Puppy has produced some noticeable puplets (derivatives of Puppy that others have experimented with) 1.09 is the first attempt to bring key developers Barry, Nathan, Mu, Pizzasgood, Rarsa, Klh and others together with interested users.
It means that everyone agreed: improve icons - so they were, use Firefox, so we did. Make trash more intuitive so it is. Change leafpad to default editor and use geany. Done and done. A new menu technology allowing easy use of different window managers has been added. I used the Alpha of 1.09 all last week. It works. Yep Puppy Alpha's are sometimes better than release versions of other distros . . .
Now we meet to discuss if Rox will be updated. Bugs have been solved. We might add p2p. MU's background changer will probably be added. Eventually post Puppy2 the community will have more to do with direction and development. Barry will be going walkabout around September with laptop input and has announced his semi retirement. He has given us plenty of time. We need help. Come to tonights meeting. Join the 1.09 forum.
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy109
Puppy 1.09 Meeting 2
transscript
(00:55:55) NathanF [n=NathanF@66-101-59-13-static.dsl.oplink.net] entered the room.
(00:56:00) HueyNym: so are we moving the meeting over here?
(00:56:04) mode (+o NathanF ) by J_Rey
(00:56:04) PupUserMU: hi boss
(00:56:17) HueyNym: hi NathanF
(00:56:51) NathanF: HI everyone. Don't think of me as boss, I'm just marginally trying to coordinate everything.
(00:56:53) rarsa: I'm ready
(00:57:07) PupUserMU: you do that very good
(00:57:16) NathanF: Sorry it took so long to get here.
(00:57:36) NathanF: Is lobster coming?
(00:57:38) PupUserMU: thats ok, i just watched a nice movie
(00:57:41) rarsa: This is the first time I get on time to a meeting
(00:57:57) HueyNym: which film MU?
(00:57:59) J_Rey:
(00:58:22) budden [n=root@c-71-198-165-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] entered the room.
(00:58:32) rarsa: I just watched 'stealth' this morning. Not art really, just a weekender movie
(00:59:15) PupUserMU: vampires and werewolfes, relatively new. don't know the name. second part is in cinema currently
(01:00:10) rarsa: Is that a German movie?
(01:00:17) SitHeelSpeak [n=SitHeelS@216.227.116.171] entered the room.
(01:01:12) NathanF: OK, looks like approximately the right time. Let's get started.
(01:01:16) rarsa: Hi you all. And hi to the people that said hi when I wasn't paying attention
(01:01:26) PupUserMU: no,american
(01:01:38) PupUserMU: ok
(01:01:38) HueyNym: where's Crusty?
(01:01:54) raffyMn: Yes, hi, Rarsa. As to agenda: http://forum.puppylinux.net/viewtopic.php?t=29
(01:02:23) HueyNym: I mean Lobster
(01:02:42) rarsa: OK
(01:02:53) NathanF: Well, we should start even without the crustacean.
(01:03:02) NathanF: He can catch up.
(01:03:26) NathanF: Meeting called to order.
(01:03:34) HueyNym: Seconded
(01:03:49) NathanF: First item on the agenda is the developer's report.
(01:03:53) PupUserMU: * Developer report - Any comments from Barry, Nathan, Mu, Pizzasgood, Rarsa, Klh
(01:04:19) klhrevolutionist: well the only bug I know is the firefox bug as nathan mentioned.
(01:04:26) PupUserMU: ok, my backgroundsetter is finished. except bugs are reported.
(01:04:28) NathanF: Pizzasgood will be late, so we'll hear from him a little later.
(01:04:47) NathanF: MU- any bugs I'm not aware of with that?
(01:04:58) NathanF: I do have one myself.
(01:05:02) PupUserMU: I have some more ideas like bookmarks, but that has lower priority
(01:05:04) rarsa: (we can proceed with the report in the order stated in the Agenda
(01:05:33) NathanF: OK. I'll go ahead and report on my end then.
(01:05:38) PupUserMU: I want to use the widget I wrote in C for other projects, too, like the debianinstaller
(01:06:04) PupUserMU: No, bugs should be all fixed now - i hope
(01:06:04) NathanF: The current state of 109, on the whole.
