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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun 2011, 23:12    Post_subject:  Puppy Users Group ---The PUG ....
Sub_title: A place for users to post their ideas for Puppy..
 

Very Happy Hello,
Puppy is a do-ocracy...
So I choose to do this..

The Puppy Users Group, or PUG for short...
This thread is to facilitate the launch of a Community Access Portal...
Tips, assistance like a website, moderation, etc..TBD as of yet..

This is MY THREAD..no insulting posts, personal attacks against other posters or pointless complaints without thoughts about solutions, will be tolerated...
I have not the resources to do this alone... But others do...

We should not tolerate obscene posts, insults, and demeaning commentary, as we find on MANY forums and blogs...

Suggestions are welcome, demands are not...

I would support PUG as a part of this forum, but many may not...
Alternatives?? Not an ICQ thing... A true forum...

If necessary, this may lead to a community edition of Puppy, to satisfy user requests...Official Puppy is just that..Official, mainstream, whatever...

You want a Puppy Linux "Users Edition"...
Lets go... Cool

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun 2011, 00:14    Post_subject:  

LOL... I always thought of this forum as PUG Smile
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun 2011, 07:45    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
@DaveS,
As do I...
However, as of late there have been a rash of threads/posts about giving the "users" a voice...
I hope to let this thread open the door to suggestions and opinions in a controlled atmosphere..
Any insulting commentary or personal attacks, and I will request it be closed right off... I dont want to even see the word "Developers"... Suggestions about PUPPY only... What would you like to see in future Puppies??? ( Note...Not Puppy`s future..)

Details... "I would like to see xxx in Puppy"

In this thread "Puppy" means just that...the Distro...Not the community, the supposed "leaders" or any specific person or persons...
Not generic "I want to see Puppy be #1" comments...
But specific "I think Puppy should have xxx by default"...
CONSTRUCTIVE criticism please...
I`ll even start if off...

I think Puppy should have a default browser, preferably Seamonkey as you get more "bang for the buck" ie email, html editor etc...
Having default Puppy without a browser is a difficulty for our dial-up users....

As for a "base"...
" I think Puppy should be Slackware/Debian/etc based"..
Go to the Spup/Dpup/etc thread then...

Feature based comments...
"I like xxxWm".."I dont like the default theme"..etc..

We are here to make Puppy better...
Just remember that "your idea" of better may not be everyone`s idea of better...

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun 2011, 13:17    Post_subject:  

The basic idea is certainly good.
But I think the form as is used in murga's forum will not fit the bill.
As an example I note the pup214X thread here. Now at 288 pages.
I am sure there is a wealth of information in there and probably answers to any kind of problems. But try to find an answer to a specific problem without reading those 288 pages.

Maybe a NNTP newsgroup/server would put more structure in the flow of information.

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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1144
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun 2011, 14:35    Post_subject:  

Hi Béèm,

Have you tried seaside's ThreadGet (the 288 pages can be downloaded and searched)

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=62236&sid=558274d0c3ef8f36237d19329525bcd9

My regards
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun 2011, 21:03    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Jasper...Thanks...Ive been looking for something exactly like that... Cool
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Stripe

Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: In a field. England

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun 2011, 22:11    Post_subject:  

Hi all

Puppyluvr I think you are right about the discord that appears to have reared its head, the idea for this thread is great and I wish you every sucsess with it.

I think that puppy should come with a browser as standard (I personaly like firefox but if you want a particular browser you can always download it)

I also think that puppy should be offerd without flash (as with baby spup and the small latest wary) as flash seems to be a resource hog on older/limited hardware. (and I dont trust it lol)

Cheers
Stripe
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 00:04    Post_subject:
Sub_title: SeaMonkey standard +1; structured application downloads; detailed help packages
 

Stripe wrote:
...
Puppyluvr I think you are right about the discord that appears to have reared its head, the idea for this thread is great and I wish you every sucsess with it.

I think that puppy should come with a browser as standard (I personaly like firefox but if you want a particular browser you can always download it)...


I agree with Stripe on every point here, puppyluvr - but though I prefer FF, it has been trying too hard to be too much for too many lately, and tends to hog. sc0ttman has recently updated his fabulous "FireDog" from FF 1.2 to 4.x and there are some wonderful tricks up its paws ideal for us puppy-ites. Is a pre-configured, Puppy-specific FF an option? That said, I've finally come around to SeaMonkey (BK's favourite, still?). FF's little brother certainly seems destined to shine and I know there's a lot of debate currently about it being a better browser overall, for many reasons. What swayed me finally is the work of various volunteers to port specific add-ons like ZOTERO over to SeaMonkey, so now I have the best of all worlds, and as happy as a pug in pat...
And speaking of over-reaching critical mass - it would probably be worth a PhD thesis to chart the timings of discordant outbursts on the Puppy forum. I could say something about the Community being like a sun with cyclic storms and solar flaring - but because I don't want to be flame-mailed by BK and other's close to the core who might object to being thought of as gaseous giants rather than the creative and frankly nurturing forces they actually are - I won't Smile . With all my postings on all forums, I keep in mind Guru Thumper's immortal words: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say nuthin' at all."

