Users and Developers - Symbiotic Relationship

What features/apps/bugfixes needed in a future Puppy
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RetroTechGuy
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#41 Post by RetroTechGuy »

puppyite wrote:The unhealthy element here is the corrosive environment created by some forum members.

Admittedly I have no tact or people skills. My only allies are logic and strategic thinking.
Read your 2 statements, back to back. What you call a "corrosive environment", I assume is aimed at myself (and perhaps a few others). But are you also part of that "corrosive environment"?

I'm afraid that I have become a rather cranky old man. And as such, crankiness begets crankiness... Yes, I suspect that our crankiness is feeding upon one-another... :wink:
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58615]Add swapfile[/url]
[url=http://wellminded.net63.net/]WellMinded Search[/url]
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Caneri
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#42 Post by Caneri »

Hi RTG,
I thought that the primary cause of death of puppylinux.asia was the host killing off "stored files"...
Yup, that happened alright, but the major issue was money and the need to expand into a full fledged server situation with solid admin and security. That costs BIG bucks and it wasn't there. I truly had no place to run .ca/asia anymore without buying servers and plugging them into a data center with blocks of bandwidth and possibly re-selling....dunno, but time ran out on me and I needed to move on as well, so the new admin was vastly important.

I was following Murga's credo...."if it pays for itself then it runs"

@Thom,
I think I'll do linguine with CANNED clams in white butter/wine sauce...grrr....All My Best..Eric
[color=darkred][i]Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.[/i]
Chinese Proverb[/color]

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technosaurus
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#43 Post by technosaurus »

Symbiotic means that devs also get something useful in return, I don't see anyone offering any kind of bounties. Until then, with no additional incentives, users must wait for the things they want/need until a dev wants/needs it too. ... what good is a barter economy if you don't use it.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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RetroTechGuy
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#44 Post by RetroTechGuy »

technosaurus wrote:Symbiotic means that devs also get something useful in return, I don't see anyone offering any kind of bounties.
Thus the typical user is in a parasitic relationship with the devs... ;)
Until then, with no additional incentives, users must wait for the things they want/need until a dev wants/needs it too. ... what good is a barter economy if you don't use it.
I have suggested a "BeerPal" app, that permits users to bribe the devs with a bounty appropriately... ;) :lol:
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58615]Add swapfile[/url]
[url=http://wellminded.net63.net/]WellMinded Search[/url]
[url=http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html]PuppyLinux.US Search[/url]

puppyite

#45 Post by puppyite »

RetroTechGuy,
When I read your posts this is what I hear: Bla Bla Bla

Regarding polls: When I need your advice I’ll ask for it.

Regarding corrosive environment: Don’t flatter yourself, I wasn’t speaking about you specifically. And don’t include me in with the corrosives.

A smiley buys you nothing.

puppyite

#46 Post by puppyite »

technosaurus wrote:Symbiotic means that devs also get something useful in return, I don't see anyone offering any kind of bounties.
My reward for creating the Puppy Linux FAQ consists of messages of appreciation.

I bend over backwards for anyone who earnestly asks my help.

What do you want, a payday?

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8-bit
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#47 Post by 8-bit »

puppyite wrote:8-bit,
Just to be clear, your post does not apply to me.
I was not pointing fingers at anyone!
I also know that by you having a website that supports Puppy, you are helping out.
To give you a problem I have with helping out with donations to support the costs of maintaining sites for Puppy and also donations to BK, I do not have any type of internet money transfer.
So how do I give funds that I am reasonably sure will arrive where they are supposed to?

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mickee
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#48 Post by mickee »

RetroTechGuy wrote:
technosaurus wrote:Symbiotic means that devs also get something useful in return, I don't see anyone offering any kind of bounties.
Thus the typical user is in a parasitic relationship with the devs... ;)
This, I believe is a true statement (of most users..), as it is not a true symbiotic relationship. That is not to mean that the parasite doesn't sometimes have something to offer a dev if it provides them with an idea, or a way to improve their build and thus provide them with something (maybe just a good feeling, I dunno...)
[img]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b68/The_Wizard_of_OZ/Lindows-NOT-1.jpg[/img]
Linux is [i][b]NOT[/b][/i] Windows. Doesn't [i][b]PRETEND[/b][/i] to be, Doesn't [i][b]WANT [/b][/i]to be; Don't try to [i][b]MAKE[/b][/i] it be.

puppyite

#49 Post by puppyite »

8-bit wrote:
puppyite wrote:8-bit,
Just to be clear, your post does not apply to me.
I was not pointing fingers at anyone!
OK. I just wanted to make it clear that I have not approached any developers with demands.
I also know that by you having a website that supports Puppy, you are helping out.
To give you a problem I have with helping out with donations to support the costs of maintaining sites for Puppy and also donations to BK, I do not have any type of internet money transfer.
So how do I give funds that I am reasonably sure will arrive where they are supposed to?
If you have PayPal see this thread about donating to Barry.

The donate button is on the right just down from the top on this page.

I tried to putting a direct link to Barry’s donate button in this post but it times out so no joy there.

If you’re offering to donate money to me thank you very kindly however I don’t have a donate button on the Puppy Linux FAQ. If ever I do I’ll let you know.

If you can’t use PayPal I did a search for “internet money transfer

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technosaurus
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#50 Post by technosaurus »

$$ would be nice but only a small part of the barter system.
Ex. If you are a retailer with a product that you want to see supported, donating one to a kernel maintainer could be a smart barter.

