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 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Security
Run puppy as spot
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr 2011, 08:31    Post_subject:  

Nooby is there and spoiling all the fun though.

Micko your BrowseSafe pet ran just fine when I really read your instructions. So thanks for providing it.

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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Wed 27 Apr 2011, 13:04    Post_subject:  

noryb009 wrote:
So you are saying to not trust random pets from this forum? That leaves compiling everything yourself. Take green_dome's wine pets for example. Less then 100 posts by green_dome (less when green_dome started the thread). Does posting ~100 times make you trustworthy? (Just using green_dome as an example). This is more of an package management issue, which is another topic. What I was trying to point at is that it is easier to infect root then it is to infect a user (and keep it hidden from the user better).

No, that is not what I said and you did not say “this forum.” You said Googling. Compiling everything yourself is not the only other choice. I use many deb and rpm packages and in fact use more of those than pets. There is no matter of “trust” involved. I’ve tried pets in a person’s first post in this forum. And no, it is NOT easier to infect root than any other user.

noryb009 wrote:
One of puppy's purposes is for making old computers work like new. How is it to achieve that goal if no one recommends it to friends because they are scared of them running as root 24/7?

I have no idea how many people recommend operating systems. In 32 years of having home computers I can’t think of a single person who took my recommendation of an OS, not even my partner in several home computer software businesses, and certainly not my wife (Windows user) and not my children (Solaris users). In fact I wouldn’t recommend any version of Linux to anyone except perhaps as a rescue CD to repair other systems. Then I would likely recommend Knoppix.

Quote:
That would be nice since no one has ever seen a Puppy virus.

Quote:
Correction: That would be nice since no one has ever detected a Puppy virus.
I know that there is a 0.1% chance any .pets on this forum have anything bad in them, but someone could easily go onto this forum, post 100 times, compile a smaller/faster ls, then get everyones credit card. That wouldn't be good.

Just like no one has ever detected a unicorn. No one has ever detected a Puppy virus because Puppy viruses are impossible. No one has ever gotten anyone's credit card number via this forum or via Puppy. Such is impossible (at this time). You seem to live in fear. My banks and credit card companies GUARANTEE that I will never lose a penny using credit cards or transferring money on the web. Do you understand how HTTPS works?

Quote:

(In case your wondering, the ls would download and install a new infected library for the default browser randomly. This is just an example)

This is an example of nonsense. Has it happened? No. Could it happen? Not in the foreseeable future. Do you know how easy it is to write a Puppy virus and put it in a library where it will get executed?

Quote:

I keep bring up the issue of .pets by random people because it's a real issue that isn't going to be fixed anytime soon.

There is no “issue" to be fixed. Every single person on this forum is random. I've never met one of them in person. I have no real names, addresses and telephone numbers. Using computers requires a dab of risk taking. A person must learn what is a reasonable risk, what is truly risky and what is nonsense.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3442
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr 2011, 04:25    Post_subject:  

Your security is already cracked before you load Puppy.

How many use phones in Wi-Fi hotspot?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/25/wifi-security-flaw-smartphones-risk

" Not only could the information be used to steal identities, hijack email accounts and commit fraud but also to gather information about individuals and company employees. With the information gained in our investigation, fraudsters could have bought goods online or sent multiple e-gift vouchers worth as much as £1,000 each to pre-set email addresses. It is believed that such vouchers are already being traded by crooks over the internet. '

/////////

Better if we developed a Hotspot Shield alternative.

http://hotspotshield.com/


Chris.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr 2011, 04:36    Post_subject:  

Chris thanks for those links but the Hotspotshield has this text.

quote

9. Third-Party Transactions.

9.1 Advertisements. AnchorFree may deliver third-party advertisements ("Advertisements") within the content of any web page accessed. Advertisements may be injected into the top of the page, inserted directly into the page content, or even displayed to overlay the page.

You hereby acknowledge and consent that AnchorFree may alter the content of any web page accessed for the purpose of displaying Advertisements.


Additionally from time to time, AnchorFree may prevent any user's access to the product or continued use thereof until such user has successfully participated in applicable advertising programs, surveys, or other activities that collect and monetize users' personal information.

AnchorFree does not endorse any information, materials, products, or services contained in or accessible through Advertisements.
...
/quote

I mean wow they "may" alter pages with content from their Third parties.
That is not something one want. They even say if one don't give them evidence that one read these then one are not shown what one wanted to read.

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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr 2011, 06:56    Post_subject:  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8478586/Apple-promises-fix-for-iPhone-tracking-bug.html

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/28/technology/iphone_location/?section=money_latest
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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 540

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr 2011, 07:50    Post_subject:  

Ok, you have all convinced me that running as root does not matter. As I said in the third post, "You may not want it, I might not want it, but some people do want it".

This is about adding a bit of security (some people feel it adds some, you have all proven them wrong) and giving *some* users what they want. Some people don't want to run as root. I don't see why we make them.
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9214
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr 2011, 10:44    Post_subject:  

noryb009 wrote:
I don't see why we make them.

