Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Mon 22 Dec 2014, 16:49
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 123 [1844 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3, ..., 121, 122, 123 Next
Author Message
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 02:02    Post subject:  Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
Subject description: 100% debian apt-get works 100% of the time, need help to make it a Puppy
 

Updated: March 2nd 2013

A new Pussy is currently being developed that is based on Debian Live Wheezy.

Newbie level full HDD install will finally be introduced in this version. All of the known issues that the older version had will be fixed (mostly due to HDD install being added as an option and newer less buggy rox-filer and other apps/ programs/ packages from the Wheezy repositories solve alot of the older problems).

New features/ bug fixes:

The actual ISO itself is bootable from GRUB/ Syslinux

Rox-Filer focus problem is solved due to a newer version of Rox-Filer

Newbie level HDD install and automatic GRUB config and dual booting setup is now a reality

Full non frugal/ Live HDD install is now an option. This uses less RAM than running a live system however, you cant use the same install on multiple computers without it messing up. (just like normal Debian installs that arent live and Windows for example)

The ability to specify what directories are "persistent" by editing one config file is introduced. Default behavior is all dirs are "persistent" but its possible to have only one dir like /root or /home or /myfiles set as "persistent". This can save space and clutter because it lets the user avoid keeping 1000 log files that get updated in the boot process from invading your save file or partition.

The inability to save to an NTFS partition if that partition is also the boot partition (ie. the bug that nooby made famous) has been fixed.

Copy to RAM boot method no longer copies the entire boot partition to RAM, only the specified .squashfs file.

The doubling of the JWM menus (Debain and Pussy) shouldnt be a problem anymore as saintless found a solution.

This new version does have a much larger disk footprint compared to the previous version.

3x variants of this new version of Pussy will be created:

#1) server/ console only edition. To be used as a server or as a nerdy educational/ technical learning tool. Similar to the older server version of Pussy but this time includes as much functionality that can be squeezed out of a commandline/ console/ terminal only OS. This will still work nicely on computers with no monitors attached (ie. headless server) and has network autodetection and all the server stuff working on the first boot (samba, webserver, ftp server, telnet server, ssh server etc).

#2) Pussy CDROM edition. Basically the same old Pussy with most the stuff you need already installed with the familiar JWM/ Rox-Filer/ Xorg desktop environment. This will take up an entire CDROM sized ISO and should be comparable to the older Pussy Xtra.

#3) Pussy DVD edition. Has everything you could possibly ever use or find useful. The size of a DVD ISO. Everything. More. Than. You. Could. Possibly. Imagine. Will. Be. Installed. And. Ready. To. Use.

Note the lack of a smaller Pussy "Base" version that was only a couple hundred MBs in size and offered a basic desktop environment with not many apps. This is because Pussy is now being designed to make full use of the space that is available on the media it is supposed to run from.
Also with the Wheezy base being much larger than the older Squeeze and the HDD install option adding another 200MB or so overhead of disk size, we decided to simply fit as much as we can into a full sized CDROM ISO.

Burning a 200mb distro to a CDROM disk is not how we will do things anymore. One reason is that all this does is waste 400 or 500MB of disk space on the CDROM that could be used for other things such as including all the apps/ firmware and other things that are traditionally downloaded and installed after setting up the OS. Its simply much better to offer a complete solution by including all the extra stuff that you would usually download and configure. This doesnt add to more RAM usage or load on the CPU as the same amount of apps are loaded into RAM at one time as the older smaller version. However if using the copy to RAM function to boot Pussy, then yes it will use more RAM.

I will post more info here as things develop. The server/ console only Pussy is just days or a week or so away from being finished and the CDROM desktop version is therefore maybe between 2 weeks and a month away from being released. The DVD version will probably be released between 1 and 2 weeks after the CDROM desktop version.

http://www.thepussycatforest.info

--------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is old news and is kept for archival purposes:

Updated December 29th 2011:

Uploaded the USB stick/ SD card image of Pussy Xtra to the new server.
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/pussy-xtra-beta-preview2.img.zip
Note: it may take 24 hours for the domain to become active, so if this url doesnt work for you just wait and try again. Instructions showing how to use the dd program to image a usb stick or SD card are on the website.

