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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3400
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 01:22    Post subject:  

Here's what happens now during boot:

1. Chose "Copy to RAM".
2. Verbose, large text, completes.
3. Change to small text, 1/2 screen of this.
4.Colored display of "Pussy Operating System".
5. meow login:, 11 lines, all about eth0.
6. Flashing underscore.
7. Typed startx <Enter>.
8. password: pussy <Enter>.
9. "Login incorrect" reported.
10. meow login: root <Enter>.
.......password: pussy <Enter>.
11. Root@meow:~# startx <Enter>.
12. Taken to desktop. Very Happy
13. Click "ROX-filer background". [Icons appear]
14. Click "Network" icon. [Icon appears at bottom right]
15. Click on this icon brings up "WICD Network Manager" window.
16. "Connected to wired network" is displayed at bottom of the window.
17. Click "WWW" icon and window appears displaying 4 files in their folder.
18. Click install-browser.sh and nothing happens.
19. Navigated to file seamonkey.bin and click it but nothing happens.
20. Clicked xterm icon and entered seamonkey command, but nothing happened, except "Command not found".
21. Clicked shutdown, and it was VERY RAPID.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(a) No more BLACK SCREENS. Smile [Having moved the 1.0GB live-rw file to the root folder of a partition on an internal HDD]
(b) Seems to be working OK, but I don't know how to run program files [see 18 & 19 above].
(c) How do I get a web-browser to run?
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 01:48    Post subject:  

One of the icons in the browser folder says 'clean' click that one and seamonkey will start.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 03:13    Post subject: Sylvander  

Sylvander wrote:
Here's what happens now during boot:

1. Chose "Copy to RAM".
2. Verbose, large text, completes.
3. Change to small text, 1/2 screen of this.
4.Colored display of "Pussy Operating System".
5. meow login:, 11 lines, all about eth0.
6. Flashing underscore.
7. Typed startx <Enter>.
8. password: pussy <Enter>.
9. "Login incorrect" reported.
10. meow login: root <Enter>.
.......password: pussy <Enter>.
11. Root@meow:~# startx <Enter>.
12. Taken to desktop. Very Happy
13. Click "ROX-filer background". [Icons appear]
14. Click "Network" icon. [Icon appears at bottom right]
15. Click on this icon brings up "WICD Network Manager" window.
16. "Connected to wired network" is displayed at bottom of the window.
17. Click "WWW" icon and window appears displaying 4 files in their folder.
18. Click install-browser.sh and nothing happens.
19. Navigated to file seamonkey.bin and click it but nothing happens.
20. Clicked xterm icon and entered seamonkey command, but nothing happened, except "Command not found".
21. Clicked shutdown, and it was VERY RAPID.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(a) No more BLACK SCREENS. Smile [Having moved the 1.0GB live-rw file to the root folder of a partition on an internal HDD]
(b) Seems to be working OK, but I don't know how to run program files [see 18 & 19 above].
(c) How do I get a web-browser to run?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Sylvander
oh goodie we starting to get places. Now i understand the issue with the login prompt, as it does this on my desktop, what is happening is that immediately afterit boots before you get to login, theauto networking thing is already trying to connect your eth0 wired network and its spamming if it can connect or if it cant, if it can get a ip etc etc and this spam is messing with the login text as its spitting out the info about your network whereyour meant to be typing. When this happends to me i just type root then pussy as the password. Even tho the login text is kinda overwritten, still this is all you need to do.

Some users may find that editing the /live/live.cfg file and editing the boot options by removing the "noautologin" then it will boot without having to login and you will be logged in with userlevel privs. The normal user username is: user and the password is: live its the default debian-live user login, also when you login via this way you can just use "sudo -i" to get root as the user is a member of the sudoers and this will promote you to root. Maybe the traumatic login process can be circumvented this way, but if your using a live cdrom then you will need to edit the iso and reburn.

Ill have to research the exact methods used by the auto network config thing to see if i can prevent this happening. What I have kept in Pussy is the default behaviour of the terminal/ console when you attach or disconnect a device, it give you a verbose text output and also the /dev/sdc type names of any newly detected media etc or when you loose your network connection or it comes back etc.

