Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship

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RetroTechGuy · #81 Post by **RetroTechGuy** » Fri 20 May 2011, 20:31

[quote="puppyite"]Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.

jonyo · #82 Post by **jonyo** » Fri 20 May 2011, 20:38

RetroTechGuy wrote: I still don't understand why you're trying to derail the next version of Puppy. However, I have confidence that Lobster and/or 01micko will complete such a project.

some feel it is a step backwards/sideways as opposed to moving forward, users will decide in the end anyway

bugman · #83 Post by **bugman** » Fri 20 May 2011, 20:40

RetroTechGuy wrote:My observation is that running one of "the big boys" is often more a case of OS snobbery, than actual OS utility. That is, often users who do little more than browse the web, send email, and write an occasional document -- they could trivially do all of that with Puppy, and much more.

i use debian because i can get a reasonably up-to-date and complete repo on disc, and because i can easily install and use apache, mysql and php for web development, as well as whatever other software i might need or want

i am on dialup so having the repo on discs is important to me

i don't want to struggle with every installation, so having a normal packaging system is important to me

i don't want to struggle with upgrades, so having a distro that doesn't come out with a new version every month is important to me

i use a 'big boy' because puppy is too much work, too much time - i could use windows but apache on windows is shit

also, i like debian's politics, and like knowing that they have a system for ensuring continuation of the project

the possibility of puppy simply coming unglued makes me nervous . . .

jonyo · #84 Post by **jonyo** » Fri 20 May 2011, 20:59

here we have heavyweight comments from a seasoned vet

bugman wrote:i don't want to struggle with every installation, so having a normal packaging system is important to me

i don't want to struggle with upgrades, so having a distro that doesn't come out with a new version every month is important to me

i use a 'big boy' because puppy is too much work, too much time - i could use windows but apache on windows is shit

also, i like debian's politics, and like knowing that they have a system for ensuring continuation of the project

the possibility of puppy simply coming unglued makes me nervous . . .

whereas
http://puppylib.open-lib.net/puppy.html

Puppy Linux Mission Statement (Barry Kauler):

Puppy will easily install to USB, Zip or hard drive media
Booting from CD, Puppy will load totally into RAM so that the CD drive is then free for other purposes
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast
Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use
Puppy will just work, no hassles
Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs

MinHundHettePerro · #85 Post by **MinHundHettePerro** » Fri 20 May 2011, 21:07

Ah, the missionaries are back.
Anyone remember Scunny Rob? I'm starting to get the same vibes ........
fwiw

/ MHHP

8-bit · #86 Post by **8-bit** » Fri 20 May 2011, 21:19

All this talk about a democracy of users deciding how and what Puppy should be.
For those that want a democracy of a Puppy edition, how about another Community Edition of Puppy?
That just maybe would satisfy those that want/demand things be included in Puppy.
And to be fair, lets access to every browser and application that the end user can dream up.
Or better yet, just include ALL of them.
I would describe the end result as a piece of s**t.

I think it is tiring reading the rants on this thread that seem to be getting nowhere other than the few that insist that what goes into Puppy and what it should be and become.

And by the way, I am not by any means a scholar and only have a high school education.
Also, I have taken no formal classes on anything computer or computer programming related.

Some of us have problems expressing ourselves on the forum due to education or language barriers.
This does not mean we are dummies or mentally deficient.
So to those in this thread that insist theirs is the only way, Get off your high horse and live in the real world.

jonyo · #87 Post by **jonyo** » Fri 20 May 2011, 23:14

8-bit wrote:All this talk about a democracy of users deciding how and what Puppy should be.

users decide one way or another

Q5sys · #88 Post by **Q5sys** » Sat 21 May 2011, 01:15

[quote="puppyite"]Here Barry says: “The choice of which distro's packages are used is not really up to me.

technosaurus · #89 Post by **technosaurus** » Sat 21 May 2011, 02:53

Here is an example of how a novice to intermediate user could help out devs:

They _could_ sort through the various suggestion threads and sort out the various suggestions into a new thread and maintain the status in the first thread in concise terms (note - you may want to reply to it a couple of times to reserve the top 3 or so posts)
... also for long posts it is sometimes helpful to cut/paste from geany

Why?
... devs may not be aware that a suggestion has been implemented in puplet X
... anothet user or dev may already have done it, but it is sitting on sdh8 etc...
... its a lot easier to look through a short list and pick a project that interests you _and_ have time for
... sometimes we just get sidetracked and need a little reminder
... because they get to put their own wishlist first

WhoDo · #90 Post by **WhoDo** » Sat 21 May 2011, 03:48

puppyite wrote:... the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.

OMG! How many times does this have to be reincarnated before it finally dies? Maybe "his Majesty the Water Bug" can call on his Buddhist connections to answer that one?

Since this IS a do-ocracy, Puppyite, please go ahead and create the "governing council" of which you speak! Give us a call when you have it all up an running so we can start sending in our requests for future Puppy versions 6, 7, 8, etc. etc.