Updated December 6th:

Updated README.txt and known-issues.txt on the website: http://www.thepussycatforest.info to reflect the latest changes.

New features: auto mounting of removable devices and single click mounting of squashfs sfs and iso files. Webcam video recording and GTKam to grab images from cameras and grandr to manage multi monitor systems and change resolution of the fly. Keyboard mapping for other languages is now supported as a catroll-panel option.

There are OSes about with one click internet access, Pussy Linux is zero click. How would you like your wired ethernet to be automatically detected and setup even before the OS has finished booting? Try Pussy and see.

Pussy is in an early beta preview stage. There is 3 new versions of Pussy, both contain alot of fixes and some new features but this is a testing release and an early look at what will be available in the beta but there is still alot of work to do before the actual beta is released. Pussy has turned into a very community driven project and there are new features and fixes being added all the time, this early preview release gives Pussies contributors a chance to test whatever fixes have been applied since the alpha.

Pussy is similar to Puppy in the way it looks and works and offers a similar desktop environment but is based on Debian Live and has apt-get package management that works 100% of the time. We are still looking for Puppy devs to contribute so we can make this distro more Puppy like, with no noticeable difference to the user, but with the benefit of the debian apt-get package management.

Pussy Linux xtra iso download (649mb):
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/pussy-xtra-beta-preview2.iso
This is a demonstration of just how much functionality you can cram into a 700mb live-cdrom. DVD ripping, OpenOffice, video editing, assaultcube fps gaming, java, gimp, LMMS, compiling and development similar to devx This aims to be a complete solution, but uses no more resources than the standard version. Also fetures PPPoE and dialup.

Pussy Linux standard iso download (228mb):
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/pussy-base-beta-preview2.iso
Similar to Puppy in size and features.

Pussy Linux server edition download (91mb):
http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/pussy-beta-preview-server.iso
This boots to the commandline and by default, lighttpd, telnetd, pure-ftpd, openssh-server are running immediately ready to login. Has full wifi and ethernet autodetection with the wicd-curses network manager



Pussy separates the commandline and Xwindow system. Once booted, puppy has ssh, telnet, ftp and webservers working instantly. Pussy is a server OS and a desktop OS. Type startx to enter Xorg. Choose rox filer background to enable background icons. If you get ethernet connected spam over your login, dont worry, ignore it and login with root and pussy. In the future, the server edition will need to have user and pass to login, but the standard version, altho containing most of the server apps will boot to an Xorg desktop automatically with no need to login.

This is what Pussy Linux is:
Ive started with the smallest possible minimal install of debian-live. Then installed the familiar xorg, jwm, rox-filer desktop environment that puppy uses and most of the equivalent packages that puppy has except for puppy specific things like pburn and pdvdsrab and pmount etc somethings like those I am not able to shoehorn onto debian very easily. At present I'm a one man team. If others would like to work on Pussy and release patches for it containing these programs i would be very helpful. I have done nothing to break compatibility with the debian OS and as such the apt-get package management system works 100% of the time. After I've installed the apps i have hunted
through every folder of the OS and deleted anything that isn't needed, thus Pussy is slimmed down to a rough equivalent of Puppy. The application selection isn't exactly the same, Pussy contains stuff Puppy hasn't got and Puppy has stuff that Pussy hasn't got but I see Pussy as complete enough for a reasonable comparison between the two OSes.

Please note that the purpose of releasing Pussy is not to be in competition with Puppy, it is only to showcase to the Puppy devs that a Puppy based on a major distros base can be just as good and the package management is 1000x better at roughly the same size and resouces use. I am hoping that someone takes hold of Pussy and turns it into a Puppy.

Pussy will continue to be updated and worked on and like i said its very alpha ish and raw at the moment, but i hope that people in the puppy dev community will take a look at it and see how a future Puppy that is based on another major distro and is 100% compatible with it awesome package management could be created.[url][/url]

Last edited by sickgut on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 15:58; edited 26 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Terryphi


Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 763
Location: West Wales, Britain.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 02:59    Post subject:  

Interesting project. Does Pussy make provision for a frugal install? I have seen no mention of this in the release notes.