It doesn't even need to be a physical trade - Things like documentation, code cleanup, spelling, readability & grammar checks, translation, etc... come at the bottom of the todo list for most devs.
verification and clarification of bug reports can save lots of time
or offering to upload (or even host) large numbers of packages ... I for one had so many that I just invented a way to maintain them as a single script.
it all depends on their abilities
Basically trade work that you _can_ do for coding that you can't = win/win

for example- I would offer to port the puppy web desktop's (pupweb.org/desktop) header menu system with webapps and a better forum search and integrate the rest for use @ puppylinux.*

I considered setting up some appropriate affiliate programs in a support context,, but it is really time consuming to set up.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

puppyite

#51 Post by puppyite »

All this talk of parasites, bounties and barter sounds rather mercenary to me. I don’t think of Puppy Linux FAQ visitors as parasites. IMO anyone who needs a payday from volunteer work might need to step away from it for a while. YMMV

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Q5sys
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#52 Post by Q5sys »

puppyite wrote:Admittedly I have no tact or people skills. My only allies are logic and strategic thinking.
Says the man who said he had no reason to explain himself to others, yet wants others to be accountable to him an follow his desires.
Logic and Strategic, Mr. Carroll; are not one of your strong points, else you would not have talked yourself into a corner in your last thread... which ironicly timed perfectly with the creation of this one.

puppyite wrote:
technosaurus wrote:Symbiotic means that devs also get something useful in return, I don't see anyone offering any kind of bounties.
My reward for creating the Puppy Linux FAQ consists of messages of appreciation.
I bend over backwards for anyone who earnestly asks my help.
What do you want, a payday?
Well since you want to advocate this 'democracy system'. How about giving all of us a vote on how you created the FAQ. Since you feel that democratic vote should determine the path of development... I for one vote that you make it pink with purple pokadots. Oh and it should have a bouncing talking dog that reads the contents of page out to anyone visiting.
Now do as you've been asked, and make that happen. Cause if you dont do it you're being selfish and refusing to do whats been suggested (the same things you've said about the 'Royality' as you put it.)

(and so there is no confusion. That last paragraph is meant as sarcasm, to hopefully show you how some people may feel about your suggestions. I say 'hopefully' in ernest. )


Aside of it all... its pretty pathetic that all this uproar is over a simple number. If you look at the thread about 5.3, lots of people advocated making a slack based puppy be v6. However only one person has spawned multiple threads and seems to be on a holy crusade to force this issue. Others have spoken their ideas (which includes me) and have left it up to those who are making the decision. I mean are we really that petty that the number 5 vs 6 is worth this much dissention?

And I gotta be straight here, I think its going to be pretty pathetic if Barry has to get involved to silence this mess. I'm sure by now Barry and 01micko and playdayz, have talked about this mess. Is it any suprise that they are keeping silent? This is like a middle school fight. So much drama about this. Lucid development can continue with the current number scheme. We arent limited to just 2 numbers. Hell Wary is at v5.1.1.56 right now I think.
Yea I'd like to see a slack base as v6. But I have other things in life that I need to focus my thought and energy on. It must be nice for someone to have this much time on their hands to dedicate to a simple matter.

nothing else in life to worry about and focus on.

puppyite

Update

#53 Post by puppyite »

I have added the following to the OP:

When I made the OP for this thread I hoped that others would suggest ways as to how users might have a “seat at the table

jonyo

#54 Post by jonyo »

in a large body making decisions, typically there is a motion put forward

there must be a seconder to the motion

then there is discussion and debate including possible amendments to the motion

then it is put to a vote, someone is delegated a vote in the event of a tie

large bodies making decisions usually have governing rules of order that might be of consideration here, for example Robert's rules of order

http://www.robertsrules.com/
Last edited by jonyo on Fri 20 May 2011, 17:23, edited 1 time in total.

nooby
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#55 Post by nooby »

My opinions are not very informed at all. I've only looked from the wayside of fast running cars swishing by but everything I experienced on Puppy forum up to now tells me that you puppyite get what puppy is very wrong.

Puppy is what the devs and those users the devs feel have enough knowledge to give reliable feedback to them and devs only do things because they have an inner drive to do them.

Not because puppyite or Nooby or somebody else demands things.

To go on like you have done could even kill their puppy spirit.

Nope encouragement and positive feedback and our thankfulness is what could work and friendly hints that don't make any demands.

I trust you make too many demands.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

jonyo

#56 Post by jonyo »

i say the above is limiting and will only take you so far not to mention i'm not concerned in the least about this part
nooby wrote:To go on like you have done could even kill their puppy spirit.

jonyo

#57 Post by jonyo »

i would also add that at this point, as far as i'm concerned puppy is bigger than any one man

puppyite

#58 Post by puppyite »

I don’t give nooby’s posts too much credence. As was pointed out to me by Aitch he’s a “special case.

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RetroTechGuy
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#59 Post by RetroTechGuy »

[quote="puppyite"]I don’t give nooby’s posts too much credence. As was pointed out to me by Aitch he’s a “special case.
[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58615]Add swapfile[/url]
[url=http://wellminded.net63.net/]WellMinded Search[/url]
[url=http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html]PuppyLinux.US Search[/url]

jonyo

#60 Post by jonyo »

users can also abandon ship at any time for whatever reason, it's the beauty and reality of having options
Last edited by jonyo on Fri 20 May 2011, 19:00, edited 1 time in total.

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