee anymore. But that is old news so could have changed recently.

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Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 771
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 06:51    Post_subject:  

Hi 01micko

I read this on Barry's blog and pemasu's D5X7 post.

I don't know if this is related to what you are doing
or if because the kernels differ it is not related
but thought it may be important - so here is the info.

Broadcom brcm80211 firmware
Thanks to the post by jim3630, this came to my attention:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=71777
And thanks to tempestuous for creating the firmware PET.

The firmware is now in Woof. In Woof, kernel-skeleton/lib/modules/all-firmware/brcm.tar.gz is the firmware tarball. The file kernel-skeleton/etc/modules/firmware.dep specifies that the brcm.tar.gz tarball will load into /lib/firmware when the brcmfmac.ko and brcmsmac.ko modules need it.

A new feature in Woof is script kernel-skeleton/pinstall.sh. This is executed by script 3builddistro and will delete brcm.tar.gz if the modules are not there. This is to save space, as the firmware is rather large.

This will be in the next upload of Woof, so puppies built from that Woof and with the 2.6.39.x+ kernels will support those Broadcom drivers out-of-the-box.


Posted on 18 Sep 2011, 8:08 - Category: Woof
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tempestuous

Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 4571
Location: Australia


PostPosted: Yesterday, at 03:20 Post subject:
jim3630 wrote:
The new brcm80211 worked after installing only the firmware pet. the driver is pre-installed in the kernel.

That's good news.

pemasu, I would now make the bold suggestion that you remove the proprietary broadcom_sta driver driver from the first post, so that all users of modern Broadcom wifi devices will then have only one option - the brcm80211 drivers. I have several reasons:

i) for consistency and to avoid confusion - you don't want users reporting Broadcom wifi errors and getting confused about which driver is actually being used. They might not understand the difference, and inadvertently report wrong information.

ii) the proprietary driver will continue to conflict with the underlying ssb driver, and potentially cause problems with other hardware that depends on the ssb driver - such as USB interfaces.

iii) we should be encouraging the use of opensource drivers, whenever possible.

I suggest you add the brcm-firmware to future releases.

HTH - very best regards - Ray
and many thanks for all your hard work with Slacko - much appreciated.
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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 07:10    Post_subject:  

01micko wrote:
I have Frisbee and the massive wl driver in by default, at the expense of gutenprint. This makes printing a pain but hopefully networking easier. I do hope it's worth it!

Cheers.


Fixing connectivity for a few at the expense of printing for everyone sound like a poor deal. Having to carry a huge networking driver whether it is needed or not sounds like a poor deal.
Surely this is arse backwards?

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7841
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 07:19    Post_subject:  

Thanks for your concern RayMk

What you say makes sense. I'm not sure the firmware can make any difference to this puppy, I'm committed to k2.6.37.6 at the moment, but sure, I can put it in, shouldn't do any harm. I'd rather try that than use one proprietary driver at an expense of over 1% of the iso. I'll still persevere with Frisbee, really I have nothing against Frisbee, it's just been a bit frustrating. I'll leave gutenprint in. Will end up a bloated 123+M iso, but it should be worth it.
There is 4 net tools, none of them perfect, but each has a purpose. Going by reports over the next couple of weeks this could be rationalised.

I have some good news about the devx. B3's devx was a frankenstein.. I overwrote B1's devx with the later libs from B3 and it worked. So far in initial testing B4's devx is working ootb.. miraculous! (possibly those libs referred to earlier today).

Cheers

EDIT: Dave, arse is supposed to backwards! Fixed now anyways Smile

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9373
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 08:15    Post_subject:  

DaveS wrote:
Fixing connectivity for a few at the expense of printing for everyone sound like a poor deal. Having to carry a huge networking driver whether it is needed or not sounds like a poor deal. Surely this is arse backwards?

Here is the argument for making Gutenprint an optional package. Many people now use a printer driver supplied by the manufacturer. I have seen complaints from newcomers about how Puppy only supports a collection of old, obsolete printers and none of the new ones.

The Gutenprint download is only 3 MB.

However, it's the same situation as including a decent default browser. By including Gutenprint, there is always some basic printing functionality out of the box.
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2481
Location: near here

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 08:20    Post_subject:  

If you can get online but not print you can find help for printing online

Being able to print but not get online leads to a dead end

-

Getting online is the crucial part.

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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4798
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 08:36    Post_subject: modeset=0  

With boot parameter "modeset=0", SlackoB3 booted successfully in the AMD Fusion E-350 Radeon HD 6310 (emachines D443). The Xorg log is attached.

I guess this machine's blues are over. Smile

There is, however, an unwritten procedure, that for this machine to work well, some settings have to be set correctly by booting it first in Win7 (that has the correct Fusion drivers). One hint about this possible system mix-up is evident from the name of this machine's BIOS software, "Atom". Wink
Xorg.0.log.gz
Description  Xorg log file from /var/log
gz

 Download 
Filename  Xorg.0.log.gz 
Filesize  9.13 KB 
Downloaded  155 Time(s) 

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7841
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 09:40    Post_subject:  

darkcity wrote:
If you can get online but not print you can find help for printing online

Being able to print but not get online leads to a dead end

-

Getting online is the crucial part.


Actually, getting your machine running how you want is the crucial part. Wink That may include getting online, or simply getting X to start, but consider this. The broadcom issue is mostly concerning newer hardware. Like it or not, most people think that Puppy is for older hardware. We shouldn't disappoint those people too much, many of whom don't have lightning fast connections, and may be using an old bj-20. (probably supported without gutenprint!).

I have been stewing over this issue, best I can do is offer frisbee (if I get it working ok) and the firmware mentioned above. Why should a 2M driver that isn't open source be included? That may please 0.1% of users, whereas printing may well please a lot more if it works ootb.

AFAIK, only Ubuntu, and the pay for Mandriva supports proprietary software, and that's not necessarily out of the box. It may be in some non-free repo that's pre-configured.

jim3630 has never once complained that his driver isn't available. It is. He is also looking for alternatives. That's why we are here. Not to pander to they who think they are almighty, but innovate and get around these issues.

Politics are officially over, I hear enough bullsh*t without inventing it! Laughing

Cheers

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