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Having trouble booting hard drive full installation of Wary
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Marrea

Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 12:50    Post_subject:  Having trouble booting hard drive full installation of Wary  

I am a Puppy Linux newbie and am having trouble booting a full hard disk installation of Wary.

I followed the instructions for a Full Installation at http://puppylinux.org/main/Manual-English.htm#Manual06 to the letter except for the location of the Grub bootloader. I have a multi-boot Windows XP/Linux computer and I always use the Windows ntldr/boot.ini as my primary bootloader, so I have placed Grub on /dev/sda7 (the Puppy root partition) and copied the Puppy bootsector file across to Windows C: with the appropriate line added to boot.ini. On reboot, the ntldr takes me to Puppy’s Grub OK but when I select the Puppy entry from the Grub menu all that happens is I get a screen which keeps repeating

can’t find /dev/1: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/2: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/3: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/4: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/5: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/6: no such file or directory

I have no idea how to escape from this (Ctrl-Alt-Del does nothing, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace does nothing) so I have to use the computer’s power button to shut the machine down.

The Grub files are stored on /dev/sda7 and my menu.lst entry for Puppy is as follows:

title Puppy Linux (on /dev/sda7)
root (hd0,6)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7 ro vga=normal

Any clues as to what I am doing wrong?

Machine is an Asus Terminator TR-2
2 GB RAM
Pentium 4, 3.00GHz
A single 160GB IDE Hard Disk Drive, partitioned as follows:
    71 GB Windows XP
    10 GB Linux
    1 GB Linux swap
    10 GB Linux
    10 GB Linux
    10 GB Linux
    8 GB Linux
    2 GB fat 32 shared partition
    10 GB Linux
    17 GB Linux

Optical drive is an LG HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GH22NP20
Keyboard and mouse are both USB
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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 14:28    Post_subject:  

While I have always used Grub on mbr for multiboot;

the most popular method with puppy now is Grub4dos.

It's included in the Wary menu and doesn't destroy the
Win boot sector.

_________________

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Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 16:26    Post_subject: Re: Having trouble booting hard drive full installation of Wary  

Marrea wrote:

I followed the instructions for a Full Installation at http://puppylinux.org/main/Manual-English.htm#Manual06 to the letter except for the location of the Grub bootloader.

Those instructions are for an obsolete version of Puppy (431). Note in those instructions it says:

Quote:
Frugal Installation is recommended if you have 256 MB RAM or more. If you have less than 256 MB RAM you should choose Full Installation.

With 2GB RAM you should have a frugal install, not a full install. It will be faster and work better.

I'm not familiar with grub. I use grub4dos now and before that I used lilo for years. When your grub screen comes up is there an option to run grub commands? If so, run find /boot/vmlinuz and report back. Did you try stopping the repeating screen with Ctrl-C, Ctrl-S, Ctrl-Q?

Try this:

Code:
title Puppy Linux (on /dev/sda7)
kernel (hd0,6)/boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7 ro vga=normal
initrd (hd0,6)/boot/initrd.gz
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Marrea

Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 18:13    Post_subject:  

Many thanks indeed rjbrewer and Bernie_by_the_Sea for your suggestions. Prior to seeing Bernie's reply I had in fact already decided to try a frugal installation (I have to confess I missed the bit about frugal being recommended for 256 MB RAM or more - I should have read the instructions more carefully!)

You will be pleased to know that the frugal installation has worked perfectly and I am posting this from within Puppy. Smile

In answer to your question about the repeating screen, I did try Ctrl-C, which also had no effect, but I did not try either Ctrl-S or Ctrl-Q.

It's a super little distro, isn't it. I'm more used to working with distros such as openSUSE, Debian and Ubuntu but I'm trying to find an easy lightweight distro to put on my husband's Sony VGC-V3M alongside Windows XP. I thought Puppy might be a good choice but I wanted to try it out on my own computer first to get a feel for it before attempting to install it on his.
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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sat 30 Apr 2011, 21:10    Post_subject:  

Welcome to the Puppy forum, Marrea.

I'm a crotchety old geezer, age 83, and sometimes my posts here are a bit abrupt. I'm glad to hear that a frugal install worked for you. Puppy is a toy that's fun to play with.

I have a couple of fairly heavy weight distros on my computer but I use Puppy well over 90% of the time.

_________________
Frugal: Knoppix 6.4.4 DVD
USB: DSL 4.4.10
Full: WinXP Pro
Puppy (Feb. 4 - May 12, 2011) led me back to Linux.
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Marrea

Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun 01 May 2011, 10:09    Post_subject:  

Bernie_by_the_Sea wrote:
Welcome to the Puppy forum, Marrea.

