Session is 'always' saved -not good

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dru5k1
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Session is 'always' saved -not good

#1 Post by dru5k1 »

Hi, I'm seeing this problem in 5.2 - running live (cd) with a usb save-file

Puppy will save the session automatically at shutdown, unless you uncomment this action in /etc/rc.d/rc.shutdown - which results in an ugly Xorg error at each bootup

When using puppy live and you make a save-file, you get a 'save' icon on the desktop -so if you install a program or make some web-bookmarks, you can click that and save the changes (you know, this takes half a minute). But the problem is that if you make some kind of blunder requiring a reboot - well puppy automatically 'saves' your blunder, and that is a problem

I've looked at "Puppy Event Manager" and chosen PUPMODE 0, but the answer is not there -still a save at shutdown.. The rc.shutdown fix is an ugly one, and I think that Puppy should do this (no saving unless you say so) in a clean and tidy way

I hope you agree.

jamesbond
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#2 Post by jamesbond »

dru5k1 - automatic "save session" is what puppy is designed for. It's neither a problem or a bug.

The big red "save" button - it is only there when one runs puppy on top of flash drives (or multisession-DVD I think), and it's not for what you think --- because puppy always saves session at the end of session, even if you never click that big red button.

If you want to disable this behaviour, then you'll have to modify puppy. There are a few threads in this forum dedicated to that, all you need to do is use google to search for it.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=disab ... =firefox-a.
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Re: Session is 'always' saved -not good

#3 Post by dawg »

dru5k1 wrote:Hi, I'm seeing this problem in 5.2 - running live (cd) with a usb save-file

Puppy will save the session automatically at shutdown, unless you uncomment this action in /etc/rc.d/rc.shutdown - which results in an ugly Xorg error at each bootup

When using puppy live and you make a save-file, you get a 'save' icon on the desktop -so if you install a program or make some web-bookmarks, you can click that and save the changes (you know, this takes half a minute). But the problem is that if you make some kind of blunder requiring a reboot - well puppy automatically 'saves' your blunder, and that is a problem

I've looked at "Puppy Event Manager" and chosen PUPMODE 0, but the answer is not there -still a save at shutdown.. The rc.shutdown fix is an ugly one, and I think that Puppy should do this (no saving unless you say so) in a clean and tidy way

I hope you agree.
AGREE ABSOLUTELY! It has bothered me too, and I may have complained before. I'm slightly perplexed as to why, unlike all the other useful saving options, this one's never been implemented by default...
I used to only like Puppy as a friend, but now I think our relationship is starting to develop into something more... :D

bwh1969
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i also agree

#4 Post by bwh1969 »

There is a fix for you to have it prompt you at shutdown. Fluppy makes this happen (or at least it used to), and even gives it a timeout, and if you don't say yes within 60 seconds, it will just shut down with no save.

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jemimah
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#5 Post by jemimah »

The only time it's completely safe to save is during shutdown, after all user processes are killed. Otherwise you run the small risk of saving a file at the same time it's being written to which can result in file corruption. Saving during shutdown ensures that all files are cleanly saved.

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pemasu
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#6 Post by pemasu »

http://shino.pos.to/linux/puppy/pupsaveconfig-1.9.9.pet

It has option with frugal installs not to save at shutdown.

EDIT: ok, it works only if you dont use savefile already.
Like pfix=ram or new install.
My mistake, sorry.

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dru5k1
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#7 Post by dru5k1 »

hmm

if you make some kind of blunder requiring a reboot - well puppy automatically 'saves' your blunder, and that is a problem

Jasper

#8 Post by Jasper »

Hi guys,

I have deleted my original post here.

On reflection it was probably only helpful with a frugal install.

My regards
Last edited by Jasper on Thu 17 Mar 2011, 21:41, edited 1 time in total.

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pemasu
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#9 Post by pemasu »


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Dougal
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Re: Session is 'always' saved -not good

#10 Post by Dougal »

dru5k1 wrote:Puppy will save the session automatically at shutdown, unless you uncomment this action in /etc/rc.d/rc.shutdown - which results in an ugly Xorg error at each bootup
...
The rc.shutdown fix is an ugly one, and I think that Puppy should do this (no saving unless you say so) in a clean and tidy way
It's not that ugly... you can just add to rc.shutdown

Code: Select all

rm /initrd/pup_ro1/etc/.XLOADED
...
It would be trivial to make this configurable (via the boot manager).
What's the ugliest part of your body?
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But I think it's your mind

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dru5k1
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#11 Post by dru5k1 »

thank you Dougal! that's really helpful

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Digital_Dissident
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Agreed- Should Ask

#12 Post by Digital_Dissident »

I just booted Wary Puppy 5.1.1 using a saved session file for the first time and, much to my chagrin, discovered this automatic saving of the session.