BACK ON TRACK with the aims of the OP, I would love to see implemented a "tier" system of puppy packages pitched to the developing expertise and it's ever-growing - and therefore NEW and mostly ex-M$ - users. stu90 provided a perfect example of a stripped-back Lucid 525 without all the standard extras like the PGR-whatevers, Superscanners, FTP- and SSH-hoosiwhatsits, and calculators I will never use - think all those menu options must tend to geek-out a sizeable chunk of new users. Has anyone seen the point at which the eyes of your previously-intrigued PC and Mac audience glaze over and roll back into their heads when you let them loose on a Puppy distro? It happens right there. "Linux - isn't that painful?" was the response of one of my uni-student colleagues. I was then pushing pat uphill...
The "tier" idea - provide SFS's pre-packed with a selection of apps geared at growing levels of computer savvy (Tier1 might be first-timers to computing, Tier3 might be road-warriors - I don't have any clear idea on how to draw these lines in the silica). However, ALSO PROVIDING detailed instructions of their use provided as HTML with screen-shot examples - pretty much exactly as cthisbear does for his tutorials for M$ users elsewhere on the forum - but succinctly packaged for access and reference when off-line. No thread-hunting. Zotero libraries would be perfect for such a function, but there may be other solutions to providing a "mentoring" guide deeper into Puppydom.
I want to be absolutely clear - NOT a structured "dumbing down" but rather a "growing up" scaffolding to assist all those who want to get off the "keeping-up-with-the-Gates' " treadmill and reduce. reuse, recycle intelligently. As I understand BK's GPL for Puppy - it belongs to anyone even casually browsing these pages from the 'safety' of their Vista/Win7/Longhorn/Mac OS. Let's make their introduction into the Puppy pack as painless and as fruitful as possible.

Bow-wow

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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1380
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 01:04    Post_subject:  

I would like to see something like Jitsi
http://www.jitsi.org/. Plus some others incorporated into a puppy distro. I made a pet package of jitsi out of http://download.jitsi.org/jitsi/debian/jitsi_1.0-beta1-nightly.build.3515_i386.deb

Came out as a 17MB Pet (made in Puppy 5.2 kernel 2.6.33). Installed and opened OK on my Laptop in Pupppy 5.2 so far. Have yet to install and try it on Mywolfe, Macpup, SLOS and Puppeee Yet. I tried to upload my pet to the forum. But the size of it probably kept it from uploading. So gave up. Kids play to make the pet yourself in Puppy 5.2 with right click in rox file manager though. That is why I supplied the latest i386 nightly build download link.
It puts jitsi repo during pet install in ~/.packages.

Another I like and install and use is
http://code.google.com/p/inxi/
I have posted in the how to on installing it. Helps more of bash 4 is installed but works ok in bash 3. It runs n all my Puppy Installs.

Last is pianobar.
http://6xq.net/projects/pianobar/
I realize overseas members can't stream pandors. But pianobar scrobbles lastfm for overseas users. I made a pet package for it and it's dependencies and posted/uploaded to this forum. Made from
http://packages.debian.org/sid/pianobar

As the version gets upgraded In Sid. I will try and keep making and testing my made pets. My pet works in quirky/SLOS, MyWolfe latest, Puppy 5.2, And Puppeee.

Any hows. That in a Puppy release would make me smile. I use Iceape in AntiX-Debian Squeeze/Sid. So Used to Seamonkey. Besides. I can install what ever I wish in Puppy Mostly.

Happy Trails, Rok
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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 720
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 06:15    Post_subject:  

I like this thread, non threatening, non demanding, positive ideas. I wrote a thread here...

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=67974

with my own thoughts that seems to be along the same intention of puppyluvr's thread here. Also, there is one by akash_rawal here...

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?search_id=754706024&t=60911

that I liked, and should be mentioned here.

Also, I'll one up the browser by default thing, without it, puppy is kinda crippled. There are a bunch of browsers besides the big ones that could be included by default to minimise MB usage in the ISO. Think links, dillo, midori, IE9 (just checking if you're reading)

I like that flash is included with puppy, because it can be a b!tch to install sometimes, but agree that it is not to be trusted, and not a great bit of software. If only gnash or similar were up to scratch.

Also, more linux only goodies would be great in puppy. There are lots of things that puppy and linux in general do to mimic windows, and to a lesser extent mac. It would be great to see puppy, or a puplet that is pure linux, and better for it. Not the nerdy "its better because I can use terminal and you can't" better that linux suffers, but better because it is. Think for eg, compiz..
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 08:25    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
LOL, Im working on a Compiz Puppy ATM...

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p310don

Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 720
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 09:37    Post_subject:  

Hello puppyluvr,

I've seen your work on facebook. Looks good. Compiz was my example, and it's pretty cool, but also is a high load toy, almost the antithesis of puppy.