Thank you for the welcome.

Bernie_by_the_Sea wrote:

I'm a crotchety old geezer, age 83, and sometimes my posts here are a bit abrupt.
.
I certainly didn't detect any abruptness in your reply to me. I myself am hardly your conventional "geek", being a female in my sixties! Smile

I just love experimenting with Linux. I firmly believe it helps to keep the old grey cells active. However, my husband thinks I am completely mad and refers to this hobby of mine as "playing with penguins". Very Happy
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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun 01 May 2011, 11:46    Post_subject:  

Marrea wrote:
I myself am hardly your conventional "geek", being a female in my sixties! Smile

I just love experimenting with Linux. I firmly believe it helps to keep the old grey cells active. However, my husband thinks I am completely mad and refers to this hobby of mine as "playing with penguins". Very Happy

The average age of a Puppy user is reportedly 56 so this isn't exactly a teenage hangout. My wife is an avid Windows promoter so she thinks I'm mad to put the penguins through their hoops. Smile
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Sun 01 May 2011, 20:30    Post_subject: Re: Having trouble booting hard drive full installation of Wary  

Marrea wrote:
I have a multi-boot Windows XP/Linux computer and I always use the Windows ntldr/boot.ini as my primary bootloader


Your statement implies more than one bootloader, please elaborate.

Marrea wrote:
so I have placed Grub on /dev/sda7


Grub is likely to come in parts and located differently, for example, you
can install Grub to a boot sector, an MBR, and other places, with
support files located elsewhere.

Do you mean /dev/sda7/boot/grub, as shown below?

Code:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root     15 2010-08-11 22:39 device.map
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   9940 2008-05-03 11:07 e2fs_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   9380 2008-05-03 11:07 fat_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   8692 2008-05-03 11:07 ffs_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   1826 2010-08-11 22:39 grub.txt
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   8724 2008-05-03 11:07 iso9660_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  10176 2008-05-03 11:07 jfs_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    512 2010-08-11 22:39 mbr.hda.1804
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   3093 2011-04-24 19:19 menu.lst
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   8884 2008-05-03 11:07 minix_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  11252 2008-05-03 11:07 ntfs_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  11124 2008-05-03 11:07 reiserfs_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root    512 2008-05-03 11:07 stage1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 136658 2008-05-03 11:07 stage2
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 136658 2008-05-03 11:07 stage2_eltorito
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   8968 2008-05-03 11:07 ufs2_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   8308 2008-05-03 11:07 vstafs_stage1_5
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  11004 2008-05-03 11:07 xfs_stage1_5



Marrea wrote:
and copied the Puppy bootsector file across to Windows C:
with the appropriate line added to boot.ini.


If you did that, I wonder what an appropriate line looks like. Please state.

Code:
can’t find /dev/1: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/2: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/3: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/4: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/5: no such file or directory
can’t find /dev/6: no such file or directory


There is no such device as /dev/2

Marrea wrote:
The Grub files are stored on /dev/sda7 and my menu.lst
entry for Puppy is as follows:

title Puppy Linux (on /dev/sda7)
root (hd0,6)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda7 ro vga=normal

Any clues as to what I am doing wrong?


I'm not going to pull teeth to get answers & I would like answers to all
I requested. Which means if you want your teeth pulled, you have to help me
help you.

~

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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun 01 May 2011, 22:57    Post_subject: Re: Having trouble booting hard drive full installation of Wary  

Marrea wrote:
I have a multi-boot Windows XP/Linux computer and I always use the Windows ntldr/boot.ini as my primary bootloader

Bruce B wrote:
Your statement implies more than one bootloader, please elaborate.

I use the same method. Windows boot.ini is my primary bootloader and grub4dos is my secondary bootloader.

Marrea wrote:
and copied the Puppy bootsector file across to Windows C:
with the appropriate line added to boot.ini.

Bruce B wrote:
If you did that, I wonder what an appropriate line looks like. Please state.

Mine looks like c:\grldr="Start Linux" although I suppose I should change that to c:\grldr="Select a Linux Version".

This is all academic now since Marrea eliminated the booting problem with a frugal install.
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Marrea

Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 16:45    Post_subject:  

Hi Bruce B

Many thanks for your input. As Bernie_by_the_Sea so rightly points out, this is all rather academic now as I have replaced the full installation of Puppy Linux with a frugal installation, which is working fine. However, I will attempt to answer your queries as best I can.

Yes, I have two bootloaders. Windows ntldr, with its controlling boot.ini file, is my primary loader and Grub is the secondary loader.