Your Seamonkey/ browser problem:
Pussy has cleanmode, install, start and uninstall options, here is what these options do:

Cleanmode: When the user clicks this a fresh browser is unzipped from the browser.zip into a new dir (you should actually see a new seamonkey dir being created) then the browser is executed and should appear on your screen. When you close down the browser, Pussy will remove the seamonkey dir and the /root/.mozilla/ dir and other things and there should be no trace whatsoever of your browseing. The purpose of this is so your Pussy doesnt get clogged with a 100mb of internet files every day and also privacy for banking etc. The browser.zip file you see when you select www or www-browser can be edited to enter any preferences etc you want as standard, another way is to use the install browser script to install seamonkey then you can setup seamonkey however you like then delete browser.zip then run this command via right clicking in the browser window and selecting terminal here then try this: zip -9 -r browser.zip seamonkey
this will create a new browser.zip that contains your new preferences that will be used as a template for browser install or cleanmode.

Install: Installs seamonkey via unzipping it from the browse.zip file, it creates a seamonkey dir with seamonkey in it.

Start browser: if the browser isnt installed this script looks like a broken link with a "!" symbol on it and wont work. You need to select install browser and seamonkey will be unzipped and then the start browser script will change color and will work when you click on it and seamonkey should start.

Remove browser: this removes the seamonkey dir and its contents as well as any ohter trace it may have left on your computer (except your downloads)

I know this is overly complicated for a new user using Pussy for the first time but the cleanmode browsing thing is another tech that im demoing with Pussy.

If you have a working save file and you have no need of cleanmode browsing you can just use the install browser function and keep it installed then start it with the start browser script. The browsing stuff is in the /www dir and you can setup your own link on your desktop to the start browser script if you like.

the reason its all jumbled in the one /www dir is so dev people can like see how it all works with all the scripts for it in one place. You will find that the icons for cleanmode, install, start, remove are all actually scripts and you can open them with a text editor and see the underlying functionality as the scripts are quite clear and will probably make more sense to you than my constant dribbling lol.

Pussys shutdown is faster than anyother OS's shutdown as it simply disconeects from the save file and switches off, rather than doing through a million shutdown routines that make no difference on a live system.
Believe it or not i can actually tweak it to be even faster lol

You will get better performance from a USB Pussy than a live cdrom and its best used without the copy to ram when your using the USB one, im personally running the usb image of Pussy that has been imaged to my HDD.

hope this helps and thanks for trying out Pussy and thanks for your patience
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 03:26    Post subject:  

CLAM01 wrote:
sickgut,

I didn't try a usb install/run, only a live-cd and frugal. I wasn't able to make either work usably. I don't full install puppies, ever, for not seeing the point. Puppies make a virtual ramdisk from the main sfs image each frugal start up. That is the primary puppy security component, more responsible than anything else for puppy's security.

So, of course, I didn't try to install pussy to HD, either. I just imagined that would be the drill, as with pclinux (which I admit I have also never full-installed). I assumed pussy was for full install because it didn't run frugal for me and was demonstrator-like live-cd (like full install linuxes, whose live-cds run like puppy runs on a P 120 or 133 hardware with 32 to 48 mb ram and a 128 mb swap on an old and slow HD, where the puppy has to build its apps in the swap, transferring parts and libs from the CD).

Your pussy does look like a good learning project. It sounds like you've built pretty much from scratch.


Pussy works in the same way as puppy in respect to frugal, almost identical when you run a USB image and use the compressed save-file option in the catroll-panel. When Pussy loads it layers the .sfs (or squashfs) files like you where saying in RAM, if you select the copy to ram boot function, otherwise it does the same layering but runs everything from the live media still + the /live/cow (copy on write, a RAM drive) contains all your writes/ changes in RAM, unless you are running a noncompressed save file as this is autoupdated and its not kept in RAM, if your using a compressed save file then this is kept in RAM but is backed up to a savefile.squashfs that is compressed when you select that option from the Catroll-Panel. The main way when running a cdrom live version is it writes and reads directly to a file containing a filesystem so it has the same advantages as frugal without the wait while shutting down, while autowriting directly to the save file in realtime thus giving you the advantages of a full install in this was too.