BTW I love the name. I am a notorious dog hater so Puppy is hardly appropriate. As for Pussy, well ....... Wink

_________________
Classic Opera 12.16 browser SFS package for Precise, Slacko, Racy, Wary, Lucid, Quirky, etc available here Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 03:58    Post subject:  

Terryphi wrote:
Interesting project. Does Pussy make provision for a frugal install? I have seen no mention of this in the release notes.

BTW I love the name. I am a notorious dog hater so Puppy is hardly appropriate. As for Pussy, well ....... Wink


The name Pussy will get barked hard at from some "Family Value Fan" I trust.
So mayby Tiger Linux or Serval Linux or CuddlyCat Linux, Kitty Linux unless that is a Trademark maybe KittyCat Linux?

sickgut, I agree with Terry above my post that a note on frugal install grub4dos with a menu.lst example would be cool to have.

Latest? Debian now has gone over to Grub2 1.97 something does that affect Pussy in any way?


Ooops you posted while me edited too. So I got some answer already.

Thanks. Okay then I try to get it going and see what happens.

Last edited by nooby on Fri 01 Jul 2011, 04:16; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 04:13    Post subject:  

i think live cd using hdd save file is frugal? if so thats what pussy can do. i think the only thing pussy hasnt got is hdd install in an easy way or actually any install menus, or grub4dos or grub setup from within the OS, if someone wants to submit a patch or code for this then let me know as im not an expert on these particular things, im a one man show at the moment, compared to puppy dev team i cant compete. this is why im showcasing the OS so maybe a puppy dev or 2 will kinda pup it up.

the debian move to grub 2 doesnt affect pussy because pussy uses syslinux to boot aparenly, similar to when you install puppy to a usb and it autoboots without grub.

sickgut
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 04:16    Post subject:  

Ooops forgot to ask this very important one.

Did you say if Pussy runs as root? If not what is the root password and is root toor as many others have?

Oh Pussy Linux does not have built in NTFS support. So I can only test it on USB that have Fat32 or ext3? I am too lazy for that so thanks anyway.

Sad it does not support booting up from NTFS. some 95% of all sold computers have that format.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 771
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 06:00    Post subject:  

Hi sickgut

This does look really interesting. Think I’m going to like Pussy-Linux.

I’m still a noob linux user so probably won’t be much help with development for a while (not without a lot of hand holding anyway).

I have a small selection of older laptops (max 256mb ram - mostly less)
all circa 1995 - 2001 or thereabouts, so they may not be ideal for testing.
Mostly ex win95/98 machines.

However - will try and see what happens.

Also have an Asus 701SD netbook with 512mb ram and a celeron proc.
That may be usable - currently using Puppee on it - very nice.

Also just got a win7 64bit laptop with 2gig of ram and an i3 proc.
Use fatdog64 and Lighthouse64 on it - via live CD. Both extremely good.

Not been brave enough to tackle partitioning etc on it yet, read many reports of disaster if non win7 (ie gparted) tools are used.

So need to learn more about that.
Many might argue that the disaster is win7 itself - but it seems a shame to scramble it unintentionally.

What you have done seems to me as being outstanding - a compact distro with FULL apt-get functionality that, like Puppy, can be used from a CD, an SDcard or a USB stick that can be carried with you at all times.

I would like to think that some of the Puppy guru’s would get hold of this and make a PussyPuppy or a PuppyPussy or 2 or 10 and incorporate the best of both worlds into what could become a world beating OS.

IMHO - Puppy is that already - but we can improve.

It looks as if your debian base is already PAE-enabled, so a good degree of future proofing is already in place.

I for one wish you every success with this and hope that the good
people here embrace this in the fashion that it deserves.

Thank you for sharing with us - and for showing us that Pussy’s are alright too.

