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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Cloud Computing, a Huge Step Backwards
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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 758
Location: U.S., Midwest, Central Time Zone, GMT-6

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 09:49    Post_subject:  Cloud Computing, a Huge Step Backwards  

Cloud computing is really just a euphemism for thin client. Remember the dumb terminal? Employees had one on their desk, it was little more than a monitor and a network interface. Upon arriving to work people would sign on the network and begin working. All software, user files etc resided on a server. All of which was managed by the IT department and controlled by the employer.

Cloud computing duplicates this model closely. The only difference is you supply a dumb terminal and network connection (a.k.a. Internet connection). Now software and user files reside in the cloud (a.k.a. Internet). Notice I didn’t say your software or your files. Reason being is they don’t belong to you, they belong to whoever hosts those files and applications. If the server goes down or you lose your Internet connection your dumb terminal is unusable.

Just to make the point clear about ownership there is one unbendable rule about the Internet. Whoever pays for hosting is “Guy In Charge”, he makes the rules. If he thinks you violated TOS and wants to deny you access he can. If he wants to raise the price for storage you’ll pay or lose your files. If he raises the price for software usage you’ll pay or your computer will be unusable. If he goes out of business you lose your files. If the server crashes you lose your files and you can’t do a thing about it because he made you agree to hold him blameless. If he sells out and you don’t like how the new “Guy In Charge” does business (any of the above) you lose your files and your computer is unusable.

This could be what the future holds in store for you if you go along with it. Your computer will be a thin client if you succumb to cloud control. So the question is, are you sheeple or are you “Guy In Charge”?

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Moose On The Loose


Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 508

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 10:15    Post_subject: Re: Cloud Computing, a Huge Step Backwards  

puppyite wrote:
Cloud computing is really just a euphemism for thin client. Remember the dumb terminal?

(snip)

Cloud computing duplicates this model closely. The only difference is you supply a dumb terminal and network connection (a.k.a. Internet connection). Now software and user files reside in the cloud (a.k.a. Internet). Notice I didn’t say your software or your files. Reason being is they don’t belong to you, they belong to whoever hosts those files and applications. If the server goes down or you lose your Internet connection your dumb terminal is unusable.


There is another couple of elements to the trend you have identified (at least in the US).

The networks are no longer going to be required to carry packets with equal priority. This means that the guys who make the networks can slow the packets from services that compete with them and completely block some just by making them infinitely slow.

Many companies are switching to the "windows domain" method of doing networks. This means the companies are moving towards the central computer and terminals on a local basis along with the trend towards the cloud.
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mickee


Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Saskatoon SK Canada, Gateway 5300 Laptop, 600MHz Celeron, 384MB RAM, lucid puppy 5.2 (Full Install)

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 12:34    Post_subject: Re: Cloud Computing, a Huge Step Backwards  

puppyite wrote:


This could be what the future holds in store for you if you go along with it. Your computer will be a thin client if you succumb to cloud control. So the question is, are you sheeple or are you “Guy In Charge”?


My thought exactly. When you have to depend on some other entity to be able to work with your data, you are a slave to them. IMHO, anyway. I've attempted to do some cloud computing and do have lots of places in the cloud** where I have storage, but they are duplicated on my local PC.

**Cloud = Internet

So that's what I have to say aboot that, eh?

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 3726
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 12:39    Post_subject:  

But it does mean that your work is op system independent. I have been running an accounting system in 'the cloud' for a week now as an experiment. I was able to access the system from home on my Linux box, and from various workplaces on their Windows machines. I all cases I was able to work with the system and print invoices etc with no problem. This is the seductive side.
By using globally recognised formats I am able to download a copy to whatever box I like as a back up. Notice the role reversal.... main file is now off site, while back up is local Smile
I am guessing I can even use this via my Andriod phone, though so far I have not tried, and presumably via an Android tablet should I ever get one.
I can hand off permissions to other employees to allow them access from wherever they happen to be.
But I agree, the whole thing is based entirely on trust, and history teaches us that is a bad model.
There is a little more.... I have my phone synced with Google Contacts and Google Calendar. This allows me to change my phone without having a mass of re-configuring to do. My calendar is 'shared' with my wife, so access to ANY PC or via cell phone gives us full awareness of what is upcoming in our lives.
Again.... seductive indeed...................

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puppyite


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 12:47    Post_subject:  

Hi DaveS,
There are two mind sets. One favors convenience and the other favors control. For me control wins every time.

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DaveS


Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 13:45    Post_subject:  

puppyite wrote:
Hi DaveS,
There are two mind sets. One favors convenience and the other favors control. For me control wins every time.


I am with you on that, but it pays to experiment with this stuff I think?

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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 06:48    Post_subject:  

I just dont get cloud computing... If I want to use online storage, I'll use my web hosting account.. If I didnt have one, but wanted one, I'd get one...