At them moment the only HDD ive worked out for pussy is using "dd" to image the USB .img image to the HDD it works fine and both with compressed and noncompressed save files (even at the same time, backing up a noncompressed to the compressed occasionally then removing the contents of the noncompressed save file so this is in effect a continual remaster of the live system as the savefile.squashfs file is treated like the other live media sfs's that get loaded and layered at boot.)

hope this sheds some more light
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 04:03    Post subject:  

Sylvander wrote:


(a) No more BLACK SCREENS. Smile [Having moved the 1.0GB live-rw file to the root folder of a partition on an internal HDD]
(b) Seems to be working OK, but I don't know how to run program files [see 18 & 19 above].
(c) How do I get a web-browser to run?


hi Sylvander and everyone else
also with Pussy you dont have to feel trapped/ tied down to the exiting apps, you can just delete the /www dir and apt-get update then apt-get install iceweasel or iceape (debians version of firefox or seamonkey) and then your done

in this alpha stage, it probably pays to go to the catroll-panel, select menus then click backup menus
This ensures you have a backup of the custom jwm start menu and apps etc. If when debian installs a new browser it may or may not (depending on the app your installing)update the menus but also may revert them to default, just incase this happends you can always use the restore menus function to bring back the custom menus. There is a click able script there too that opens the jwm menu config in nano and lets you edit and save it

this backup or restore menus thing and the catroll-panel can be accessed via the terminal/ console via /scripts/control-panel/
Altho most scripts use the xmessage program to give you messages in the X session, the scripts will still work from the commandline. Basicly all the controll panel and the /www folder icons are all just scripts, and all these are editable by the user. Its a techy guys dream setup, but a bit daunting for the newbies.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 07:37    Post subject:  

sickgut as I read you to say is that you want to get help to make a puppy that work as to the intention of how pussy works now.?????

I guess those that are into Debian repo for Puppy. Those that have already started to make Dpup and so on. Them would get interested.

Maybe you have to get to know them personally and exchange views with them. Maybe them fail to find this thread due to the title.

Pussy Linux is finally released *full version*

There is nothing n that title indicating that it is related to Debian repo and a wish to make a puppy that works with same thinking you have there.

Maybe if you get active in their threads and friendly hint when them have got to know you better that you have a project that is similar?

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 08:30    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
sickgut as I read you to say is that you want to get help to make a puppy that work as to the intention of how pussy works now.?????

I guess those that are into Debian repo for Puppy. Those that have already started to make Dpup and so on. Them would get interested.

Maybe you have to get to know them personally and exchange views with them. Maybe them fail to find this thread due to the title.

Pussy Linux is finally released *full version*

There is nothing n that title indicating that it is related to Debian repo and a wish to make a puppy that works with same thinking you have there.

Maybe if you get active in their threads and friendly hint when them have got to know you better that you have a project that is similar?

--------
Update: i have changed the subject heading of the thread to better reflect Pussies intentions.
--------

hi nooby
yeah there has been some confusion as to the name of the last release, it is the full version in the fact that it has all the apps included this time, in this way it is a full version and also it is the final alpha release. The next release will be the beta release, i think ill change the thread topic to reflect this more, thanks for your input nooby

Maybe i should just have a link to my site on this forum and all the info on my site, and advertise here asking for help to turn this debian base into a puppy with the goal of the project being to build puppy ontop a base that already looks after the package manager in an excellent way
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 09:16    Post subject:  

Yes I think that was a good way to express your intentions.

And maybe also that you have text on your site that you ahve control over and here it can easily derail into this works and that does not work.

Your main interest here is to get info on how to make a puppy that is in line with your intention with Pussy.

If any Mod complain about chaning title then tell them I was the one responsible for it. I stand up for that it was a good thing to do. Hope that get accepted.

We ahve teased you a lot about the name so that does not happen on your home page which you can edit your self.

But I think what would work best is that you get to know those interested in Debian here and naturally exchange views on how to make a perfect package manager using Debian repo and that you have your Pussy as one way of doing it and that you want help to make a puppy using same thinking. As long as you don't push too hard on it them most likely get interested. But nothing such can be warrant but why would them not get happy to share. Try it out.

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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 11:18    Post subject:  

All right since no one else is brave enough to ask, i'll do it. So is your method going to get us an ARMed pussy-puppy where woof has failed?
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Lookinglass360

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 79
Location: Largo, Florida USA

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 12:05    Post subject: Pussy
Subject description: D-pups-meow
 

Hi sickgut

Hope you are successful in your attempt to attract other devs
and that pussy is assimilated in to the puppy kennel!

