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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
BIOS time and Puppy time (ANSWERED)
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 06:34    Post subject:  

L18L thanks. Something must have gone bad in your sig this time.
It looked good before you did the latest change

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6449
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 06:37    Post subject:  

(Oh... I was too slow to post Smile )

Quote:
what bad does happen?

I don't think anything very bad happens.

Quote:
Why was it bad to let RTC be Local time?

It is not bad, just not as good.
It means you need to update your clock manually when you move from one timezone to another, or when daylight saving or summer time starts or finishes (if your country has daylight saving or summer time).

Quote:
Then I maybe should go back to local time from UTC due to I have to go into Ms Win some day.

Is that all you do in Windows? How often do you do it? Does the time need to be correct in Windows when you do it?
There might be an option in Windows to not automatically update the clock for daylight saving or summer time. Even if there isn't, you could just set the Windows timezone to a timezone which doesn't have daylight saving or summer time... Wink
Even if you use local time for your bios clock, your clock will end up just as wrong if you dual boot with Windows. You will manually change the clock in Puppy for the correct time when daylight saving or summer time starts or finishes, and then when you boot Windows it will change it again, so the time will be wrong. Like I said, the same problem would occur if you were dual booting two versions of windows. The Windows way is stupid.

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 06:41    Post subject:  

Oh, there is supposed to be a way to make Windows work with a BIOS clock in UTC... but of course it doesn't actually work reliably.
http://weblogs.asp.net/dfindley/archive/2006/06/20/Set-hardware-clock-to-UTC-on-Windows-_2800_or-how-to-make-the-clock-work-on-a-Mac-Book-Pro_2900_.aspx

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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 2525
Location: Moved from Hosla to www.eussenheim.de

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 06:50    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
L18L thanks. Something must have gone bad in your sig this time.
It looked good before you did the latest change

Corrected
thank you Smile
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 06:58    Post subject:  

Thanks for all your effort. I guess I have some early dementia or something. Anyway I am now in Slacko instead of Snow puppy.

I set time but have no idea if it is hardware being forced by software or vice versa. I don't mind to change the clock two times a year. I do that with all the other ones I have,

the important thing is that some software get hickups when files are in the future one hour.

Mercedes that was what you found out was it not?

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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 07:37    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Thanks for all your effort. I guess I have some early dementia or something. Anyway I am now in Slacko instead of Snow puppy.

I set time but have no idea if it is hardware being forced by software or vice versa. I don't mind to change the clock two times a year. I do that with all the other ones I have,

the important thing is that some software get hickups when files are in the future one hour.

Again, I'm guessing that problem occurs when the BIOS is set to localtime, not UTC, but there is a workaround
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=560342#560342

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 10:09    Post subject:  

Ooops sorry me so confused.

Now Finally I have found the text that show that you two agree.

Quote:
disciple : ... we should encourage people to set their BIOS clock to UTC ...

tazmod Rob :
Using GMT/UTC has always caused problems in Puppy, not least because Puppy reverses the notation + to - and vice versa.
It is best to run the locale setting to your location. i.e. Europe/London

I made bold the part that fools me. Something happens there logically in my poor brain.

You two agree but my brain fail to see that in that text Smile

Can somebody point it out.

1. disciple : ... we should encourage people to set their BIOS clock to UTC ...

2. tazmod Rob : Using GMT/UTC has always caused problems in Puppy,

so the conclusion is to do this:

3. tazmod Rob : It is best to run the locale setting to your location. i.e. Europe/London


so if I get it. Them say same but I get misled by reading them to say different things.

what them should say to get even and agreeing is something like this?

1. Set RTC to UTC
2. Set System time to what Puppy use as locale time and don't use RTC as the locale?
So for me in Sweden I have RTC set as UTC but Puppy as Stockholm local time.

3. So this allow them to agree?
The RTC is agreeing with London if one don't do the DST thing but look for GMT/UTC
and Puppy is set to know local time instead but to relate it to RTC at start
but do + or - to correct it to local time?

I have no idea.

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tasmod


Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 1461
Location: North Lincolnshire. UK

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 10:35    Post subject:  

If you set your Hardware Clock to UTC then that's OK it's perfectly fine.

Then just for completeness in Puppy set your Locale (Reboot). Then the tray clock etc will be correct local time and will change with DST.

You NEED a reboot if you set the Locale. This is to make it stick.

BUT be aware that setting the Hardware Clock to UTC without setting the Locale will cause the confusion we started with.

That is also the reason why on first boot of a new install the clock needs setting when the Hardware Clock is set UTC.