(01:06:25) ^Cricket^ [n=seth@pool-129-44-235-17.syr.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
(01:06:25) mode (+o ^Cricket^ ) by ChanServ
(01:06:40) klhrevolutionist: Agh, welcome young grasshopper!
(01:06:52) NathanF: If you build from the current tree the iso is within 300K of 108, with the new ROX and Transmission added.
(01:07:08) klhrevolutionist: So then we are going with the new rox ?
(01:07:27) NathanF: That's actually later in the agenda.
(01:07:31) klhrevolutionist: ......
(01:07:51) raffyMn: good to hear that
(01:08:05) NathanF: I did get the source patched successfully, but there's a little problem still that I found.
(01:08:33) NathanF: When X starts, and sometimes when using the new backgroundsetter
(01:08:57) NathanF: There isn't enough time for the program to write the image file
(01:09:08) NathanF: that ROX needs to set the backdrop
(01:09:25) NathanF: So you end up with an incomplete background.
(01:09:38) PupUserMU: sleep 3 && Pubbybackgroundmenu
(01:09:44) NathanF: Or worse, ROX will remove the background altogether.
(01:09:58) PupUserMU: that might fix it, written in .xinitrc
(01:10:09) NathanF: MU-yes I was going to mention that as a workaround
(01:10:22) NathanF: Actually, sleep 1 seems to be3 enough.
(01:10:38) rarsa: (Computers at different speeds may require different sleep times, I think it would be anoying for someone with a fast computer to wait the same as someone with a fast one
(01:10:51) NathanF: And it goes into .xinitrc, as well as roxrestart.sh
(01:11:24) NathanF: That's the only bug I found with using the new backgroundsetter and ROX-2.4.
(01:11:37) NathanF: No problems whatsoever with 1.2
(01:12:22) PupUserMU: so we all could try sleep 1 and see, if that solves it
(01:12:36) NathanF: Yes, a further test is in order.
(01:12:45) raffyMn: maybe barry can test background-setter more with v 2, and we refrain from using it yet
(01:13:10) NathanF: I'm actually pretty keen on using it already.
(01:13:20) raffyMn: ok, noted
(01:13:31) HueyNym: any other developer reports before we move on to "Bugs solved"?
(01:13:36) NathanF: But I won't make a unilateral decision, that's not my place.
(01:13:55) NathanF: Just providing some info to help with the decisions coming up later
(01:14:14) PupUserMU: I also could add something..
(01:14:25) NathanF: ?
(01:14:38) PupUserMU: that it does not restart rox, when X just was started.
(01:14:48) PupUserMU: Si in .xinitrc:
(01:15:08) PupUserMU: echo XBNEW > /tmp/roxstuff
(01:16:05) PupUserMU: Then the background setter would not start, if that file exists.
(01:16:29) NathanF: We can go over a possible solution on the forum. I'm sure a good one can be found.
(01:16:50) NathanF: Moving along with the report
(01:17:03) PupUserMU: however - rox does anyway not require it in xinitrc, as it uses automatically the last chosen picture
(01:17:29) NathanF: We currently have most of the software we wanted in place, for 109
(01:17:44) PupUserMU: so when you use rox2, just don't start the backgroundsetter in xinitrc?
(01:17:45) NathanF: It seems to be running satisfactorily
(01:18:30) NathanF: MU-maybe, not thinking of that just now.
(01:18:35) PupUserMU: ok, I will try to compile geany with the -Os option
(01:18:47) PupUserMU: that might decrease its size
(01:18:52) J_Rey: Is there going to be auto DHCP use on boot and default firewall rules?
(01:19:01) NathanF: MU-already done (geany)
(01:19:12) PupUserMU: a great
(01:19:24) HueyNym: aren't we on "Bugs Solved"?
(01:19:36) NathanF: Still on report.
(01:19:44) NathanF: Will move on shortly.
(01:19:57) HueyNym: ok, thank
(01:20:12) PupUserMU: ah yes,
(01:20:17) NathanF: We have most of the pieces in place, as I was saying
(01:20:30) NathanF: But we need to devote more time to the bug list
(01:20:31) PupUserMU: someone asked to use the debianinstaller in it?