Much to my surprise, having just checked, my main Puppy Linux Grub files (listed below) are actually in /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc (on the partition /dev/sda7).

    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8288 2009-04-09 01:17 e2fs_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7856 2009-04-09 01:17 fat_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8712 2009-04-09 01:17 jfs_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7352 2009-04-09 01:17 minix_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9756 2009-04-09 01:17 reiserfs_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 512 2009-04-09 01:17 stage1
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 121740 2009-04-09 01:17 stage2
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 121740 2009-04-09 01:17 stage2_eltorito
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9556 2009-04-09 01:17 xfs_stage1_5


I have never come across Grub files being in /usr/lib/ before. I assume this is something peculiar to Puppy Linux and a frugal installation?

Here is my Windows XP boot.ini file, with the “appropriate line” for Puppy emboldened.

    [boot loader]
    timeout=30
    default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
    [operating systems]
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect
    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Safe Mode" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /safeboot:minimal /sos /bootlog
    c:\bootsec.pcl="PCLinuxOS 2010"
    c:\bootsec.sus="openSUSE 11.3"
    c:\bootsec.sux="openSUSE 11.4"
    c:\bootsec.puw="Puppy Linux Wary 5.0"
    c:\bootsec.koa="Ubuntu 9.10"
    c:\bootsec.lyn="Ubuntu 10.04"
    c:\bootsec.zen="Zenwalk 6.4"


During installation of a Linux distro I always specify that I would like the bootloader to be located on the Linux root partition, in the case of Puppy Wary this is /dev/sda7. I then make a copy of the Linux boot sector file, using the following dd command:

Code:
# dd if=/dev/sda7 of=/bootsec.puw bs=512 count=1


(You can call the output file (of=/bootsec.puw) in the line above anything you want. I believe it is best to stick to the old DOS 8.3 naming format and for the 3 part I usually choose something which relates to the distro, so in this case I chose pu[ppy] w[ary])

I then mount the Windows XP partition and copy bootsec.puw across to the Windows root C:\ partition. Following this I boot into Win XP, open up the boot.ini file in Notepad and add the line c:\bootsec.puw=”Puppy Linux Wary 5.0” (the bit in quotes can be anything you like - you could call it “Wills and Kate” if you want to! Apologies for this reference to our recent Royal Wedding!).

Then I reboot the computer, the Windows boot screen appears listing Windows XP and all the Linux distros. I select “Puppy Linux Wary 5.0” and ntldr hands control to Puppy Linux’s Grub from where I select the entry “Puppy Linux 500 frugal in sda7dir”.

Yes, I know there is no such device as /dev/1, /dev/2 etc. That is why I was so puzzled to see that on the screen.

I am very new to Puppy Linux and have a lot to learn yet about the way it works. Confused
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106498

Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 250
Location: NZ

PostPosted: Mon 02 May 2011, 18:45    Post_subject:  

Wow, that sounds like linux expert work to me! Since you say you are interested in learning, and not just "getting it to work", I would suggest scrapping the windows bootloader alltogether.

Why? Why not! It is more elegant that way. Every single linux bootloader is capable of booting Window.

Personally, I have grub4dos installed to the MBR, with the menu.lst file in my windows NTFS partition. This way I can edit it from within windows as well as within linux. The only downside is if windows hibernates, then it becomes a read only partition. I will re-install soon, and put the menu.lst in my fat32 data partition.

The directory you mention, I'm pretty sure, is where the files are always kept. On installing grub they are copied to their proper location in /boot somewhere usually. Find menu.lst, that's where they'll be.

-Thomas

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Marrea

Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 07:37    Post_subject:  

Hi there 106498

106498 wrote:
Wow, that sounds like linux expert work to me!

Not really. When written down it sounds rather long-winded but when you do it all the time as I do it is very quick. I've been using this method to boot my Linux distros on this particular Asus desktop since I bought it six years ago.

Quote:
I would suggest scrapping the windows bootloader alltogether.

No way! I know that Windows can be booted quite easily from any Linux distro. So why do I persist in using the ntldr? Simply because Windows XP is the one constant on the Asus, whereas the Linux distros come and go as whim takes me! Therefore it is easier to use the bootloader belonging to the operating system which always endures, ie Win XP. I have nothing against Grub and in fact use it on my laptop. However, whereas I mastered legacy grub configuration fairly easily, most of the new distros are now using Grub 2, which as you no doubt know does not have a menu.lst but various fiddly files and is not quite so straight forward to customise.

Quote:
Personally, I have grub4dos installed to the MBR, with the menu.lst file in my windows NTFS partition.

