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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
The Official Release of Lucid 5.25 (Lucid Five Twenty-Five)
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gjuhasz


Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 06:12    Post subject: Switchable R/ RW booting media  

01micko wrote:

Well you can't really as the media is rw ... you can boot from an SD card they have the little switch on the side to make them read only (aka ro).


I propose to implement what the today's Slackware release offers as switchable boot media.

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06607

I admit this is too late for Lupu 522 but 01micko could easily try it in Slackpup...
hit1day.jpg
 Description   Slackware in the today's DistroWatch hitlist
 Filesize   30.62 KB
 Viewed   1308 Time(s)

hit1day.jpg

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 06:48    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
nooby wrote:

How can we duplicate that to USB for us that have no CD nor DVD player such as on Netbook Acer D250 10" sized mini laptops?

Why can not a usb be made safe that way? Or a frugal on the hdd install?


Well you can't really as the media is rw (though I guess with some clever code it could be done as rw Confused ). However, if you can boot from an SD card they have the little switch on the side to make them read only (aka ro) . I read somewhere on the forum that this works as far as booting puppy and running in RAM, though this was awhile ago. I'm feeling a bit lazy so sorry no link! Razz


Yes and some more expensive USB Flash maybe have a switch on the side that make it to ro read only too?

But as with Linux in general one need permissisons to do things.

Could one not tell Puppy to boot on the USB and then say that only puppy script are allow to write changes to it and not any program that start. So that one keep the ability save important changes like installing a pet but not save programs that are not puppy. Maleware and virus programs is recognized as not being downloaded using the built in internal scripts like a PPM or such? Thus none such bad code would be saved to teh USB?

I guess when one know too little one naively think it is easy when in practice there is no structure allowing it to be easily set up?

Thanks for sharing thoughts on it.

Haha we have to tell the USB makers that we want an USB that behave like the CD/DVD media Smile

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 06:59    Post subject:  

gjuhasz "I propose to implement what the today's Slackware release offers as switchable boot media. "

Where do they tell about that? The text says they boot with floppy. I have no floppy to boot with. I don't even have CD/DVD so how do I use this
"switchable boot media. " thing.

What exactly are you referring to?

From a review very lately.

Quote:
For those who haven't run Slackware previously, it's something of a minimalist affair. You begin by booting from the CD or DVD, and are dropped into a root prompt. From there, if you need to format your disk you can choose between fdisk or the slightly more user-friendly cfdisk to partition your disk. Then you can run the Slackware setup utility, which walks through the installation of package sets.


don't they tell how do do frugal install?

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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3402
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 08:05    Post subject:  

One thing that annoys me with newer Pups.

I can't save anywhere else but the USB.

I've tried Shinobar's version....and most times I've been happy.

But I had a problem here...my last post...and only Hirens got it
booting again. I spent hours with it.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=58305&start=30

Now at least the Falcon boots Vista-Win7 ERD without error.

So I have multi....multi Puppies.

None of the Puppy 5 versions let me select any other partition
or drive...only USB.
It really pees me off....why this behaviour?
What is so different..

But it has been enjoyable.

The last one I tried was Puppy Arcade 10.
And he has Shinobar's ??? Pupsave the GUI???
And because it is Puppy 4.2.1 based it gives me all the options.

If someone can't get their USB to boot, go to my post.

Instructions and the menu is there.

The folder names are there.

Hiren's utilities are all there.

As long as you extract all your files with 7 zip etc,
to the correct folders...it just works.

//////

And 7 zip.

Why don't we have something simple that works.

FRRRRRRRRRRRustrating.

It's woeful. A dog's dinner.
Sorry...it had to be said.

At least i can reboot into the falcon to extract it in Mini Windows.

""""""""""

Next.
I saw a post by HiDeHo.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=64525

"Hi my grub 2 experiences are as follows.

many os use grub 2 not just ubuntu this is only a guide you may need to change thing if using a separate brub2 /boot partition or another os with grub2

I wanted to create a custom grub loader with all the puppy boot options in it. i do it this way so that the main grub2 boot screen is not 1000s of lines long as each puppy needs its own entries this makes it easier and less colcated doing things this way.

from my ubuntu install i did this

i created a config file with the options in my puppy linux folder.

/dev/sda3/Puppy520/grub2.cfg

#This is a config file to get grub to boot puppy linux.
menuentry 'LUPUP 5.2.0 BOOT OPTIONS' {
insmod
set root
linux
intird
}
menuentry '01. Puppy Linux' {
insmod ext2
set root='(hd0,3)'
linux /Puppy520/vmlinuz psubdir=Puppy520
initrd /Puppy520/initrd.gz

and so on.