BTW, since several former "lives" of a "governing council", also known as the Puppy Linux Foundation, have been driven by "his Majesty the Water Bug", perhaps you could seek tips on pitfalls and shortcuts from him?

jonyo · #91 Post by **jonyo** » Sat 21 May 2011, 03:57

new pup variants
royalty pup
his majesty pup
the water bug pup
monarchy pup
buda pup
whodo pup beast
do-ocracy, pup
pia pup
conflicted vrs pup
governing council pup
etc pup
omg pup
puppy reincarnated

jonyo · #92 Post by **jonyo** » Sat 21 May 2011, 04:03

WhoDo wrote:
puppyite wrote:... the Royal Court headed by his Majesty the Water Bug are in charge. I vote for a governing council instead of Monarchy.
OMG! How many times does this have to be reincarnated before it finally dies? Maybe "his Majesty the Water Bug" can call on his Buddhist connections to answer that one?

without elections it won't the old ways are done like dinner
"it's like this" has run its course
it is to be inclusive or not
interesting comments here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68034
The rise and fall of CentOS

Well, that party is over. Last week Dag publicly announced he was resigning from CentOS development work, seemingly over development team communication issues. In the comments there, Dag specifically suggests Scientific Linux as the right distribution to move to now, saying "their process is more open and the people are actually friendly to feedback." If a tight development group has enough resources to keep its users happy, so long as the end result is open-source I'm not going to knock the process that got there. But when your release is at least four months later than it was expected by most people, and you're causing major community contributors to abandon your project in a bad way, I don't have any choice but to start looking into more open projects.

I've seen this movie before, and I didn't like the ending the last time. Thanks to the CentOS development team for helping provide me with an excellent business-oriented Linux distribution I been able to use for free over the last four years. But I'm writing this as my first Scientific Linux install executes, and I have my first SL6 work for a customer also fed up with waiting on CentOS6 to start on when it's finished. CentOS isn't the first group to run an open-source development project without what I'd consider a really open development community, they're just the latest to show how dangerous that is.

bugman · #93 Post by **bugman** » Sat 21 May 2011, 10:54

jonyo wrote:
Puppy Linux Mission Statement (Barry Kauler):
Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies
Puppy will just work, no hassles

and it does, in its limited way

anything beyond the iso and some [but not all] of the pups is a hassle

remember that i was responding to a specific inanity from retrotechperson

and that my ideal distro is not my ideal puppy

[2.xx or so is]

bugman · #94 Post by **bugman** » Sat 21 May 2011, 11:16

MinHundHettePerro wrote:Ah, the missionaries are back.
Anyone remember Scunny Rob? I'm starting to get the same vibes ........
fwiw / MHHP

missionaries are a vital part of any distro though, no?

i suppose there's the missionaries you agree with, and those you don't . . .

or is it just a personality crisis?

on another note, was thinking it might be time for me to build my most useless distro ever soon, based on your cat /dev/hda1 > /dev/audio

[the failure of the do-ocracy]

puppyite · #95 Post by **puppyite** » Sat 21 May 2011, 11:25

WhoDo wrote:Puppy Linux Foundation

If it was created without public nominations or elections then IMO it was doomed from the start. A lack of transparency and openness is precisely what's wrong with the current situation.

MinHundHettePerro · #96 Post by **MinHundHettePerro** » Sat 21 May 2011, 11:52

bugman wrote:on another note, was thinking it might be time for me to build my most useless distro ever soon, based on your cat /dev/hda1 > /dev/audio

bugman's do-re-mi-fa-sol-ocratic distro with built-in atonalities ......

/ MHHP

bugman · #97 Post by **bugman** » Sat 21 May 2011, 11:56

MinHundHettePerro wrote:sol-ocratic

solo-cratic

will not repeat the mistake of barry - will not let anyone use it

MinHundHettePerro · #98 Post by **MinHundHettePerro** » Sat 21 May 2011, 12:06

Summer's approaching these northern parts ...

I was thinking more of a soleil-ocratic distro - spread some sunshine to dispel the gloominess .........

/ MHHP

8-bit · #99 Post by **8-bit** » Sat 21 May 2011, 13:13

I do not understand what the big deal is.
You want a say in Puppy.
You want it to be made to your expectations.
If BK was a bad guy that forced his OS on you with no options to change anything, I might see that.
But he has went the extra mile and created WOOF for those who are not as adept at creating an OS.
So take the WOOF utility and build Puppy the way you personally want it built.

Puppy cannot and will not be all things to all users in the Official distributions.

So again, just use WOOF to build your own version of Puppy including what you want and excluding what you do not.

And get off your power trip!

puppyite · #100 Post by **puppyite** » Sat 21 May 2011, 14:10

There is no shortage of intelligent people in this community. Why doesn’t someone offer their own ideas about how to introduce more openness - transparency AND give average users a seat at the table or at least more influence?

Maybe making a constructive suggestion is too hard or maybe it’s just easier to run down those who do.

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Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship