How to do a FULL install of Puppy, to an empty HDD (2010)

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Sky Aisling
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#201 Post by Sky Aisling »

Thank you, CatDude.

I believe you have just enlightened me about Full and Frugal installation with your suggestion.

I realize that my initial question asked how to do a Full install given the conditions of the machine and .iso source I described.
However, it appears in reading your suggestion that a Frugal install is done first on Sda2.
Apparently, Step 3 plus the menu.lst adjustment is basically what it takes to create a Frugal install?
If so, then why would I need to continue to make a Full install on Sda1?

The goal is to get a solid, working Puppy onto the machine.*
I'm not prejudicial as to whether the format is Full or Frugal.

The reason why I choose the Full install is because your tutorial is so easy to follow and it gets a working Puppy on a machine fairly easily.
If I could have found a Frugal tutorial as clear as your Full tutorial I may have used that.
I am accustomed to using GUI screens rather than console entries. (although I like console entries if I know the commands)

I've read Sit-Heal-Speak's Puppy Wiki:
http://pupweb.org/wikka/FrugalvsFullinstall
I've read Shinobar's comments on Full and Frugal installs:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=62476
RJBrewer suggests using Full install for low RAM machines and references your tutorial:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=62583


Thank you...the light slowly seeps into my Swiss cheese brain.


One detail question: it appears that Lupu-520 can use GRUB, GRUB2, GRUB4Dos?
RJBrewer mentioned that Lupu-520 doesn't have GRUB included in the .iso as other .iso do. (sorry, can't find that reference).
I'm finding 520 to be an excellent Puppy to use even on the old machines. 520 is my current preference. However, I'll use 431 if that is what works easiest in this situation.


*Note: most of these machines I *rescue* are in their *sunset years* and are given to non-tech people who simply want a working OS. The user isn't interested in any tech options. They just want to get their email, explore the web a bit and swap family pictures. The machine may last a few years longer before being tossed into the e-dustbin of recycled electronics. Hopefully, this effort helps a bit with issues of e-waste and provides perfectly good low cost machines with an excellent OS to those who need a simple, low-cost communications solution.

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rjbrewer
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#202 Post by rjbrewer »

Sky Aisling wrote:Thank you, CatDude

One detail question: it appears that Lupu-520 can use GRUB, GRUB2, GRUB4Dos?
RJBrewer mentioned that Lupu-520 doesn't have GRUB included in the .iso as other .iso do. (sorry, can't find that reference).
I'm finding 520 to be an excellent Puppy to use even on the old machines. 520 is my current preference. However, I'll use 431 if that is what works easiest in this situation.
I said that the newest Puppies (newer than 4.31) do not include the
grub install as part of the universal install procedure.
Grub is installed from grub in the menu.
Of course it's included in the iso.

When installing grub it's necessary to enter the right lines in
/boot/grub/menu.lst when doing a frugal install.
A simple menu.lst entry is made automatically when doing a full
install.

When using older machines it's good to compare frugal and full
installs to see which works best.

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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Sky Aisling
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#203 Post by Sky Aisling »

rjbrewer writes:
When using older machines it's good to compare frugal and full
installs to see which works best.
You are so good, rjbrewer.

So, CatDude gives the option of having the same OS present as a Frugal Install and a Full Install on the same machine. I didn't realize that could be done.

Assuming that I successfully follow CatDude's suggestion and get the two forms of install loaded into the machine, you then suggest that it's good to compare the two installs, (Frugal and Full).

What am I looking for in the comparison? Do I just play with the installations and *feel* which is faster in bringing up apps, surfing the web? or, heaven forbid, I must learn some tech tools for doing tech comparisons? Sky is looking squinty and sideways at the screen right now.


I'm assuming that I will be presented with a choice of which installation to use at boot up?

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rjbrewer
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#204 Post by rjbrewer »

Yes; just play around with them.

The boot screen will give you the list of which to boot.

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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CatDude
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#205 Post by CatDude »

Hi
Sky Aisling wrote:However, it appears in reading your suggestion that a Frugal install is done first on Sda2.
Correct
Sky Aisling wrote:Apparently, Step 3 plus the menu.lst adjustment is basically what it takes to create a Frugal install?
Correct again
Sky Aisling wrote:If so, then why would I need to continue to make a Full install on Sda1?
No reason why you should,
i simply explained a method of how you COULD do so if you do not have a useable CD.
Plus i got the impression that a FULL install was what you where trying to achieve.

As rjbrewer said:
rjbrewer wrote:When using older machines it's good to compare frugal and full
installs to see which works best.
so with the method i described you can do just that.