(01:20:37) PupUserMU: I would say no.
(01:20:47) PupUserMU: I plan a complete rwrite
(01:20:59) NathanF: Yes, that's one that isn't added to the tree yet
(01:21:08) PupUserMU: to avoid the webserver, but that will take some weeks
(01:21:19) NathanF: And I was holding out for your conclusion that it was stable.
(01:21:36) PupUserMU: so the current version will have no more bugfixes
(01:21:49) ***rarsa waiting for his turn for reporting
(01:22:04) NathanF: No, we need to get on track with the buglist.
(01:22:07) PupUserMU: you can use it with some risk, but i think it should not go to a stable iso.
(01:22:35) NathanF: And we also need to start looking at the upgrade script, from 108 to 109
(01:22:46) PupUserMU: there are unsolved strange behaviours for some people.
(01:23:01) PupUserMU: for me it works great, for barry not
(01:23:23) NathanF: So no 109-beta release yet, but a second alpha could be posted next week.
(01:23:24) J_Rey: yes, we should fix important bugs for 1.0.9 and introduce bigger changes in 1.1.0
(01:23:38) PupUserMU: So I will settle over for a gtk-based version
(01:23:55) raffyMn: second J_rey's point
(01:24:30) NathanF: I've actually said my peace as for a report.
(01:24:35) ***^Cricket^ thirds JR's point
(01:24:50) rarsa: OK, for the XDG. I've upgraded ot the latest version of the gnome-menus libraries
(01:24:53) PupUserMU: yes, continue next point
(01:24:54) ^Cricket^: fix then break
(01:25:05) NathanF: Chair goes to Raffy
(01:25:12) rarsa: I've completed the changes to the fixmenues script
(01:25:25) PupUserMU: wow
(01:25:41) rarsa: Now I just need to repackge and test. It will be ready this weekend for the next alpha.
(01:26:06) NathanF: OK, should be in good time then
(01:26:20) rarsa: On the network wizard front. I just found out that 109 is still using the previous version
(01:26:56) NathanF: I updated the one in the tree this week.
(01:26:57) rarsa: Where should I include the newest one? the one that saves the parameters? That one needs a small change to the rc.network script.
(01:27:11) rarsa: Did you include the changes to the rc.network?
(01:27:35) NathanF: I think so, but I'd better check to be sure.
(01:27:58) rarsa: OK. So after this weekend I'll be open for other tasks according to priority.
(01:28:38) rarsa: I'm done with my report.
(01:28:43) klhrevolutionist: * Rox report - which version?
(01:28:44) raffyMn: Uh - will that be all for developer reports?
(01:28:47) NathanF: anyone else have anything to report for all of us?
(01:28:56) NathanF: Speak now..
(01:29:06) klhrevolutionist: Ok
(01:29:25) klhrevolutionist: I do want to change the icons for the original rox, if that is the one chosen.
(01:29:39) NathanF: Yes.
(01:29:49) NathanF: I agree.
(01:29:55) PupUserMU: ok
(01:30:17) klhrevolutionist: And since we now have heard from those developers. We can move on to rox no ?
(01:30:56) NathanF: Well, since it's the hot topic let's get it over with.
(01:31:04) PupUserMU: yes - bugs solved are listed in the forum to, right?
(01:31:12) raffyMn: second the suggestion - we can have "bugs solved" later
(01:31:42) HueyNym: motion passed
(01:31:56) klhrevolutionist: second that.
(01:32:09) NathanF: Okay, any general thoughts that would help us make this decision?
(01:32:23) PupUserMU: ok rox - I just cannot decide me. So for me both versions would be ok, as long as you can install the other as unleashed or dotpup.
(01:32:23) NathanF: We're making it tonight one way or another\
(01:32:32) klhrevolutionist: I promoted pizzasgood last week so that everyone got there say heard.
(01:32:54) NathanF: Which do you actually prefer, klh?
(01:33:02) klhrevolutionist: I prefer the original.
(01:33:13) Ted_Dog [n=Ted@cpe-24-174-131-168.satx.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(01:33:15) klhrevolutionist: As I assume most do ?