Nobody is making anybody do anything. If someone doesn't want to run as root, they can get another Linux. It's as simple as that.

Or they can run their browser as non-root, if that makes them feel safer.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr 2011, 16:28    Post_subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
noryb009 wrote:
I don't see why we make them.

Nobody is making anybody do anything. If someone doesn't want to run as root, they can get another Linux. It's as simple as that.


In any distro a person can damage or delete his user files.

In a frugal install, periodic backups of the pupsave file are recommend.

Deleting or damaging system files would be hard. If the user thinks he
deleted them, it is only a virtual delete and easy to get them back.

Conversely, with conventional type installs, the system files can be
compromised or deleted.

~

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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 540

PostPosted: Thu 28 Apr 2011, 18:54    Post_subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
noryb009 wrote:
I don't see why we make them.

Nobody is making anybody do anything. If someone doesn't want to run as root, they can get another Linux. It's as simple as that.


This is one thing about linux - specialty. Puppy is one of the best supporters of old hardware, but it doesn't have user support. Debian has user support, but it only releases once every few years. Red Hat has tons of support, but it costs a yearly fee to use. The Canterbury Project was a step forward - and it was an April Fools joke!

rcrsn51 wrote:
Or they can run their browser as non-root, if that makes them feel safer.


And the number of people who know this, without spending hours on this forum?
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 04:29    Post_subject:  

noryb009 wrote:
And the number of people who know this [spot], without spending hours on this forum?


I've not heard Windows users complain about running as a privileged user.

The Linux command adduser is fundamental. Spot is incidental. If you didn't
know about adduser, why not? Or maybe better asked, who's responsible?

~

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mickee


Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Saskatoon SK Canada, Gateway 5300 Laptop, 600MHz Celeron, 384MB RAM, lucid puppy 5.2 (Full Install)

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 12:58    Post_subject:  

Bruce B wrote:
noryb009 wrote:
And the number of people who know this [spot], without spending hours on this forum?


I've not heard Windows users complain about running as a privileged user.



Exactly, for Pre Vista. On my Win 7 box, I run as a Standard User, and have my admin account when I need it. Being Windows, I find a (false) sense of security, in believing that things won't get by UAC or my eyes... but you know what? The nasties still get on my PC on rare occasions. I feel quite safe using puppy as root, and I do have browsesafe I use when I know I am going on a suspicious site.

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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 540

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 15:18    Post_subject:  

Bruce B wrote:
noryb009 wrote:
And the number of people who know this [spot], without spending hours on this forum?


I've not heard Windows users complain about running as a privileged user.

The Linux command adduser is fundamental. Spot is incidental. If you didn't
know about adduser, why not? Or maybe better asked, who's responsible?


I've heard Linux users complain about running as a privileged user.

Of course, the new user who has never used linux before is to blame! How dare they use linux without knowing all the commands, syntax for the commands, and assembler?
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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 17:20    Post_subject:  

noryb009 wrote:

Of course, the new user who has never used linux before is to blame! How dare they use linux without knowing all the commands, syntax for the commands, and assembler?

A person really should know the basic commands and the syntax for those commands (but not assembler) before using any operating system. When my wife finally got her own computer rather than sharing mine the first thing she did was buy a copy of Windows XP for Dummies and read it cover to cover. She learned some things I didn’t know after using Windows since 3.1. Anyone new to Linux should get something like Running Linux, Linux Pocket Guide or Linux for Dummies and read it cover to cover. If she doesn’t she will remain a Dummy.

Although this forum treats Dummies well what it ends up with are Dummies who only know how to follow recipes -- follow steps 1, 2, 3 and 4 to accomplish A or do this and this and this to make your system do B. These Dummies then think they know how to do something in Puppy or worse yet in Linux and they’ll try it on a friend’s computer and destroy it because all they know is a recipe that works only on their own machine and their own software version.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 17:25    Post_subject:  

Although this forum treats Dummies well what it ends up with are Dummies who only know how to follow recipes -- follow steps 1, 2, 3 and 4 to accomplish A or do this and this and this to make your system do B.

These Dummies then think they know how to do something in Puppy or worse yet in Linux and they’ll try it on a friend’s computer and destroy it because all they know is a recipe that works only on their own machine and their own software version.

Bernie is right on! Smile

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mickee


Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Saskatoon SK Canada, Gateway 5300 Laptop, 600MHz Celeron, 384MB RAM, lucid puppy 5.2 (Full Install)

PostPosted: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 18:56    Post_subject:  

Bernie_by_the_Sea wrote:


Although this forum treats Dummies well what it ends up with are Dummies who only know how to follow recipes -- follow steps 1, 2, 3 and 4 to accomplish A or do this and this and this to make your system do B. These Dummies then think they know how to do something in Puppy or worse yet in Linux and they’ll try it on a friend’s computer and destroy it because all they know is a recipe that works only on their own machine and their own software version.


Guilty. (of being a Linux/Puppy dummy Embarassed )

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