CatDude
.
[img]http://www.smokey01.com/CatDude/.temp/sigs/acer-futile.gif[/img]

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Sky Aisling
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#206 Post by Sky Aisling »

CatDude, rjbrewer,

Thank You...I'll start tinkering with your suggestions over the weekend...I'll post results in a few days.

Question: Is it my imagination or has the image quality of our avatars decreased in the last week? Maybe it's my system but CatDude's beautiful blinking cat avatar seems pixelated as does rjbrewer's froggy.

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Sky Aisling
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#207 Post by Sky Aisling »

Here is today's status of the Full/Frugal Install as listed above using CatDude's easy-to-follow suggestion. Thank you, CatDude.

CatDude wrote:
7. Select to boot the FRUGAL install on /dev/sda2
Then: Error message 15.
There was one deviation from CatDude's example.
After configuring GRUB, a choice box said:
Puppy users: If running grubconfig from Universal Installer, leave the box empty, just click OK button. Usually GRUB is installed to the MBR of the primary hard drive, in your case '/dev/sda'. If you have more than one hard drive, and want GRUB installed to the MBR of another hard drive, put the device below or leave the box blank for '/dev/sda.
I sweated this decision. I chose to leave blank as sda2 did not have boot flag. ?


Listed below are screenshots of:
Gparted set up
Copy of files: initrd.gz lupu_520.sfs vmlinuz
Grubconfig message
Menulist adjustments - sorry, can't find menu list adjustment screenshot.I triple checked the change to the menu list, but...I could have messed up there. Is there a way to see the menu list from this blue grub screen that I am currently stuck at?

The blue grub screen lists these choices:

Linux (on /dev/sda1)
Linux (on /dev/sda2)
Linux (on /dev/sda5)
Windows (on /dev/sdb1) This is confusing to me. That's my flash drive.
Flash drive must have FAT32 format? No windows on anything of mine.

Install GRUB to floppy disk (on /dev/fd0)
Install GRUB to Linux partition (on /dev/sda1)
For help press 'c', then type: 'help'
For usage examples, type: 'cat /boot/grub/usage.txt'

Also, I note several references to *error 15* in forum.
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Sky Aisling
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#208 Post by Sky Aisling »

PS - I'm perfectly happy with any type of install on the machine, frugal or full. The goal is to get a working Puppy onto the machine.

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rjbrewer
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#209 Post by rjbrewer »

Sky Aisling wrote:PS - I'm perfectly happy with any type of install on the machine, frugal or full. The goal is to get a working Puppy onto the machine.
The grub config window should have /dev/sda1.

Won't do you much good though; gparted shows you have nothing
installed on sda1 or sda2.

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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Sky Aisling
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#210 Post by Sky Aisling »

rjbrewer wrote:
Won't do you much good though; gparted shows you have nothing
installed on sda1 or sda2.
So, when I did step 3
3. Mount /dev/sda2
and create a directory called: lupu520
Copy these files from the lupu-520.iso

initrd.gz
lupu_520.sfs
vmlinuz

and put them into /dev/sda2/lupu520

Unmount /dev/sda2
edited -
So Step 3 didn't install lupu-520 on sda2? in combo with the *menu.lst* change?
Perhaps the change to *menu.lst* didn't *save*? Perhaps I should start over and when I do the *menu.lst* change save an old copy with a different name before saving the altered *menu.lst* ?

What will do me some good?
Last edited by Sky Aisling on Sun 03 Jul 2011, 23:53, edited 1 time in total.

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rjbrewer
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#211 Post by rjbrewer »

Ahh, I see. Trying the frugal on sda2 first.

It shoud be /dev/sda2 in the grub config window.

Use legacy grub; might make that windows partition nonsense
go away.

edit:

You would need sda2 flagged as boot in gparted.

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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Sky Aisling
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Location: Port Townsend, WA. USA

#212 Post by Sky Aisling »

I don't mind going back and starting from scratch.
My concern is that I will ruin something by inappropriately leaving this screen (like cold cutting the machine). I don't know how to leave the screen.

Will I be able to boot the Live CD again? (In order to try again).

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rjbrewer
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#213 Post by rjbrewer »

Sky Aisling wrote:I don't mind going back and starting from scratch.
My concern is that I will ruin something by inappropriately leaving this screen (like cold cutting the machine). I don't know how to leave the screen.

Will I be able to boot the Live CD again? (In order to try again).
Booting the live cd is starting fresh;
should be able to do it a few thousand times if you don't scratch
the cd.

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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Sky Aisling
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Location: Port Townsend, WA. USA

#214 Post by Sky Aisling »

So, how do I click out of the blue grub window?

edit - I'm writing this post from a different machine than the one I'm trying to install Puppy to.

