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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
BIOS time and Puppy time (ANSWERED)
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 12:48    Post subject:  

In polarpup in var/log/messages I am already 5 september.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 13:33    Post subject:  

disciple wrote:
... If the BIOS clock is in local time, the error message will be generated because at this point the filesystem checker thinks that the BIOS clock is in UTC.

This would be essentially the same problem as https://bugs.gentoo.org/142850?id=142850. One of the guys there was recompiling his kernel twice a year for daylight saving, which doesn't seem very sustainable Wink

But it looks like they have found the workaround for this problem in comment 42.

Since the default is for Puppy to use a BIOS clock set to local time, ...we should be encouraging people to set their BIOS clock to UTC, instead of following Microsoft's stupidity.


I have set my Bios time to UTC now. So I don't have to recompile Gento. Hahah what a core.

So as long as one have Bios to UTC then everything will be okay?

Sounds assuring Smile

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nooby

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 15:47    Post subject:  

Damn I fail to get this. I mean logically but okay I always fail with logic.

Local time here is 22.01 or so I did this some minute ago.
# hwclock --show --utc
Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:59:19 PM CEST -0.585188 seconds
#
UTC is also known as Universal Coordinated Time
Current Time Sunday, 4 September 2011, 20:01:31

that is the true UTC and that was what I told BIOS to set it too.

So this hwclock --show --utc seems to not give true time of the hardware
or the hardware are reset to puppy time when puppy boot up?


What is going on?
Ooops should say that after correcting BIOS then puppy was one hour wrong so I corrected that one and now it show this gross error.

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tasmod


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 16:05    Post subject:  

Beware, hwclock reads the bios time BUT reports in localtime format.


Using GMT has always caused problems in Puppy, not least because Puppy reverses the notation + to - and vice versa.
It is best to run the locale setting to your location. i.e. Europe/London

The problem also shows because the 'clock' in the tray is another app that reads the time and 'plays' with it in script.

I'm not sure about 3.1 but maybe try my app Psync from the forum Additional Software/system section to see if it will run in 3.1.
Set your locale (reboot) and run the app, select a Region nearest to you (probably UK) and the app will do the rest. your time will be synchronised to within millisecs to 'standard' time. It will correct up to a day out !!

If it works it's also worth clicking the Help button for explanation on 'time'.

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nooby

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 16:14    Post subject:  

Rob tasmod what you say now goes 180 degree counter to another member in the thread.

So whom should I trust apart from me maybe misunderstood.

can not you and him talk about it and explain to each other why you come to opposite conclutions?

disciple here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=559988#559988

To go out on internet and get sync time is to have a constant thing going on. It is not something I like at all. Can one set it to do it at boot up and maybe at shut down or something . Not all the time.

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Last edited by nooby on Sun 04 Sep 2011, 16:21; edited 1 time in total
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nooby

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 16:20    Post subject:  

edit went wrong
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MinHundHettePerro


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 16:24    Post subject:  

nooby,

do you have a file /etc/clock?

What's the output of
Code:
# cat /etc/clock
?
I'd wager it's "HWCLOCKTIME=localtime" and not "HWCLOCKTIME=utc".

hth Smile/MHHP

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nooby

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 16:39    Post subject:  

# cat /etc/clock
#Set this to either 'utc' or 'localtime' based on which one your computer's
#hardware clock uses.
HWCLOCKTIME=localtime
#HWCLOCKTIME=utc

#
I do it again
# cat /etc/clock
#Set this to either 'utc' or 'localtime' based on which one your computer's
#hardware clock uses.
HWCLOCKTIME=localtime
#HWCLOCKTIME=utc

It gives both or what?
How can I change.

And what to do about Disciple saying one thing and tazmod Rob something opposite and I fail to get what both talk about Smile

I guess it means you are right but where do I change that one then.

okay personal settings most likely. I take a look

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MinHundHettePerro


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 16:51    Post subject:  

nooby,

either you change
Code:
HWCLOCKTIME=localtime
#HWCLOCKTIME=utc
to
Code:
#HWCLOCKTIME=localtime
HWCLOCKTIME=utc
and restart, or you could see if you have the depicted utility in your menu (it's there in slacko-499.1, think I've seen it in other recent pups).

(You did set your BIOS/HW clock to correct utc-time, but your puppy was not told that your HW-clock now is set to utc instead of localtime.)

hth Smile/MHHP
clock_type.jpg
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clock_type.jpg


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nooby

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 17:13    Post subject:  

Thanks your an Angel but that one ask if the hardware should follow the software or software the hardware.

