New page on Puppy and the OLPC project

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BarryK
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New page on Puppy and the OLPC project

#1 Post by BarryK »

See this:
http://www.puppyos.com/olpc/

Puppy-Publicists, see to it that this page gets known about in the right places!

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klhrevolutionist
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spread the news

#2 Post by klhrevolutionist »

Very good! However at the bottom it reads "Coomunity-supported Puppy home: http://www.puppylinux.org " Community is mispelled.

If you could somehow put up a "mail to a friend" box, then we could make this article news-worthy. Anyway, I will send that to as many people as I can.
Heaven is on the way, until then let's get the truth out!

ndujoe1
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OLPC

#3 Post by ndujoe1 »

Right on, Barry !

raffy
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Thanks

#4 Post by raffy »

Yes, that is well-done as usual by Barry.

Will add that link to the PuppyLinux page I've built in the OLPC wiki:
http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php/PuppyLinux

Will also write Walter of OLPC, and desktoplinux.com so they can add the link to the OLPC/Puppy Linux news item (or create a new item).

Cheers!

EDIT: Article composed for desktoplinux.com (feel free to circulate):
Barry Kauler Breaks His Silence About the OLPC

Puppy Linux and the OLPC has been in the news last month, see http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8245709338.html

While enthusiasts of the distro have written some news media, such as desktoplinux.com and news.com, Puppy's original developer, Barry Kauler, has been silent.

During this time, the OLPC wiki has picked up activity (see http://wiki.laptop.org ) and entries about Puppy Linux as a ready OS for OLPC have begun appearing. Still, Barry Kauler was silent.

But this changed in the evening of May 13, 2006, with Barry's article on Puppy Linux and OLPC at http://www.puppyos.com/olpc/

Having not received any prototype of the OLPC, Barry nonetheless made tests on the closest twin of OLPC, Devon IT's NTA terminal that has a 433MHz VIA Eden CPU and a 128M Compact Flash card, and observed that "with Puppy the responsiveness is mostly immediate. Everything happens in a fraction of a second, and it feels like a 2GHz CPU running XP".

Barry also presented a long list of applications that are included in Puppy Linux's 60-70 MB ISO, and noted that the distro has not yet reached its limit, adding that, "I can very easily put in more major applications, still within the limits of the OLPC hardware".

This article by Barry Kauler is likely to spark a lively debate among OLPC proponents, and force them to finally make a stand about the possible role of Puppy Linux in the project. OLPC's organization is a nonprofit association (see http://laptop.org ), and a potential contributor to its success like Puppy Linux certainly merits invitation to its membership. Whether OLPC will do this for Barry Kauler and Puppy Linux is a good event to watch out for.
Last edited by raffy on Mon 15 May 2006, 02:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Added to digg

#5 Post by Lobster »

I have posted it here (sorry I can not work out the exact address . . .)
http://digg.com/linux_unix/digg

Please Digg it 8)
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Demos

#6 Post by raffy »

Enthusiasts can replicate Barry's effort and demonstrate Puppy in machines with about 400 Mhz CPU power and 128 MB RAM - the equivalent specs of the OLPC machine.

In doing so, we promote not only Puppy but also assure the public that the OLPC machine (and Linux) is not slow.

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#7 Post by marksouth2000 »

So, Barry, when do the rest of us get to have a go at breaking this 13th May snapshot of which you speak? :twisted:

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#8 Post by Pizzasgood »

I'm actually using a 450 MHz machine with 256 MB of ram, and have been since I first got Puppy over a year ago. Run's great. Abiword gets slightly skippy when scrolling, but all-in-all the whole thing is pretty rock-solid. I've only crashed it when doing things I shouldn't, which normal people would never even approach doing. Other than Abiword (which, skippiness aside, still runs better than Word, the ant doesn't crash but the paperclip does), everything runs as fast as any other computer I've ever used. Faster in many cases, especially Rox 1.2.2. Rox 2.4.1 is at least as fast as any normal filemanager, but 1.2.2 seems like it's changing before I've even clicked the icon, and done before I'm finished.