With web hosting, I am the "guy in charge", I got unlimited space and bandwidth, with 99.9% uptime, for about $10 a month (hostgator, only been down once in 3 years, for about 5 mins)...

And I choose or make the software that I connect to, in the 'cloud'... Some of these stupid "cloud" concepts are more expensive than unlimited, reliable, fast web-hosting!

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thane

Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 112
Location: Waipahu, Hawaii USA

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 18:58    Post_subject:  

Personal computing is the equivalent of keeping your money under a mattress. Today's cloud computing is roughly the equivalent of what banks were in 1930. Maybe safer than your mattress, but you could still lose everything if the bank went under.

The answer was bank reform. The government started requiring banks to adhere to certain standards and guaranteed depositors' money. OK, personal data is not as fungible or easily replaceable as money, but additional legal protections could still make it safer than it would be on your personal PC. So we should reform the cloud.

edit: Or maybe start developing the cloud equivalent of credit unions. Cloud systems that are owned by and accountable to their users.
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2lss

Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 19:37    Post_subject:  

For me, cloud computing is only acceptable if you physically own the server used to store your data.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1795
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sun 01 May 2011, 05:24    Post_subject:  

sc0ttman wrote:
I just dont get cloud computing... If I want to use online storage, I'll use my web hosting account.. If I didnt have one, but wanted one, I'd get one...

With web hosting, I am the "guy in charge", I got unlimited space and bandwidth, with 99.9% uptime, for about $10 a month (hostgator, only been down once in 3 years, for about 5 mins)...

And I choose or make the software that I connect to, in the 'cloud'... Some of these stupid "cloud" concepts are more expensive than unlimited, reliable, fast web-hosting!


You and me both mate!

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OFC Dark Puppy

Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 16:51    Post_subject:  

Before you buy into cloud OS. Like Chrome OS or Windows 8, ask yourself this. Do you trust Google or Microsoft with your life and your information?

Essentially everything you do will be going through their servers. You won't be able to download your own music or store your own files. It'll all be stored online within their servers.

Essentially it's like living your entire life in a little room full of cameras and trusting the photographers not to sell the photos. Just to give a rough metaphor.
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dogle

Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 328

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 17:08    Post_subject:  

With you, Puppyite, Scottman, Smokey01, OFC Dark Puppy. Cloud stinks, methinks, save as a handy way of parting the soon-parted ... which is not to say it may not be a great commerciaL success for the parters ... who seek to exploit that tried-and-tested business axiom 'there's one born every minute' ... as so elegantly demonstrated by the prowess of the OS we all love to hate.

thane, oh-oh, I surmise that you have not been bled by the failure of a 'reformed' bank (as have I!), but your inspired 'credit union' edit may open a new debate - is there a case for non-profit cloud arrangements?
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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 21:06    Post_subject:  

I am against the cloud thing.

Let me tell you a little story.

as you might know it's Chinese labor day here. But I was told the banks wouldn't close. I had to go to bank to get something but it started with trouble.

The only bus to downtown came but fully loaded and 15 buses passed without stopping at the stop. I wasted a lot of time. When I did get to the bank, the department was closed only for that day. They offered no apology.

In China, customer is not a king but a shit.

On my way back home. same thing happened. I finally took other buses to get home.

I wasted a whole day and got nothing.

Why? I trusted the bank and the bus system. That's the reason people have private safes at home and have their own car and have guns under pillows even though cops do exist.

Same thing goes to cloud thing. What if they go out of business, deny the services, you lose the password or hacked by someone?

Would you trust the total strangers? If so, your moms would cry. mothers tell their kids not to trust strangers.

If anyone with right mind ever even consider the cloud thing trusty, you have wasted your entire life learning nothing.

It's so simple and clear. End of discussion.

-------------------------------------------------------
John May 2011 in the era of stupidity discussing cloud shit which is the closest thing to nuke power plants in Japan.
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mickee


Joined: 08 Feb 2011
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Location: Saskatoon SK Canada, Gateway 5300 Laptop, 600MHz Celeron, 384MB RAM, lucid puppy 5.2 (Full Install)

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 09:45    Post_subject:  

puppyiso wrote:

If anyone with right mind ever even consider the cloud thing trusty, you have wasted your entire life learning nothing.

It's so simple and clear. End of discussion.

-------------------------------------------------------
John May 2011 in the era of stupidity discussing cloud shit which is the closest thing to nuke power plants in Japan.


I use the cloud for non-crucial storage. It is handy, but I would never store too much personal stuff in it. I use free solutions that fit my specific needs. If the account gets hacked, it will offer me some embarrassment and frustration, but certainly not more than that. So trusting -- not a whole lot. Convenient for me, yep. And it can be free, eh?

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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 13:16    Post_subject:  

Ah.. non-personal stuff. Yes, it is a very smart way of using the not so trusty cloud services.

Keeping not so important stuff on their servers is sensible.

(for those having slow internet connection, it's still cumbersome than just using high capacity usb or portable HDD)
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