Other things I can think of are good NFS file sharing ootb, with gui for us clicker users, more development of ext4 and other linux native filesystems in save files and hdds, better range of linux drivers, open source or proprietary doesn't matter to me, just what's good - maybe in a zdrv, functional modularity, stu90's stripped lupu, then sfs's to load all the other stuff, on the fly would be cool, like an option pack, ootb media support (puppy does this well already)....

running out of thoughts, just hit midnight, will sleep on it
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 10:22    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
I agree that a "barebones" Puppy OOTB would be a good thing...
Let the user decide what they want to add on...
I think Tazoc has had the right idea all along with LHP`s expansion pack idea,
IE Mariner and Voyager etc..
A Multimedia sfs, Office set, one basic, one full blown...

I have not tried the "on the fly sfs" thing yet....
Can it load an sfs from the CD/USB the user booted from??
We could have a good selection of sfs`s in the ISO, but not loaded at boot,
unless specified in a save... Could even offer a variety of iso`s depending on needed software...Same base Puppy, different selection of sfs`s...

Oh, and I agree about Compiz being pretty much the antithesis of Puppy..
But a lot of users have high end machines, Puppy isnt just for "dinosaurs" any more.. So I thought a Puppy should be available OOTB with Compiz
for those who want it, and dont want to go through installing it... Confused

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11121
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 10:53    Post_subject:  

Béèm wrote:
The basic idea is certainly good.
But I think the form as is used in murga's forum will not fit the bill.
As an example I note the pup214X thread here. Now at 288 pages.
I am sure there is a wealth of information in there and probably answers to any kind of problems. But try to find an answer to a specific problem without reading those 288 pages.

Maybe a NNTP newsgroup/server would put more structure in the flow of information.

I've often thought it would be nice if someone could take a thread like the one you mentioned, remove the off-topic stuff, rearrange it to make it more understandable, condense it, add some clarifying comments, and post it to the How-To section (or Additional Software or wherever makes the most sense). Obviously such a labor of love would have to be done by someone who is very knowledgeable about the topic of the thread.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4368
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sat 04 Jun 2011, 15:12    Post_subject: 4 items that could help Puppy future  

@PuppyLuvr I have posted these before over the past 3 years, but here goes again. Maybe this time, someone will hear us.

Item #1
1st off - 99 and 44/100% of ALL PCs sold in this world are Microsoft. in 1992 an Australian working with a Fin, Tovalds, together, came up with a strategy and a product to add connection capablility to the Linux/Unix community....even before Apple jumped on the bandwagon. He worked with the ISO group assigned and developed SAMBA! It is the MAJOR thing which separates Puppy from Windows....Puppy CANNOT SHARE FILES Out-of-the-BOX with Windows PCs!

Many commenters are going to jump on this post's item saying that full SAMBA is made available for PUPs today.

I say NO!. They are NOT made available if you provide a PET that is hampered or misleading or incomplete when it is added to the system. (FATDOG is the ONLY 1, to date, that installs sets up and is complete for SAMBA 3.5.6)

Further, the many commenters in the past have made references to the size. 40MB. I say that as any Windows convert will tell you, I DONT CARE ABOUT THE SIZE...I want my PC to join, behave, and share just like every other PC (Windows/MACs since 2000/top 5 Linux distros/Unix boxes, etc.) without searching, understanding how to install in order to use something built-in that I've been using since 1995.

The agravasion, the misguided messages, the need for extra user understanding or steps is just creating issues that NO Puppy user should endure. It I don't have to endure problems like this on my MAC, I should have to endure it on Puppy?

Now, Barry's WARY is a completely different story as his primary intent is make something for old and old-small PCs. And Quirky belongs solely to him for testing. Puppy, though, is for general distribution and intends to be a framework effort for modern PCs. And, IFF it wasn't for this obviously missing system need, I would say that is truly is a Windows replacement for modern PCs which is its stated objective.

Most of us, have PCs which were built after 2006, therefore, the need for WARY is not there. Thus Puppy (5.2.5) and FATDOG (5.11) and ICE are more adapted to meet the needs of that 2006+ community.

My statement here is merely to add a functionality which should be exactly the same as Microsoft or Apple (same of other major Distros have done)....it should have a menu item. And a part of the base PUP that delivers it.

Personaly, I feel that no user should have to think twice about sharing a folder/file from Puppy. But, sadly, today, its treated as an afterthought...or oh, I forgot!

Lastly, it should be consistent and available in all official PUPs (I am concerned if FATDOG is being considered an "official" PUP. I don't recall seeing it EVER referenced that way. If it is, and since its implementation of SAMBA 3.5.6 is the ONLY working PET model we have, it might be a good candidate for steering all 32bit PUP's)

Of all of my suggestions for this thread, this one is the simplest and the easiest to move Puppy. It does not entail writing any code...simply installing a package from the provider or the repository as a part of the system such that it is made visible and consistent with any present libraries in the system.

Again, this one thing separates Puppy from being compared to be the equivalent of an OOTB Windows7 equivalent, IMHO.

Hope this helps.

P.S. I agree that SeaMonkey (the grandfather of FireFox) should be a part of the system as it is the only browser, today, that delivers a complete feature pack for internet user without the need to install anything. (This doesn't mean most will use it, but, I'm sure anyone who wants, will find at least 2 things to like about this NETSCAPE (that's right) which just seems to improve with age.)

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