(01:33:25) mode (+o Ted_Dog ) by J_Rey
(01:33:35) PupUserMU: i slightly tend to 1.2, too.
(01:33:44) raffyMn: (Ted, discussing Rox now)
(01:33:54) HueyNym: can someone explain WHY?
(01:34:03) Ted_Dog: K tnks
(01:34:05) rarsa: I don't see advantages with 2.4 other than staying too long with an older version of something usually drags back development
(01:34:22) PupUserMU: because it is more compatible with other applications.
(01:34:42) NathanF: Well, nothing much depends on ROX
(01:34:52) PupUserMU: I have read the rox-homepage.
(01:35:18) PupUserMU: there were several demands of a solution to deactivate the background.
(01:35:29) MAX1: ..brb, later
(01:35:44) NathanF: I went on their irc network asking about it, and was never answered.
(01:35:45) PupUserMU: the answers: KDE and Gnome do that too. So kind of ignorant..
(01:35:51) klhrevolutionist: So who is in favor of rox 2.4 ?
(01:36:11) klhrevolutionist: And who is not ?
(01:36:21) HueyNym: <shrinks> I am <shrinks>
(01:36:25) Ted_Dog: Pro 2.4 generally the font/icon support
(01:36:28) PupUserMU: rox2 is extremely fast with pictures.
(01:36:36) rarsa: would this vote be an informed one? I still don't know whats better on the new one.
(01:36:48) raffyMn: I've had an instance of old Rox not saving the options - i Favor
(01:36:53) PupUserMU: but it stores them in /tmp , so they are lost after reboot.
(01:36:53) HueyNym: it shows images
(01:36:54) klhrevolutionist: Well, we all have had time to try both iso's.
(01:37:02) NathanF: It has a better bookmarks system also, plus highlights dirs with changed files inside.
(01:37:16) vern72023: i prefer 2.4
(01:37:21) HueyNym: it shows when directories have had files changed
(01:37:25) PupUserMU: 1.2 shows images too
(01:37:42) klhrevolutionist:
(01:37:45) HueyNym: sorry - icon images
(01:37:53) PupUserMU: just slower,and crashes with very huge imagefolders
(01:38:16) raffyMn: Mu: that IS a concern
(01:38:16) PupUserMU: yes, the highlight is nice..
(01:38:18) HueyNym: and the whole mime thing
(01:38:39) NathanF: I think long term we will have to upgrade, but not until they acnowledge the fact that we don't want or need their backgroundsetter for one.
(01:38:52) rarsa: It uses content based mime instead of file name based
(01:39:04) NathanF: It's an irresponsible way to release software, that it can't be deactivated.
(01:39:12) HueyNym: however, they ARE moving from ROX-filer (1.2) to ROX-Desktop (2.x)
(01:39:30) PupUserMU: the background definetly can not be removed - I studied the sourcecode
(01:39:45) NathanF: I've tried that as well. Dead end.
(01:39:48) klhrevolutionist: So maybe let us contact the developer's to assist us ?
(01:39:59) klhrevolutionist: Or has that been tried ?
(01:40:07) PupUserMU: no, it is integral part.
(01:40:14) HueyNym: they won't (not a fact, just a really good feeling)
(01:40:14) NathanF: Yes, we should contact them.
(01:40:28) NathanF: And we should see if we can get a few other distros to join us.
(01:40:40) PupUserMU: the whole structure is based on directly painting to the backdropwindow.
(01:40:49) NathanF: I think the Vector people are unhappy about it as well.
(01:40:57) HueyNym: they DO list us as one of their default users
(01:41:23) NathanF: We need to formally complain.
(01:41:26) PupUserMU: I have a tool to move it, the icons move too, as they are no longer independent windows, but just paintings on the backwindow.
(01:41:46) ^Cricket^: MU is right its not possible to deactivate the backdrop window
(01:41:48) rarsa: 'Complain' is quite hard for a free open source project
(01:42:05) rarsa: I think that we should nicelly explain our reasons
(01:42:13) klhrevolutionist: Exactly.
(01:42:19) raffyMn: "suggest a modification"
(01:42:38) NathanF: Okay, better wording, but the same effect.