Very best regards - Ray.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 06:46    Post subject:  

hi nooby,
yes its meant to run as root. Its a multiuser system but you shouldnt really need to login as a normal user unless your using some server stuff like i think the ftp server doesnt like root connections.

The root password is pussy, its mentioned in the first part of the release notes.
Also you can change root password once logged in via the passwd command or the icon on the desktop or in the "Catroll-Panel" called password.

Pussy has ntfs support and can access ntfs partitions and can load save files from them. I dont know if pussy can boot from an ntfs usb stick or not i have only gotten as far as the default FAT32 partition as the boot partition on the USB stick. All the other information you could need about the partitions etc are in the release notes: http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/release-notes.txt

Ive just tested Pussy's NTFS support by creating a /test dir and then mounting the partition via: mount /dev/sdb1 /test
and the contents are viewable. I have also created save file on the NTFS partition and it found it at boot and loaded it. I dont know if Pussy can boot from a NTFS partition yet as I dont have a good HDD install system yet so thats jumping the gun a little at the moment. The only method i know of installing to HDD is by using dd to image the usb flash image to the HDD and this will setup a fat32 boot partition and then you make the rest of th drive into a ext2, 3 or 4 partition and label it as "live-rw" and Pussy will use the entire partition as a save file.

OK keep your comments and suggestions and questions comming
sickgut
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 07:08    Post subject:  

just a quick note to let yall know there is an easter egg in the usb flash drive .img install that explains the "Less Lonely" codename a little.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 08:21    Post subject: problem with USB "toram" and compressed save file  

--------------
UPDATE: this is fixed in the new full version that is available to download now, it has replaced the older version on the webserver so any newly downloaded Pussy will have the fix. Users must choose not to copy to ram if they wish to use compressed save files, this is reflected in the new boot menu, the copy to ram thing is now optional
---------------
Hi I have discovered a problem with the USB install as it defaults to the copy to ram option at boot up and this is incompatible with the "Catroll-Panel" save-file option as the /live/image dir is mounted as the same size as the files in the dir and there is no free space.

The fix for this is:
edit the live.cfg file on the USB media in the /syslinux folder (ie. /syslinux/live.cfg). and remove the "toram" option from the following entry:
-------------------------
label persist
menu label ^Persistent
kernel /live/vmlinuz
append initrd=/live/initrd.img boot=live config persistent noautologin swapon toram noprompt quickreboot
-------------------------
so that it now looks like:
-------------------------
label persist
menu label ^Persistent
kernel /live/vmlinuz
append initrd=/live/initrd.img boot=live config persistent noautologin swapon noprompt quickreboot
------------------------

Also the "toram" feature is a little silly as it takes a while to copy to ram and without this feature the system boots way faster as doesnt seem any slower once booted. But however, with the "toram" option enabled you can literally remove the usb stick from the drive once the OS is booted. The save-file option in the "Catroll-Panel" can be edited to create the save file in a direct path to any of your HDDs etc if you still want to use the "toram" option. But as it stands now, i will be adding this information to my website and the next version of the USB image I upload will not have the "toram" option enabled.

note: once the usb Pussy install is loaded with the "toram" option (as default) even if you goto the /live/image folder and edit the /syslinux/live.cfg file it will not save to the USB media, the entire OS i running from RAM and so even these dirs are replicated in RAM, you will have to mount the USB drive manually and then edit the live.cfg file, or boot to another OS and edit the file from their.

This is the first actual bug/ problem/ issue i have discovered with Pussy, hopefully there wont be many more, but this is what the Alpha release is all about, sorting out problems and so the Beta release is a higher standard.

Last edited by sickgut on Thu 07 Jul 2011, 09:36; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 08:52    Post subject: Bug reporting  

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux/bugs.txt

I have added a bug report section on my website, as per the above url. Any bugs reported here will be posted along with any fixes (if any) to the website.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:12    Post subject:  

sickgut thanks for all those test you did.

I am in a lazy mood just now had it been some two month ago then I would have spent many hours on it but now I did only some 15 to 30 minutes.

The grub4dos code I used was either not enough or it does not like to boot from NTFS.