I had no idea? Que? So I accepted the first and that set the clock to 01.30 instead of 11.30 PM # cat /etc/clock

#Set this to either 'utc' or 'localtime' based on which one your computer's
#hardware clock uses.
HWCLOCKTIME='utc'
#HWCLOCKTIME=utc

And I have clicked on time and changed back to Sunday and 23.32 something

But we still have that conflict between Disciple telling me that UTC is the way to do it
and Rob tazmod that tells me that local time is the way to go.

I have no idea whom to trust?

I have to go to bed soon. Thanks for caring about me

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MinHundHettePerro


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PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep 2011, 17:34    Post subject:  

nooby,

after running "Set hardware-clock type", it seems like you need to set your time again (!), either from within your running puppy, or by venturing into BIOS again...

hth Smile/MHHP

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Bruce B


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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 01:29    Post subject: Re: BIOS time and Puppy time  

Mercedes350se wrote:
Is there a reason that Puppy 3.01 does not automatically adopt BIOS time? Is it a Linux trait in general?

The reason I ask is that, when doing a e2fsck check, I have received a "Superblock write in the future" message. Easy enough to fix, just correct Puppy time.


That's how it does or at least how it did with 3.01

But the clock on the taskbar reads the same as the BIOS clock. In fact the only way Puppy knew the time is the BIOS clock told it. Unless you are using a remote clock, there was no other place for Puppy to get the time.

And no it is not a Linux trait in general.

There are solutions as well as ways to avoid this phenomena but I don't think Puppy employees them.

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disciple

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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 01:38    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Rob tasmod what you say now goes 180 degree counter to another member in the thread.

So whom should I trust apart from me maybe misunderstood.

I think you have misunderstood, because tasmod is saying the same thing as me (except I'm not promoting the Psync solution Wink)

nooby wrote:
Damn I fail to get this. I mean logically but okay I always fail with logic.

Local time here is 22.01 or so I did this some minute ago.
# hwclock --show --utc
Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:59:19 PM CEST -0.585188 seconds
#
UTC is also known as Universal Coordinated Time
Current Time Sunday, 4 September 2011, 20:01:31

that is the true UTC and that was what I told BIOS to set it too.
[b]
So this hwclock --show --utc seems to not give true time of the hardware

Like I said before, `hwclock --show --utc` assumes that the BIOS clock is in UTC and tells you what the local time is. So that output is what I would expect. (N.B. When you posted this, Puppy thought your BIOS clock was in localtime, so `hwclock --show` would have produced the same output as `hwclock --show -localtime`)

nooby wrote:
But we still have that conflict between Disciple telling me that UTC is the way to do it
and Rob tazmod that tells me that local time is the way to go.

I can't see tazmod saying anywhere that you should use local time. You can use either, but if your country has "daylight saving" or "summer time" then it is better to use UTC so you don't need to reset the clock manually (unless you use Windows or Psync or something else which will reset it).

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disciple

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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 01:51    Post subject: Re: BIOS time and Puppy time  

Bruce B wrote:
Mercedes350se wrote:
Is there a reason that Puppy 3.01 does not automatically adopt BIOS time? Is it a Linux trait in general?

The reason I ask is that, when doing a e2fsck check, I have received a "Superblock write in the future" message. Easy enough to fix, just correct Puppy time.


That's how it does or at least how it did with 3.01

But the clock on the taskbar reads the same as the BIOS clock. In fact the only way Puppy knew the time is the BIOS clock told it.

Sure, but the issue is whether Puppy assumes the BIOS clock is set to local time or GMT/UTC. And the default is actually to assume local time, which Mercedes did not seem to realise.
Quote:
There are solutions as well as ways to avoid this phenomena but I don't think Puppy employees them.

Which phenomena do you mean? The assumption that the BIOS clock is in local time? These days Puppy has an option to avoid that, like we've spent half this thread describing.
Or the "Superblock write in the future" message? I think I identified yesterday the fix/workaround that is needed for that.

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Bruce B


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PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 03:21    Post subject:  

Disciple,

Mercedes350se post was about version 3.01, my reply was about the same version.

Something changed? I factored that in. Moreover, I think something should have changed. And if it did, it was well overdue.

As for me, you can give me any Puppy and I can get it working right on two clocks as well as a time server.

How I do it is no longer anyone's business. Not meaning to be hard on you, quite to the contrary.

But frankly, I'd like to see if Puppy really can be syncronized with a time server. Windows can.

Sorry if I sound hard, but on this one I am.

Bruce

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