(01:42:45) HueyNym: or find a different file manager (blasphemy!)
(01:42:50) rarsa: But for what I'm reading I think it would be quite hard to do
(01:42:54) ^Cricket^: find a new one~
(01:43:03) NathanF: We need to tell them in no uncertain terms that it's behavior cheeses us off.
(01:43:10) Ted_Dog: GEM is open source
(01:43:10) PupUserMU: it was suggestest in their forum - they just said: use our python -app to get some applications like xearth to work.
(01:43:19) NathanF: And that there are better ways of doing this.
(01:43:48) cherriepuppy left the room.
(01:43:53) PupUserMU: i once wrote an icon-system in Perl
(01:43:54) rarsa: Look If that was the developer's desicion it's because it works for them.
(01:44:04) NathanF: Okay, well lets get back to trying to make a decision here.
(01:44:06) rarsa: Question: can we have the filer without the pinboard?
(01:44:09) PupUserMU: but far from being as usefull as rox
(01:44:11) rarsa: Can we use other desktop manager?
(01:44:22) NathanF: Yes, it's possible.
(01:44:22) HueyNym: use their calculator app to calculat and their browser app to browse, too
(01:44:25) klhrevolutionist: nautilus
(01:44:36) rarsa: I would like to explore that solution. Other desktop managers
(01:44:39) klhrevolutionist:
(01:44:48) ^Cricket^: nautalius needs to many deps
(01:44:50) NathanF: But if we add a desktop manager that's more KB, that we don't need.
(01:45:11) NathanF: So I think we should stay with ROX in some form
(01:45:16) PupUserMU: bombayrockers once had this.. idesk
(01:45:24) rarsa: like IDesk
(01:45:25) PupUserMU: with transparency.
(01:45:28) klhrevolutionist: I say we stick with the default rox. we are on some kinda time limit....
(01:45:34) PupUserMU: but no inbuilt filemanager
(01:45:42) ^Cricket^: Xtdesk ~
(01:46:00) PupUserMU: don't know xtdesk
(01:46:03) NathanF: I favor the old one. We can create a very nice package with what we have that will integrate nicely into Puppy, for those who prefer it.
(01:46:09) rarsa: I've used IDesk and it's quite small. the problem at that time is that you couldn't drag icons
(01:46:22) NathanF: And then the time has not been wasted.
(01:46:24) klhrevolutionist: http://garuda.newmail.ru/xtdesk_e.dhtml
(01:46:38) PupUserMU: rarsa - thats bad. so no choice for us i think
(01:46:46) HueyNym: I think we've strayed too far from Puppy at that point
(01:47:04) rarsa: That was 'then' I can investigate
(01:47:06) NathanF: I don't like the idea of upgrading ROX and then adding another desktop manager.
(01:47:07) klhrevolutionist: So shall we have an up and down vote on this /
(01:47:22) NathanF: Yes, it's about time for that.
(01:47:29) klhrevolutionist: default rox or rox 2.4
(01:47:29) HueyNym: I'll digress
(01:47:44) klhrevolutionist: I vote *default
(01:47:49) raffyMn: I seems our viable choice is to keep the default
(01:47:59) PupUserMU: 1.2
(01:48:01) Ted_Dog: Agree defualt
(01:48:08) vern72023: efault
(01:48:09) NathanF: I vote default, but create a nice package based on what we now have.
(01:48:13) NathanF: For 2.4
(01:48:17) rarsa: well, the point is that we could explore other desktips
(01:48:18) HueyNym: just as long as the 2.4 is still available as a dotpup
(01:48:23) PupUserMU: yes nathan
(01:48:28) Ted_Dog: Cooll
(01:48:34) NathanF: MU-yes, my point
(01:48:43) rarsa: 1.2
(01:49:01) Ted_Dog: 1.2
(01:49:07) vern72023: 1.2
(01:49:18) klhrevolutionist: As majority rules we shall stick with 1.2
(01:49:28) PupUserMU: sithillspeak? no opinion?
(01:49:31) SitHeelSpeak: I abstain --not enough experience.
(01:49:42) PupUserMU: ah ok
(01:49:53) klhrevolutionist: Is anybody else interested in giving rox 1.2 a nice theme besides me ?