Sure it can mount such if it has booted from Fat32 or Ext3 maybe or one need some special code that I don't know and that is likely.

I have never got a Debian thing going AFAIK. I mean is not Simply Mepis rather close to Debian? Knoppix is based on Debian? And that one use codes like this


title Knoppix 6.4.3 Adriane (Poor Man's HD install)
kernel (hd0,2)/knoppixadrianeboot/boot/isolinux/linux BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX knoppix apm=power-off screen=1024x768
initrd (hd0,2)/knoppixadrianeboot/boot/isolinux/minirt.gz

It fails if one don't have this part. BOOT_IMAGE=KNOPPIX

So maybe I should have done something like
BOOT_IMAGE=LIVE or BOOT_IMAGE=PUSSY to get it to boot Smile

Compare with AntiX like this

title antiX-11 frugal using iso use blkid
root (hd0,2)
kernel /antiXboot-M11/vmlinuz fromhd=UUID=xxxxxxxxxxx fromiso=antiX-M11.iso quiet nosplash lean noxorg vga=791
initrd /antiXboot-M11/initrd.gz

When I tried without the fromhd=UUID= then it failed to boot.
And I failed to boot normally had to resort to iso boot.

But I know very little so those that know Debian can tells us how to boot your Pussy Linux on NTFS

Why I am skeptical is that grub gave a error message warning. Can not boot due to ntfs something so that sounds believable to me. Smile
Why else would it warn that it was not possible. To mount is something else. Boot has to be permitted in the very script while mounting is done with a prgram after boot. Two different situations.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:30    Post subject: thanks nooby, yes NTFS non bootable  

Hi nooby

Im sorry, it looks like you are much more knowledgeable about how grub works and booting stuff from HDD than I so i dont think i can offer any advice. I simply have not tried to boot Pussy from a HDD yet using grub, the only way ive done it (and i am running right now on the computer im using) is by using "dd" to image the usb image to my hdd then use gparted to create a ext 3 partition on the drive and lable it as the name: live-rw
this gives me basicly a full install but this is the only way i know how to do it.

I take your word for it that pussy cant boot from an NTFS, and thank you for your time and effort investigating this. I now know that it is an issue i will need to address once I have a basic hdd installation system. I didnt know you could boot a iso from a hdd with grub at all, if this is possible then this looks like a very good way to have Pussy installable on the hdd!!!
If someone manages to get Pussy booting from a ext2 , 3, or 4 partition i would be extreemly greatful if that person would give me a howto that i can follow and also post on the website.

I will ask around on the debian-live irc channel about the NTFS booting thing and see if there is a solution.

But seriously nooby, thankyou for showing me the code how that an iso could be booted from a HDD, i didnt know it was as simple as that and you have opend my eyes, thankyou very much for your information

sickgut
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:44    Post subject:  

Sorry me so Lazy. Within some ten years or so I should create a distro named Lazy Noob Linux

I give the iso boot a try with your Pussy too and will spend the coming 15 to 45 minutes on it and report back and if I fail to remember do remind me. Smile So here goes I write back here within say an hour or so. ....

Did some different takes on how to boot but I obviously have not enough practice on how to boot Debian. You need to describe to them what you have changed and see if any of them get a hunch on what would work on NTFS.

I wonder about this.

Is not latest Debian a 1.997 I mean Grub2 booting iso?

So maybe that is what makes it fail for me?

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

Last edited by nooby on Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:34; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
TrailerTrash


Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jul 2011, 10:56    Post subject:  

Sounds good but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE leave alone the wvdial with the mobile broadband compatibility. Don't make the mistake of removing that. Lot's of us are going to be "high and dry" if you do.

Thanks Exclamation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 03 Jul 2011, 09:33    Post subject: wvdial  

UPDATE:
the current version has wvdial in the /addon dir of the live media, unzip it and click the install script and it will use dpkg to install all the debs in the dir.

hi trailertrash,

the next version will have wvdial

Last edited by sickgut on Wed 06 Jul 2011, 00:40; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 123 [1844 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3, ..., 121, 122, 123 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1455s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0209s) ][ GZIP on ]