I have to confess I had never heard about grub4dos before using Puppy Linux. I need to find out more about it.

Quote:
Find menu.lst, that's where they'll be.

I have had a job finding menu.lst. Puppy's file finder simply reports "No files found" when I enter menu.lst and hit Search. However, I knew that it must exist, otherwise I wouldn't have a grub menu at start-up. So I have manually searched through the file system and found that there are also Grub files in /mnt/home/boot/grub, as follows:

    drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-04-30 22:12 .
    drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2011-03-25 00:55 ..
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 15 2011-04-30 22:12 device.map
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30 2010-03-15 23:52 device.map.backup
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30 2010-10-22 18:46 device.map.old
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8288 2009-04-09 01:17 e2fs_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7856 2009-04-09 01:17 fat_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7040 2010-11-18 23:12 ffs_stage1_5
    -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 117 2010-11-18 23:12 install.sh
    -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 115 2010-10-22 18:46 install.sh.old
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8576 2010-11-18 23:12 iso9660_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8712 2009-04-09 01:17 jfs_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2730 2011-04-30 22:20 menu.lst
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 908 2010-11-18 23:12 menu.lst.old.15241
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2717 2011-04-30 16:51 menu.lst.old.4177
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7352 2009-04-09 01:17 minix_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9756 2009-04-09 01:17 reiserfs_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3576 2010-02-17 01:15 splash.xpm.gz
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 512 2009-04-09 01:17 stage1
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 121740 2009-04-09 01:17 stage2
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 121740 2009-04-09 01:17 stage2_eltorito
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7392 2010-11-18 23:12 ufs2_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1833 2011-04-30 22:12 usage.txt
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6592 2010-11-18 23:12 vstafs_stage1_5
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9556 2009-04-09 01:17 xfs_stage1_5


Goodness, this Puppy Linux is confusing - Grub files in both /usr/lib and in /mnt/home. Rolling Eyes
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9200
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 08:23    Post_subject:  

@Marrea: There is nothing wrong with your boot technique - it just isn't commonly used in the Puppy community.

Just to be clear - you now have it working, but with a frugal install? If so, the problem was with your original full installation, not with your boot procedure.

There is no need to switch to GRUB4DOS or scrap the Windows bootloader.
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Marrea

Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 09:38    Post_subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
@Marrea: There is nothing wrong with your boot technique - it just isn't commonly used in the Puppy community.

Hi rcrsn51
It's not just the Puppy community where it isn't commonly used. I get a lot of flak from all the Linux forums I belong to for not using Grub as my main bootloader. But then the vast majority of Linux users hate anything to do with Microsoft and can't understand why anyone would choose to use its bootloader, whereas I am a computer user and happily switch between Windows, Linux and Mac. Operating systems are a hobby for me, not a matter of principle.

Quote:
Just to be clear - you now have it working, but with a frugal install? If so, the problem was with your original full installation, not with your boot procedure.

Yes, that is quite correct. I have Puppy working with a frugal install. My original problem was nothing to do with my preferred boot procedure. The Windows bootloader handed me over to Puppy's Grub OK. It was after that that things went wrong. It was something to do with Grub/menu.lst not being configured properly I think. I'm inclined to have another go at a full Puppy install on another partition at some stage just to see if I can sort it out.

Quote:
There is no need to switch to GRUB4DOS or scrap the Windows bootloader.

No, no reason to do this - other than to satisfy my own curiosity about grub4dos. Wink
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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Tue 03 May 2011, 10:03    Post_subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
There is no need to switch to GRUB4DOS or scrap the Windows bootloader.
Marrea wrote:

No, no reason to do this - other than to satisfy my own curiosity about grub4dos. Wink

It's easy to switch to grub4dos and retain the Windows bootloader.

When my computer boots up, ntldr/boot.ini gives only two choices, XP or Linux. If Linux is selected control passes to grub4dos where I make a Linux selection. I do it this way to write as little as possible to the Windows partition. I still don't trust Linux messing with ntfs formats and I don’t like messing with the MBR.

MBR > ntldr > boot.ini > grldr > menu.lst

This method needs only one file (grldr) copied from grub4dos to the Windows partition and adding one line to boot.ini (c:\grldr="Linux") then you have a grub4dos system.

Looking back and checking dates on files, it seems I switched from Lilo to this method in 2006 and that it’s simply LinNWin or a variation thereof. Even though it seems LinNWin was written for Puppy, I didn’t even look at Puppy back then and used this boot method for Knoppix, Debian and Mepis. It's very easy to add new systems. You just add an entry to menu.lst to point to the kernel and initrd of the new distro and you're done.
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