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Puppy 4 and Opengl?
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Insomniacno1

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu 11 Aug 2011, 02:50    Post_subject:  Puppy 4 and Opengl?  

EDIT: It didn't work with version 5 of puppy, even if it were retro, so i had to switch to 4.2.1. Look further down for info:)

Hi, I have installed Lucid puppy 5.2.5-2.6.30.5(NOTE: 4.3.1 kernel) onto a pc and things seem to be working fine, though I have some troubles getting openGL woking with an ATI Rage 128 Pro 16MB.

I tried installing catalyst 9.3, but it says that no ATI drivers are installed. I tried installing the ATI driver from
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=48019

the xf86-video-ati-6.12.4-i486.pet

But still the Mach 3 and Goggles Sketchup 5 complains that no OpenGL driver is installled.

I tried installing OpenGL.pup but were told that the files already were present, so I chosed not to overwrite.

GLXgears run but as I understand, they will also work with 3D, so its not telling that OpenGL is working.

I tried the hi-res driver from pupget and still the same probleme.

How can I check that OpenGL is working and that I have the correct driver?

And where can I get the correct driver and how to get the OpenGL working?

OpenGL does not seem to be working in wine, maybe because of the videocard probleme. I tried installing the windows version of the ATI driver in wine, but it just hangs and never get any further than to the unzipping of the file. so I unzipped it myself and ran the setup.exe - nothing happened, the icon seem to be clicked but no reaction.

Installing directX 9.5 from Winetricks worked fine and also the 2010 version got installed.

Still the CAD/CNC programs complain that no OpenGL driver is installed.

Puppy's version of HardiNfo repports the ATI card and that its OpenGL compliant and AGP 2.0.

How do I solve these things?

I hope Barry K and other of the "old ones" see this post.

Hope someone can help:)

With kind regards

Jan
PS. I switched to puppy to get CAD and CNC working on that pc because I ran into too many restrictions with Lubuntu, Xubuntu and ubuntu - User had limited rights and could not even mount secondary hdd or floppy without being root - User had no access to serial or LPT port, which is not really good since the CNC machines are attached to LPT or Serial - Root had no password so not possible unless you can figure out how to change root's password - in any other desktop than gnome its not possible to add shortcuts to the desktop, this is bad because some wine installed programs use the shortcuts to run special configs like Mach 3 that uses it for Turnmill and and Mach loader - Ubuntu takes too many resources to install, its not practical for older computers with less than 512Mb ram. it has no longer support for older HW like USB 1.1 PCI cards or older nVidia, ATI or matrox video cards.

These things are really bad, I mean the reason some people download burn and install - or should I say try to - Ubuntu is that it before had support for allmost any HW ever made(why is it not possible to have these drivers on a server and then durring install these are downloaded and installed, they can do it for mp3 and other codecs). This people can forget now, Forget ubuntu if you have older HW - but Puppy comes in where Ubuntu lost it.[/url]

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mikeb


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 8393

PostPosted: Thu 11 Aug 2011, 08:10    Post_subject: rage pro  

You will not get card/opengl support with the newer xorg versions...i think 1.5 was the last. The option is to use Wary or perhaps 4.31. Puppy 4.2 and older definately supports your card.(I have 2 of them Smile ).
For such puppies there is a xorg xorg pet which includes the opengl drivers.

Hope that helps

Mike
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Insomniacno1

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 02:56    Post_subject: Re: rage pro  

mikeb wrote:
You will not get card/opengl support with the newer xorg versions...i think 1.5 was the last. The option is to use Wary or perhaps 4.31. Puppy 4.2 and older definately supports your card.(I have 2 of them Smile ).
For such puppies there is a xorg xorg pet which includes the opengl drivers.

Hope that helps

Mike


Hi Mike, the kernel of this puppy is 4.3.1, so should it not work?

Can you guide me to get it to work?

Is it possible to exchange the present kernel for 4.2.1, I have it on a liveCD?

It's funny I got lucid to get better HW support:))

With kind regards

Jan
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11128
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 08:44    Post_subject:  

You can easily try the 4.2.1 you have on live CD, without changing the Puppy on your HD. Just enter puppy pfix=ram at the pause when the 4.2.1 CD starts to boot. (This requires a minimum of 256 MB of RAM unless your hd has a swap partition on it.) After booting with the pfix=ram option, Puppy 4.2.1 will be running entirely in RAM. You can experiment to see what will work with your hardware, without changing the Puppy installed on your HD. Once you have determined that, then consider replacing the kernel. Smile
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5253
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 10:48    Post_subject:  

There are some drivers here that may work.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=48019

Because you have already installed some ATI drivers it is very important that you remove all of them before trying a new one.
Xorgwizard will only work with one driver installed. If there is more than one ATI driver, it will not be able to figure out which one to use.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3387
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 11:09    Post_subject:  

But one thing you did not state is where the video drivers in question are located and the procedure for removing a driver and replacing it with another.
I know that xorgwizard has the option to blacklist a driver, so would one use that or do it directly?
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Insomniacno1

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri 12 Aug 2011, 12:55    Post_subject:  

bigpup wrote:
There are some drivers here that may work.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=48019

Because you have already installed some ATI drivers it is very important that you remove all of them before trying a new one.
Xorgwizard will only work with one driver installed. If there is more than one ATI driver, it will not be able to figure out which one to use.


Hi bigpup, welcome to:) Unfortunately I already tried those as you can read in the start of the thread, you actually linked to a page that I already had linked to in the start:)

With kind regards

Jan
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5253
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 13 Aug 2011, 01:37    Post_subject:  

Quote:
But one thing you did not state is where the video drivers in question are located and the procedure for removing a driver and replacing it with another.
I know that xorgwizard has the option to blacklist a driver, so would one use that or do it directly?