It is clear you have put a lot of time and effort into it.
That could make it. ‘D-pups-meow’.

Thanks for your detailed explanations although as a newbie
I cant be of much help.

l am following pussy because I tend to learn more by seeing how others
solve issues, then compare the differences, fixes and changes
to gain a better understanding.

While a cake out of the box is good, the clues of how to make it
are soon gone!

Sylvander has detailed most of what I ran in to while I’v been
looking around. Thanks! Sylvander.

Know matter how it goes I’ll keep an eye on it.

May it become the magic carpet you have envisioned!

When it is done I would certainly like to take it for a test flight!

Thanks for the preview!

Happy Trails!
To All!
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turf

Joined: 21 Mar 2011
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 12:13    Post subject:  

can this be installed frugally?
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 13:17    Post subject:  

turf wrote:
can this be installed frugally?


Frugal live cdrom way: on the Pussy website there is an example save file you can download that is 1GB in size but is zipped to only 1 MB. Download this file then unzip it on to a hdd or other media on your computer and the next time you run the live cdrom it will read and write to the save file in real time. This is a frugal method. Make sure that when you put the unzipped save file onto the drive you want that it is placed in the main dir of the hdd or "/" dir of the hdd as some people call it, Pussy cant find it on bootup if its in a folder/ dir on the hdd. Also you can create a partition on any drive attached to your computer and if you label the drive with the name: "live-rw" then Pussy will use the partition instead of a save file. This way uses a non compressed save file that is continually updated in real time.

The live USB stick way: same as the live cdrom way but you can also use the option listed under the "Catroll-Panel" as save-file and this creates a compressed squashfs save file. However the USB image only has less than 200mb spare space on it so you might like to use gparted or a similar program to resize the partition to something larger, as Pussy will only load the compressed save file if i ts in the /live dir of the live media. You can use the normal save file/ partition method and the compressed save file method at the same time so when you choose to save to the compressed file it copies the contents from the non compressed save file as well and then you can delete all the files in the noncompressed save file and what this achieves is basicly a remaster of the live system as all your saved stuff is now treated the same as the squashfs files that are overlayed on the "/" main dir of your filesystem at boot.

This isnt the same way Puppy does things but it achieves the same thing and the comp ressed method is better. Sorry for long explanation as I thought you would want to know how to setup frugal after you got the yes answer to your question.

For more info on how the save files work and also how to make them yourself have a look at the release notes at http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 13:24    Post subject:  

aarf wrote:
All right since no one else is brave enough to ask, i'll do it. So is your method going to get us an ARMed pussy-puppy where woof has failed?


the debian live system isnt available in the ARM format but i have 2 ARM devices im messing with and the next step after making pussy is to make something similar for ARM touchscreen tablet devices. I have gotten debian to work on them but not the live version and i havent been able to get the touchscreens working yet

Last edited by sickgut on Sat 09 Jul 2011, 04:36; edited 1 time in total
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3183
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 18:48    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Pussy Report:
Burned to multi-session DVD..
Boot 1 from DVD.... Fail...
Seemed to be Multi-session related..
If I had to guess via the Error msgs,
Id say it it was trying to convert the ISO FS...
When it got to 30%, I thought, I hope SR0 is the DVD..
Got scared, as my Hdd has a years worth of development on it..
C/A/D to reboot...
Chose "Failsafe" I think.. something like that.. Embarassed
Anyhow, booted up to a desktop, sans icons or BG...
Chose "Rox BG" from menu, got a nice gradiant BG....

OK..
So are the programs decompressed OTF...
If so, very nice... Very fast...
Everything came up fine...
It was not ROOT..I hate to sudo anything..LOL..
Have to D/L a Debian ndiswrapper module as my rt2860/5390 is a pita...
Will play more with it tomorrow, however..
Beyond doubt, this identified my hardware better than anything ever, except, and on par with, Knoppix....
Alsa was even dead on correct OOTB with my HDA Intel audio, which even Puppy misses... Same with Video, Input devices, trackpad, hotkeys, everything..
All in all, initial response would be...
If this is what Debian Pup`s can be..........
Meow.... Cool

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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 19:12    Post subject:  

Re: arm
Sounds good to me. What are your arm devices?

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