In fact, I tend to forget that I'm using such an "old" processor since I've started using Puppy. I initially saw those specs and though it seemed like it would be slow. The I remembered that that's nearly what I have, and my first thought was "Dang, that Puppy is fast."

As for the software, I'm still amazed. Not that Puppy is so small, but that the other OS's are so big. If they suddenly came out and said, "Yo, what once took 200 MB now fits in 60," just think how much publicity they'd get. They'd probably wet themselves. Yet that's exactly what Puppy does (compresses, not wets itself...). I know, I've taken it apart. With the whole filesystem extracted, it was around 190 megabytes. Compressed, it's about 60. All I can say to that is "Bam!"
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Word is out

#9 Post by raffy »

First the good news: see desktoplinux.com - there is an article about this development. To post comments, go to the Forum thread suggested by the site.

Now the bad, from the OLPC wiki:

http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php/Specia ... nges[quote]
16 May 2006

* (Deletion log); 09:09 . . Krstic (Talk | contribs) (deleted "PuppyLinux": Page does not belong on this wiki; we will not be supporting or shipping PuppyLinux.)
* (diff) (hist) . . Getting involved in OLPC; 09:09 . . Krstic (Talk | contribs) (puppylinux doesn't belong on this page; we won't be shipping or supporting it.)

Portion deleted (aside from the whole PuppyLinux page):

**[[PuppyLinux|Puppy]] Linux, a 60-MB OS cum software suite complete with software for daily use, now version 1.08 at http://puppylinux.org
[/quote]
Here is the original version of the deleted PuppyLinux page.

Krstic has no profile in the wiki, but I searched and found this article as possible clue to the identity.

Here are related software development news: SDK announcement and kit.

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Excerpt of Ivan Krstic's Mail

#10 Post by raffy »

Ivan Krstic, replying to my question, "Would you have some advice or comments to make in the direction of Barry Kauler and his co-enthusiasts?":
I think PuppyLinux is a really neat project. As you'll notice, I kept its paragraph intact on the Other Ideas page of the OLPC wiki; my problem with keeping it on the Getting Involved page is that it may easily mislead potential contributors to believe we're developing, supporting, or deploying Puppy. The deletions I made certainly shouldn't be taken to mean I harbor any ill will against the project -- on the contrary.

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Changing Official Stand About OS for OLPC

#11 Post by raffy »

This will log current policy about the OS for OLPC as published in the OLPC Wiki.

As of May 24:

The proposed $100 machine will be Linux-based

It is true that the first prototypes run Fedora Linux, however other systems have also been considered and could be loaded later.

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Discussion is Picking Up

#12 Post by raffy »

Someone (Dhbarr) started recreating the PuppyLinux page in the OLPC wiki, and by now there are new posts there as well as in the discussion page (while in the PuppyLinux page, just click on the "discussion" tab to view the discussion).

Localization is an area currently being pushed in the discussion.

Edit: As of June 4, there is a "Minimal Linux Distros" page at the wiki with links to the PuppyLinux page and Barry's article.
Last edited by raffy on Mon 05 Jun 2006, 01:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Useful News About Hardware

#13 Post by raffy »

From the OLPC Community News of June 4, 2006:
Marvell released a new version of their Linux driver for the 88W8388 and an additional OLPC-specific version of the firmware; and a common source-code management methodology was agreed between Marvell and the Red Hat team so that the driver can be merged with the mainstream Linux kernel tree.
We can make use of this hardware for wireless in Puppy.

As to video driver, the AMD GX2 processor has built-in video (?) so this quote is useful, too:
a fbdev (framebuffer video) driver appeared in Linus Torvald's tree that may be appropriate for the GX2 and awaits testing; if it works, this will reduce the driver work to be done.
Of course you would be surprised to hear news about software that
... we are close to reaching the goal of using only 512K of flash...
Puppy fans can smile at this. :wink:

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What Puppy folks can do

#14 Post by memracom »

Quite frankly, the idea of using Puppy as the base OS for the OLPC isn't going to go anywhere. They need a big organization like RedHat to support them and they need that organization to be in America so they can meet more easily when needed. It means that they have to do a lot of work subtracting and slimming down, but that is the path they have chosen.