////////////

So I had another go, tried different things, to get my boot options
back in a working Puppy USB.

And afterr many reboots...Nirvana was not reached.

""""""""

Obviously I changed his drive from >> hd0,3 to sdc1/lucid520
which works fine for me.

Considering my menu...in my Hirens link above,
is there any way to get my boot options back on my usb.

I left it out...I put it back...insmod ...it's not needed is it???
Example:

menuentry '01. Puppy Lucid 520{
insmod
set root='(sdc1/lucid520)'
linux / lucid520/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid520
initrd / lucid520/initrd.gz
}
menuentry '02. acpi=off Default on for PCs >2001, may give boot/shutdown Probs' {
insmod
set root='(sdc1/lucid520)'
linux / lucid520/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid520 puppy acpi=off
initrd / lucid520/initrd.gz
}
menuentry '03. pfix=ram Run totally in RAM ignore saved sessions' {
insmod
set root='(sdc1/lucid520)'
linux / lucid520/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid520 puppy pfix=ram
initrd / lucid520/initrd.gz
}
menuentry '04. pfix=nox commandline only, do not start x' {
insmod
set root='(sdc1/lucid520)'
linux / lucid520/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid520 puppy pfix=nox
initrd / lucid520/initrd.gz
}
menuentry '05. pfix=copy copy .sfs files to RAM (slower boot, faster running)' {
insmod
set root='(sdc1/lucid520)'
linux / lucid520/vmlinuz psubdir=lucid520 puppy pfix=copy
initrd / lucid520/initrd.gz
}

///////

So ideas to get the F2 menu options back.

Thanks....Chris.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 08:18    Post subject:  

But grub2 needs to be installed using an OS that have grub2 as the install boot option to set up that way.

I don't think one can use puppy to install grub2 so easily.
How did you accomplish that clever set up?

I guess I need to use google to find out what a Falcon is.
Nope too many answers to really be sure I know what it is.

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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 08:27    Post subject:  

cthisbear

You say:

One thing that annoys me with newer Pups.

I can't save anywhere else but the USB.


I am not sure I understand what you are talking about.

My puppy 5s let me put a pupsave file on sda5, which is an IDE hard drive.

Your problem must be something specific to your setup.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 08:47    Post subject:  

cthisbear if you do puppy pfix=ram then the software should be able to ask where you want to save.

if it fail to mount the HDD and present it as somewhere to save to then it is formatted with a specification that it does not recognize?

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5096
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 09:48    Post subject:  

Problem with uninstalling Pidgin braking a full install of Lucid 5.2
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=66443
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cowboy


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 247
Location: North America; the Western Hemisphere; Yonder

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 10:22    Post subject:  

playdayz wrote:

I was able to get Sylpheed too cowboy. That minute and a half has got to be a good clue for someone on the sound. Firewallstate comes up slowly--it could be blocking. delayedrun could take a while to finish--those are just wild guesses. We probably couldn't change anything now though unless it was a slam dunk (famous last words Wink Is your 521RC a fresh install?



Yes sir, fresh install from Live CD to savefile on USB stick. ext3 savefile format, usb stick formatted vfat. Don't think I'd fool with it now - sound does work for most people, even if it takes a bit of fiddling, or a bit of waiting. The clues might be useful, as you say, down the road. Thank you.

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gjuhasz


Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 11:12    Post subject: Slackware joke  

nooby wrote:
What exactly are you referring to?


The referenced Slackware "release" is really the release of the day. In other words, an April 1 release Very Happy .
My part of the joke was only creating the "Last day's hitlist" picture. Sorry if I misled anybody Razz
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 11:15    Post subject:  

At least one of us got totally fooled. I will not tell you whom though. Too embarrassing. Smile I am a slacker but not so much into slackware
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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 11:59    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
At least one of us got totally fooled. I will not tell you whom though. Too embarrassing. Smile I am a slacker but not so much into slackware


Nooby;

You haven't even started to "get" slack.

http://www.subgenius.com/

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RandSec

Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 81
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 12:02    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
Quote:
The firewall needs to be up by default before the first network transaction is allowed. (Originally, that would be me, RandSec.)

Not quite. Only if your machine(s) has/have already been cloned.

Those old network attacks were not simply a response to user error, but were actually able to reach in from the net and exploit issues that would otherwise have been hidden. At one time, the Microsoft Windows worms were a vast plague, which stopped dead with the release of XP SP2, where the firewall was enabled by default. Before that, the firewall had been available, just not enabled, and that made the difference.