Is there a reason it can't ask whether you'd like to save the session, the way it does when no saved session file was invoked at boot-up? (By default)

(And also ask at the beginning whether or not to enable the periodic automatic saving that was mentioned in the other thread linked in one of the above posts ITT)

That would be much appreciated.

jamesbond
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Re: Agreed- Should Ask

#13 Post by jamesbond »

I usually don't answer to this kind of question, but today I loosen myself a little bit and swallow this bait.
Digital_Dissident wrote:I just booted Wary Puppy 5.1.1 using a saved session file for the first time and, much to my chagrin, discovered this automatic saving of the session.
Much to your chagrin eh? Tell me which other mainline operating systems that do not automatically save session? (Ubuntu, Fedora, Windows, OSX, Solaris, AIX, Android, iOS, Symbian, etc)?
Is there a reason it can't ask whether you'd like to save the session, the way it does when no saved session file was invoked at boot-up? (By default)
Because the default is, when I tell my wordprocessor to save my 200-page thesis, and the computer is *accidentally* turned off, I would expect that my thesis is still there when I restart it?
(And also ask at the beginning whether or not to enable the periodic automatic saving that was mentioned in the other thread linked in one of the above posts ITT)

That would be much appreciated.
I don't disagree that ability not-to-save session is useful - in fact, I agree its useful. But to ask why it isn't the default, is the same of asking why the default desktop background color is blue (and not green), or why the default browser is seamonkey (and not firefox, opera, dillo, surfer, etc), etc.

It's because people use their systems differently, and the designer of the OS has to make a decision one way or another. You can't satisfy everyone. If this puppy's "bug" is "corrected" the way you want it, I (for one) will be the first one (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) who will ask - "why the &^%$##@ the OS ask me whether to save everytime I shutdown? Of course I want my changes to be saved, otherwise I will always boot from LiveCD".
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nooby
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Re: Session is 'always' saved -not good

#15 Post by nooby »

Dougal wrote:
dru5k1 wrote:Puppy will save the session automatically at shutdown, unless you uncomment this action in /etc/rc.d/rc.shutdown - which results in an ugly Xorg error at each bootup
...
The rc.shutdown fix is an ugly one, and I think that Puppy should do this (no saving unless you say so) in a clean and tidy way
It's not that ugly... you can just add to rc.shutdown

Code: Select all

rm /initrd/pup_ro1/etc/.XLOADED
...
It would be trivial to make this configurable (via the boot manager).
Oh, I hope you can explain what it does, I feel too dense just now to figure it out.

How does it relate to the links that Sylvander provide here above my post?

Should he add your solution to that list?

Don't get me wrong. I love to know this I am not critical or ironic or something. I really want to know how to decide when and how and so on to save.

Yes I should do back ups but I fail to do it.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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Dougal
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Re: Session is 'always' saved -not good

#16 Post by Dougal »

nooby wrote:Oh, I hope you can explain what it does, I feel too dense just now to figure it out.
When X is started, /etc/.XLOADED is created, so if X wasn't exited properly (like the classic "fsckme" flag: on a proper shutdown it will be deleted ; if it's not deleted you know the system has crashed).
If the periodic saving is used (or if the user manually saves with snapmergepuppy), then the saving happens while X is running, thus .XLOADED is also saved to the save file (mounted on /initrd/pup_ro1), so you need to delete it or X won't automatically start on next boot.
The same happens if you backup your save file.

Another simple way to get around this is to just add to /etc/rc.d/rc.local:

Code: Select all

rm  /etc/.XLOADED
What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it's your mind

nooby
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#17 Post by nooby »

Thanks I understand it better now. One need to know what causes saves to happen to be able to jump in and somehow cheat the system to not do something one don't want it to without having to rebuilt the whole thing from scratch. a workaround a kind of soft patch by knowing what it looks for one can step in and prevent things.

Very good thanks.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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Dougal
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#18 Post by Dougal »

nooby wrote:One need to know what causes saves to happen to be able to jump in and somehow cheat the system to not do something one don't want it to without having to rebuilt the whole thing from scratch.
Note that if you back up your pup_save while running, you'll also want to first run "sync" in a terminal, to make sure all files are actually written to it.
What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it's your mind

sitdown
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#19 Post by sitdown »

Disregard this!! I dont know how this was posted on the wrong thread..

I was supposed to post on this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 6&start=15

I know it is an old thread, but i can not see any other forumthreads that do apply to my problem.

I tried first the solution for getting a option to save or not saving the session. But then did not work after several trials, i tried to disable all lines corresponding to saving the session. As it is now:

Code: Select all

#the above are in unionfs at /.
   #dialog --yesno "Save this session?" 0 0 >/dev/console
   #if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then
   #echo "Saving session to $SAVEFILE (${SAVEPART})..." >/dev/console
   #/usr/sbin/snapmergepuppy /initrd/pup_ro1 /initrd/pup_rw
   #fi
   ;;
   # Følgende 2 linjer er default setting for lagring av session, fjern linjer 
   # over til første(#):
   # :/usr/sbin/snapmergepuppy /initrd/pup_ro1 /initrd/pup_rw
   # ;;
 7) #PDEV1 and PUPSFS.
   echo "$(eval_gettext "Saving session to \${PDEV1}...")" >/dev/console
So does puppy linux still use this config file or is it something i do wrongly?

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