You remove any driver that you install by running Puppy Package Manager.
Go to the installed packages list or uninstall button and select the driver package.
Install a new driver by downloading it's pet package.
Running Rox-filer file manager
Left clicking on driver package pet to install.

It is the normal process of installing and removing pet packages.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5253
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 13 Aug 2011, 02:04    Post_subject:  

Insomniacno1 wrote:
bigpup wrote:
There are some drivers here that may work.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=48019

Because you have already installed some ATI drivers it is very important that you remove all of them before trying a new one.
Xorgwizard will only work with one driver installed. If there is more than one ATI driver, it will not be able to figure out which one to use.


Hi bigpup, welcome to:) Unfortunately I already tried those as you can read in the start of the thread, you actually linked to a page that I already had linked to in the start:)

With kind regards

Jan

Did you try this driver from that link?
xf86-video-r128-6.8.1-i486.pet

This is a how to for Nvidia video drivers. The basic steps are the same for ATI drivers. Disregard any references to the Nvidia X server setting program.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58810

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Insomniacno1

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat 13 Aug 2011, 03:03    Post_subject:  

r128 was the first one I installed on first boot by terminal Xorg(not inside puppy yet), later I installed this one

1. xf86-video-ati-6.12.4-i486.pet
Supported cards by this driver:
R100/R200 - Radeon 7000 upto Radeon 9250
R300/R400/R500 - Radeon 9500 upto X1950
R600/R700 - HD2300 upto HD4890
It is also a wrapper that calls mach64 and r128 if that's being detected.

But I think its time to do a clean install, I just need some guidiance on what to do after the install:)

I have all downloads and pets on secondary hdd.

Or should I go to another version like Wary5(I still haven't found any info if that will solve the driver probleme, but wary includes openGL according to Barry K). So if someone could cast some light on this then I would know what to use.

Buying a new card is not an option, economical wise.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5253
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 14 Aug 2011, 01:08    Post_subject:  

The drivers that are available for that old a video card are designed to work with core Linux programs that are 3 or 4 versions below the ones that are in the latest Puppies.
It is ATI causing this by not updating the drivers to work with newer versions of Linux. Their thinking is support has to stop sometime for older video cards and that rage 128 is real old in their thinking.

Any Puppy 4 series version should be able to work with them.
Puppy 4.3.1 is a good starting point.
If you try Puppy 4.3.1 also install, from it's Puppy Package Manager, the Xorg full dri package.
Wary may work also.

The only one who can tell you for sure is someone that has that video card in use now.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Insomniacno1

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon 15 Aug 2011, 03:22    Post_subject:  

Yeah unfortunately it would seem that none of the experts here has that card or has tested it.

I switched to 4.2.1 yesterday and it took me all day to get opengl to work, had to reinstall puppy several times. But finally I realized that the message "xfree86-DRI not found" really meant the DRI was not installed, and i couldn't figure this out since I had installed ATI-DRI.pup, r128-DRI, 3DCC which installed everything, DRI-kernelmodules, and everything else I could find with DRI and OpenGL just to make sure all dependecies were there.

Still got the message, so I looked in PetGet(Puppy package manager) and saw Xorg_xorg- full-DRI-7.3.1. After installing that and rebooting, I could run GLXinfo and GLxgears from the glxtools I had downloaded(PPM is really limited for 4.2.1 and you have to get most things from either Dotpup, or pet packages 3,4 or 5) or search with puppy search.

Ok the framerate were 3000 - 4000 frames in 5 seconds, thats pretty good compared to the Glxgears I ran from lucid retro where it were 560 - 570 in 6 seconfds(funny I could run that since openGL were not working).

Watching streamin video is still slow, and I can't disable HW acceleration in Flash player.

One big warning to people here who wants to try puppy 4.2.1 to get the ATI Rage 128 pro to work, when you install something from other place than PPM you will most likely run into missing dependencies. Write down what is missing, then open google and typr it in. Now RPMbone or other should show up with some rpm files that contains the files - get the ones for fedora or red hat and only the ones wit i386, i486 or i586(xarchiver has a problem with i686) and not the _64.

Download the files and open them by clicking on them, extract the file you need and copy it to /usr/lib.

If there were more on the list than you could see, then open Install from the desktop and check dependencies for that program you have installed, since you just solved some of the missing files there will be less missing now. Continue this untill there are no more missing.

Its a pain in the b..t and take very long time, but its the only way I have found to solve this.

I have been looking for a way to upgrade PPM or change the repositories, but as far as I can see its not possible.
Experts please kick in here, if there are a way:)

I have not tried 4.3.1, I went with the 4.2.1 to get an old Xorg that would support the card, as suggested earlier by Mike.

I have read most of Kirks 76 post, from page 1 to the last, and figured out what was relevant for me. Unfortunately even the experts have a nasty habbit of not checking their links after they have posted something and many are obsolete now.

Even many of MU's links are obsolete now, So i would suggest here that If you post something then maintain your post and make sure your links work so when someone come looking for answers and you have linked to it instead of explaining it then the link work!

You can forget to use this one http://www.puppylinux.ca/tpp/ttuuxxx/Libs/ it has not worked for a couple of years now and ttuuxxx didn't respond when I PM him.

Also to the people who want to use older version better get most of the needed libs

http://packages.ubuntu.com/en/lucid/libs/

http://www.smokey01.com/ttuuxxx/other/LIBS/libs-with-links.tar

Should you run into some not there then use google and RPMbone.

I will change the threads name to: Puppy 4 and OpenGL?

Jan
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