The old tricks are being recycled all the time. And if somebody takes a particular dislike to Linux or Puppy for some reason, we could have problems. With modern malware techniques, it may be difficult for us to even see those problems. We depend upon the OS to report processes, files, and data content, but when malware runs it owns the OS, and lies to the user. (Malware LIES, imagine that! Now imagine it owning the OS.) Nowadays, in Microsoft Windows, it may not be possible to even see the malware files, or to see changes in those files, from within the owned machine. We want to avoid those games.

Quote:
That is only likely if you've already done something stupid, eg like opening obviously bent emails from people you've never heard of, trying to buy V-i-a-g-r-a online (just when will the Yankies learn to institute a proper NHS service?!)or visiting porn sites (your wife knows about this?!). There are those around who are dumb enough to dual boot with other OS es.

Getting the user to open or even run a Trojan attachment is the way it used to be, and certainly is a continuing issue. On Windows, much of the recent problem has been .PDF attachment Trojans, but the attack of the day changes as any particular technique becomes ineffective. Recently, hundreds of thousands of otherwise ordinary web sites were subverted to take browsers to malware pages. Usually, the Firefox add-on NoScript offers good protection for this, but the OS is not much involved in that fight. One possible exception might be a recent trend toward exploiting Java, which is cross-platform and thus a significant risk even for Linux.

One of the larger lessons from malware in Microsoft Windows is that once infected, the OS needs to be re-installed. On a hard-drive system, infection changes boot and run-up data to restart the malware each time. So far, so good, since we might re-install just that. But when malware runs it contacts a botmaster who can do anything at all in the machine. Since it is not possible to know what the botmaster has changed, recovery in place simply cannot be guaranteed, and our old friend the OS is not what we knew before and cannot be trusted in any way. Thus, the motive for DVD booting, which essentially does re-install the OS on every session. But with modern malware we may not even know when we have been infected.

Anti-virus scanning for particular malware files is no longer effective for a range of reasons, but for one thing, modern malware can "encrypt" the infection files. Even if the infection-dropper is found, scanning will not be finding the real malware. When malware leaves something around for scanning to find, it has made a mistake. So, if we find anything at all, we need to re-install the OS. The real problem is that when done properly, we really do not have tools to show that a malware infection exists.

As an alternative to scanning, we can imagine checking each and every OS file for existence and correctness, necessarily from a different OS instance (since this one may have been subverted). By booting from CD, an appropriate program could check that every required OS file exists on the target drive, and that it produces the correct hash value. That would be just a first step, of course.

Quote:
How many times? Buy a pair of caddies. HDs are cheap. One per user. If the other person screws up on their HD that's their problem. But, with Puppy, even that expedient is overkill - use one machine per person. People dispose of machines perfectly able to run Puppy. You don't need multi-cores, etc, etc. That's what this is all about. If you want bells, whistles and go-faster stripes you deserve all you get.
And stop bugging our clever developers to make this compact distro run the latest and greatest gadgets that don't even run on the supplied driver for you-know-who's OS.

I recommend each user have their own boot DVD+RW. That still does not get me out of maintaining each one in the house, and configuring for the wife.

Actually, it might be a REALLY GOOD IDEA to make some sort of translation interface that would allow drivers for Windows to be loaded and used efficiently in Puppy.

Last edited by RandSec on Fri 01 Apr 2011, 14:01; edited 1 time in total
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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 12:15    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
Quote:
It's only happening on this Dell 700m; Luci-Lupu wifi are stable on
the PowerSpec pc.
et seq.

Not a new boy around here rj, so why are you still wasting your dosh on dodgy proprietary cr*p?! You know that Dellboy and his cohorts get up to all sorts of leverage trickery with their boxes to save a few cents and garner favour with the Beast of Redmond. Not enough proverbial six-year olds in your neighbourhood to build proper kit from eg NewEgg or Anand?

If you're stuck with junk HW, esp. if there are BIOS issues, you can try searching for the actual Chinese manufacturer of the board and flash to the generic BIOS. Works for me when I'm gifted with defective proprietary stuff.


???
What is all this blustery brewhaha?
The 700m is a laptop, not a pc.
It's an outstanding puppy machine.

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playdayz


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 3788

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2011, 12:20    Post subject:  

Lucid Five Twenty-Five

A Five Digit Update from Lucid 5.2
The Ultimate Expression of the Lucid Vision

What we need is a quick sanity check. There are so few changes, just make sure it does the obvious, boots, installs, runs. Who's awake and online? Maybe we can have a release when the Aussies wake up!!!

In the first message. Thanks.
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