Puppy folks could help by pointing out areas where they could do some further subtraction and slimming on Fedora. Or, possibly by contributing slimmer replacements for some bits.

But the main way Puppy folks can help is to port Sugar to Puppy and offer a Puppy ISO with Sugar included. That way, Puppy could become the easy choice for application developers. Some people have tried to install Sugar on Ubuntu but failed even though there are instructions on the OLPC wiki. If I knew that Puppy had Sugar included and that Puppy developers were tracking new Sugar releases, then I would use Puppy for my development.

Another thing is to test Puppy on various other limited devices like the NTAVO and the Flepo Mini PC1 http://www.barebone-online.de/index.php/cPath/66_68

Developers don't need a machine identical to OLPC in order to do development. Most of their testing could be done on another minimal system. Then when the app has passed those tests, publish it so that people who do have access to OLPC hardware can validate the app on the OLPC.

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Humble innovation

#15 Post by raffy »

Puppy used to be low-key and humble until the "Linux is bloated" news was floated by OLPC's top brass in April 2006. From that point on, Puppy could no longer just keep silent about OLPC, so Puppy enthusiasts began visiting the OLPC wiki and putting entries there about Puppy.

We welcome your arrival in the Puppy Forum and are glad that you are giving us updates about the important developments at OLPC.

Cheers!

PS - We always try to be humble but stick to the facts. If ever Puppy is posting achievements that are still on the drawing board of OLPC, it is because the Puppy project had three productive years already (by June 18, 2006), thanks to Barry Kauler and co-developers.

Readers, please see also this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=8574

EDIT: Fixed the old forum URL.
Last edited by raffy on Wed 28 Nov 2007, 02:06, edited 1 time in total.

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One Laptop Per Child Revisited:

#16 Post by mcewanw »

From the One Laptop Per Child wiki:

"“One laptop per child

Phoenix
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Sugar and Kernel

#17 Post by Phoenix »

I own a XO-1 from the G1G1 project. I would like to share my opinions based on my personal experience.

As noble or not the instance on purity of code from proprietary sources and pedagogy of a new take on computing, the XO-1 in the real world is getting hung by these ideals stuck in vain pride. The journal is a lie. Under the sugar shell is a file system as on any other computer. When you upload files to the net, you need to know this file system. Keeping a sugar coating on the facts is not promoting self guided learning. It is the folly of a parental stance that the children should be distanced from real code. The turtle can not handle more than two variables and two procedures. The TamTam does not have a full scale. In the end the tutorials in English on Youtube have been placed beyond the capacity of the XO-1 as shipped. There should be language software and not a fake avoidance of language, with English still silently expected.

Developers of Puppy Linux, please to not heed the advice of mcewanw. Sugar makes the OX-1 slow, and for the end user unreliable. Sugar will delete a picture that you just took if you do not give enough time and wait for the picture to be considered permanent. Save and open are often missing features of it's implementation. This is not a benefit to any child. The slowness of python as the main programming language wastes energy, harming the environment. Euphoria should be the programming language. http://www.rapideuphoria.com/ Framebuffer UI should be the graphical user interface. http://home.comcast.net/~fbui/

There is much that is wonderful about the XO-1; the camera is readily available; the screen has a good quality image; the build is durable and capable of withstanding earths environment. Yes, the keyboard is small, but it is not a high price to pay at all. What is unacceptable is a result of pride. In order to use the computer for a person not surrounded by other XO-1 users upgrades to Opera, Firefox, a full Abiword are required. Once installed one recognizes the blight caused by the instance of python activities and sugar journalizing. If Puppy can be placed on the XO-1 it would be a savior. I know how pleased I was when I booted up old laptops with Puppy, the speed and sense of security. My files were now safe from the bloat of Microsoft. XO-1 files are not safe from Sugar's journalizing. Any file can be considered too large or not looked at for long enough and deleted by Sugar. XO-1 does not need a Puppy coated in Sugar, XO-1 needs puppy as he is.