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rjbrewer
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#215 Post by rjbrewer »

Push and hold the power button till the machine turns off.

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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Sky Aisling
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#216 Post by Sky Aisling »

Yes, that's what I need to know. Thank you.

I'm assuming there will be some sort of partition structure and boot registry there to boot a Live CD again? I haven't lost it by cold cutting the machine.

I'm hoping that the GParted work that I did will still be in effect.
If true,
I'll then use *GParted* to add a boot flag to sda1.
I'll redo CatDude's Step 5 and edit the *menu.lst* again making sure I *rename* the old list (just in case) and *save* the new edited list.
If not,
then I'll just start from scratch again. Can't Dance, too wet to plow.

(I have a feeling that when I took the *blank* option on the box *Grubconfig: Hard Drive MBR* that the menu.lst reverted back to a default list.)

Thanks rjbrewer.

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CatDude
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#217 Post by CatDude »

Hello Sky

I am a little confused by your screenshot screenshot_GRUB1.png
That dialogue box looks different to the one i get in Puppy-431 retro
(see sequence of screenshots below)
  • NOTE:
    In image grub-3.png
    i eventually entered /dev/hda8 (after i took the screenshot )
    as you can see in images grub-5.png and grub-7.png

    This is where i told you to put /dev/sda1 (in step 4)
    as i assumed you to be using the normal version of Puppy-431 with the newer kernel.

Also, why is sda1 mounted in your screenshot ?
I don't think it should be.

I also see that sdb1 mounted
i am assuming that is your flash drive, from which you copied the files in step 3.
CatDude wrote:3. Mount /dev/sda2
and create a directory called: lupu520
Copy these files from the lupu-520.iso
  • initrd.gz
    lupu_520.sfs
    vmlinuz
and put them into /dev/sda2/lupu520

Unmount /dev/sda2
After doing that, unmount & remove your flash drive as well.

Then run the GRUB Installer


CatDude
.
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Sky Aisling
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#218 Post by Sky Aisling »

Good Morning CatDude,

I know we are in different time zones, so, I'm dropping this quick reply to let you know I'm reading your question in detail and will reply further as I study your words today.

The *screenshot_GRUB1.png* is a box that appeared in sequence where you saw *grub-7.png*. Instead of the box you saw, *grub-7.png*, I saw *screenshot_GRUB1.png* then a closure of the procedure after I chose a blank response.

Yes, sdb1 is the flash drive which contains the lupu-520.iso and associated files, initrd.gz,
lupu_520.sfs, vmlinuz. The lupu-520.iso and associated files are resident on the flash drive.

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Sky Aisling
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#219 Post by Sky Aisling »

[Situation Solved]
Successful Install :)

My error was in not *saving* the changed *menu.lst* when using the *Geany* text editor provided during the *Grub bootloader configuration*.

Note to readers just stepping into this thread: please read the special circumstances of the disc used to create this install. See my post of Thu 30 Jun 2011, 02:56
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 18556fece4

After I recouped from the error 15 page:

I followed exactly CatDude's suggestion on page:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... start=195.
(I did not need to repeat Step 2 or Step 3 as they had stayed in place even after a 'cold cut' of the machine.)

FYI - Here is the machine and Puppy OS configuration:
Machine:
Fujitsu Lifebook Pseries 256 RAM, 20 GIGS HDD, transmeta(tm) Crueso(tm) Processor TM5800 (painfully slow)
Puppy OS:
lupu-520

Thank you CatDude, once again. You are the best.
Thank you rjbrewer for getting me out of the error 15 hang up.

Edit: Update - Comparison of FULL and FRUGAL Installs on the Fujitsu Lifebook Pseries 256 RAM, 20 GIGS HDD, transmeta(tm) Crueso(tm) Processor TM5800

The *frugal* install grinds along at a miserable pace.
The *full* install moves much quicker. The *full* install doesn't exactly blaze around the machine but it definitely runs quicker than the *frugal*.

*Opera-10.63-Lucid* browser works best with lupu-520 in this situation. Opera appears to be a quick, clean browser, nice!

I am so glad I was shown how to install both the *frugal* and the *full* on the same machine giving me the opportunity to compare the two installs.
This is most helpful for further installs.

Edit: *Full* Install is not without it's perils. See discussion concerning effects on *full* install when *uninstalling* applications:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57010
Note rjbrewer's posts.

carldhickman
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#220 Post by carldhickman »

Great post...solved all my problems and sorted out all the different questions i had...just need to get the GRUB to auto-boot to puppy now

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