It's all about choice and not really any standard or convention.

EXCEPT Windows Laughing Laughing

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 12:37    Post subject:  

I read and read. I guess it will clear up by practice. Sooner or later I notice the time is or are wrong and then I have to do some testing again on how to set things up. As it is now it seems to works regardless of if I am in Lupu, Slacko, Spup, Dpup, Snow, or whatever.

I should test with Slitaz and TinyCore too but I am too lazy just now.

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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
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Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 13:38    Post subject:  

Just to be perfectly clear, I don't fault Barry on any of this. Maybe he got things backward and maybe not. Maybe things have changed. And maybe it was confused by some files he was using to make things right.

But there is only so much time a person can dedicate to something of a fairly trivial nature and I dedicated an enormous amount of time to it. Barry could have put out a new distro in the time I spent.

Moreover, my time was spent making what I called a three clock system, which is an order of magnitude more complex because the the clocks have to work right with the TZ and all work together.

It would be interesting I think if someone went through everything Puppy does with the clocks and the TZ to give us the adjusted time.

~

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Mercedes350se

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 635

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 21:27    Post subject:  

Bruce B wrote:
Just to be perfectly clear, I don't fault Barry on any of this. Maybe he got things backward and maybe not. Maybe things have changed. And maybe it was confused by some files he was using to make things right.

But there is only so much time a person can dedicate to something of a fairly trivial nature and I dedicated an enormous amount of time to it. Barry could have put out a new distro in the time I spent.


Agreed.

When I made my initial post I expected:

(a) Is there a reason that Puppy 3.01 does not automatically adopt BIOS time? The answer is - as detailed by tasmod.

(b) Is it a Linux trait in general? Yes - again as detailed by tasmod.

Having said that it has been great reading and I have learnt a quite a lot about time handling, checking and syncing.

Thank you every one for your contribution.
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postfs1


Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 831

PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2011, 19:46    Post subject:  

postfs1 wrote:
In the "Quirky-Linux-1.40" what i use, the "/var/log/messages" file shows the current time minus 1 hour and the date of next day. This takes place not in the whole file - there are a lines with a correct time and date also. I use the time zone which is called "Greenwich". I own this information a long period of time and never made a search for a problem resolving.


The source of the problem were the actions and the results of actions, which i have been doing.
---------------------->
Quote:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=497443#497443
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=544623#544623

<---------------------

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Editing after question = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

disciple wrote:
Have you mentioned on those pages that they will cause that problem?


Already done.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Last edited by postfs1 on Fri 16 Sep 2011, 20:14; edited 2 times in total
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Sep 2011, 06:37    Post subject:  

Have you mentioned on those pages that they will cause that problem?
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PaulBx1

Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2308
Location: Wyoming, USA

PostPosted: Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:22    Post subject:  

Quote:
But really, we should be encouraging people to set their BIOS clock to UTC, instead of following Microsoft's stupidity.


I dual boot, and I want to move between timezones. Anyway it offends my engineering sensibilities to set the hardware clock to anything but UTC. So I solve the problem by setting it to UTC, telling Puppy that, using the appropriate time zone (US Pacific currently), and leaving it at that. When I boot Windows I never set the time so the hardware clock is not messed with. The displayed time is wrong in Windows, but that is appropriate because everything else is wrong in Windows. Laughing

I don't know what will happen when we go off Daylight Savings Time, but I suspect Windows will mess with my hardware clock, so my clever plan will be foiled and I will have to get back into the bios to reset it. But I also think Daylight Savings Time should go to hell, one of Ben Franklin's worst ideas ever. We will put it up against the wall, come the revolution. Laughing

It's funny how long people put up with inaccurate hardware clocks in computers. How much more expensive would an accurate crystal be? I guess they have to trim costs somewhere...
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 16 Sep 2011, 19:02    Post subject:  

Quote:
I don't know what will happen when we go off Daylight Savings Time, but I suspect Windows will mess with my hardware clock, so my clever plan will be foiled and I will have to get back into the bios to reset it

1) You shouldn't need to go into the bios to reset it.
2) If your Windows clock is wrong anyway, why not set Windows to a timezone which doesn't have daylight saving... in fact, wouldn't it make sense to set it to UTC (I presume this is an option)?
3) You can also try the registry setting http://weblogs.asp.net/dfindley/archive/2006/06/20/Set-hardware-clock-to-UTC-on-Windows-_2800_or-how-to-make-the-clock-work-on-a-Mac-Book-Pro_2900_.aspx

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