Here is a link I found on rebuilding the OLPC kernel. I hope it helps.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Kernel
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Rebuilding_OLPC_kernel
Also some internal config files
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Olpc-utils

I tried to change the olpc.fth as presented here.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Custom_bootloader

Here is what I learned.
Case 1:
Setting
" u:\boot\initrd.gz" to ramdisk
boot u:\boot\vmlinuz root=sda1
having initrd.gz and vmlinuz from puppy linux in the usb drive, which seems to be all that is required by the instruction. Will freeze the XO-1.

Case 2:
Replacing the initrd.gz with the olpcrd.img found in XO-1, will start the boot but choke on a panic kernel not found.

Case 3:
If both the ramdisk and vmlinuz are replaced by the XO-1, version but the root is still set sda1, the boot gets hung when it tries to mount sda1.

Case 4:
\ space after slash
" n:\boot\olpcrd.img" to ramdisk
boot n:\boot\vmlinuz root=mtd0

is all that is needed for a boot from olpc.fth. But what you have is a reduced olpc.fth and not puppy on the xo. Also a little less secure without the back upfeatured in the orginal.

I prefer the smaller font, I can see more of the lines.

I wish you the best of luck. I do look forward to the day that there is a version of Puppy that works on the XO-1.

Here is another link that may be of help.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Category:XO_startup

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#18 Post by BarryK »

I am now experimenting with the 2.6.27.x kernel, which is "OLPC aware".

I do have a OLPC that has been sitting there for sometime, so I will probably get back to trying Puppy (or Woof) on it soon.
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#19 Post by cb88 »

It knows!!!! O.o

run for your lives people! it has viral p2p networking skynet is coming!

it will beat you to death with it's flip up antennae!
Taking Puppy Linux to the limit of perfection. meanwhile try "puppy pfix=duct_tape" kernel parem eater.
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quickboot
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OLPC XO-1 running Puppy Linux

#20 Post by quickboot »

Barry and community,

THANK YOU for Puppy! It is wonderful, rapid and practical!

Up until a few weeks ago, my G1G1 (Give one, Get one) XO laptop had been collecting dust. That's when my beloved, 400mHz IBM Thinkpad finally died. With Puppy, this baby would boot in about 40 seconds and it blew the pants off the newest computers (with 3 gHz processors!) with its quick boot time and noticibly faster application launch times.

Yes, I have personally witnessed Puppy being responsible for converting several Microsoft users to Linux.

In theory, Puppy should be even faster on my OLPC XO-1, since its hardware specifications are faster than my IBM Thinkpad's. However so far, I have failed miserably in all my attempts to get Puppy running on my XO-- Despite using the latest version and attempting many of the alternate boot scenarios that Phoenix described.

The last several weeks have been both frustrating and wonderful. The XO laptop gets the most insane amount of attention everywhere I take it, however its 2 minute boot time and slow Sugar interface is practically rather limiting. Even using Debian, or simply XFCE, it is still sluggish.

TODAY, Amazon has just launched the G1G1 program for OLPC (www.amazon.com/xo). With Puppy, I think we have a real opportunity to turn the XO into a truly functional laptop for G1G1 participants and thus help the OLPC program grow with positive visibility.

From my perspective, it is all about speed and practical functionality:
Rapid boot time, flexible wifi management (like wifi-radar), and a lean suite of programs that can: Surf rapid and leanly (like Opera?), AbiWord (or rapid equiv.), gNumeric (or lean spreadsheet equiv.), a lean PDF viewer and preferably a LEAN presentation program that is Office 97 compatible.

I have absolutely no doubt that you guys can make this happen. I'm still figuring out the basic Linux commands. We XO owners just have to provide encouragement and reassurance that we don't expect perfection. We're not expecting full power management or Python functionality. Simply quick boot and business basics will turn the XO into a mean machine!

Thank you!

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