(01:49:54) NathanF: Allright, then it's decided.
(01:50:02) HueyNym: motion carried
(01:50:05) J_Rey: big changes for 1.1.0 so keep it for now
(01:50:07) raffyMn: Next item is P2P
(01:50:11) PupUserMU: yes, that was a clear vote.
(01:50:31) klhrevolutionist: Nathan ?
(01:50:35) HueyNym: Crusty was just confustered with that one
(01:50:46) PupUserMU: transmission - small, easy - great
(01:51:03) NathanF: P2P-we can add Transmission and hardly notice it's presence so far as size goes.
(01:51:03) HueyNym: we could leave out the CLI and save another 67K
(01:51:06) rarsa: transmission.
(01:51:14) klhrevolutionist: transmission
(01:51:21) NathanF: Anyone that doesn't want it in?
(01:51:22) Ted_Dog: Yes Transmission
(01:51:26) vern72023: transmission
(01:51:28) raffyMn: wasn't that decided during the reports, that transmission is in the package already?
(01:51:40) HueyNym: yes
(01:51:41) klhrevolutionist: HueyNym what kinda functionality would we lose by leaving out the CLI ?
(01:51:46) PupUserMU: well now it is
(01:51:46) J_Rey: Transmission +1
(01:51:51) rarsa: (It was just to get the vote out of the way)
(01:52:18) NathanF: raffy-I did a test to see how it would affect things. I look at the big picture (overall size)
(01:52:25) HueyNym: only those people who wanted to use the command line version wouldn't be able to, it would be gui only
(01:52:42) raffyMn: No more discussions about P2P then?
(01:52:43) klhrevolutionist: Oh no let us leave the CLI in.
(01:52:44) MAX1 left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(01:52:52) Ted_Dog: It had a CLI??
(01:52:54) HueyNym: they are 2 separate executables
(01:53:05) NathanF: I wasn't aware of that
(01:53:09) HueyNym: yes
(01:53:23) HueyNym: the cli is 67K
(01:53:25) klhrevolutionist: Me niether but the CLI could be of good use later on down the road..
(01:53:29) NathanF: It complicates things, but it seems that all are in favor of adding it in some form
(01:53:36) J_Rey: CLI +1
(01:53:40) rarsa: Later down the road we add it if we need it.
(01:53:44) klhrevolutionist: true
(01:53:54) vern72023: that sounds good
(01:54:00) Ted_Dog: CLI --
(01:54:09) NathanF: I think that there should be commandline equivelents for every gui app, so add it too.
(01:54:10) HueyNym: it installs by default,
(01:54:39) klhrevolutionist: Agrees with Nathan
(01:54:39) HueyNym: but CTorrent is smaller
(01:54:53) klhrevolutionist: ctorrent has had large complaints.
(01:55:03) HueyNym: I couldnt ever use it
(01:55:11) NathanF: Yes, very few can understand ctorrent
(01:55:35) Ted_Dog: I am easily confused
(01:55:37) HueyNym: so nevermind what I said, and let's pretend Lobster isn't here
(01:55:49) raffyMn: Would Nathan like to move now to "Sylpheed" (next item)?
(01:55:51) J_Rey: if its under 100KB does it matter?
(01:55:52) rarsa: (I've had no problem with CTorrent but I've also noticed people complaining)
(01:56:09) NathanF: 100K matters in Puppy.
(01:56:20) NathanF: But we need this in my opinion
(01:56:22) HueyNym: it's not
(01:56:44) vern72023: why do we need sylpheed
(01:56:46) HueyNym: I agree (wait, wasn't it my idea??
(01:56:49) rarsa: This isn't a topic to fight for. Now next topic)
(01:56:51) vern72023: use webmail
(01:57:13) rarsa: Some people have slow connections vern72023 and pay for connection time
(01:57:24) klhrevolutionist: I vote for http://spruce.sourceforge.net/ Spruce
(01:57:26) rarsa: Those people still need an email client
(01:57:29) NathanF: Sorry, my last comment was in regard to torrents.
(01:57:42) HueyNym: I'm still on torrents as well...
(01:57:53) PupUserMU: no, sylpheed is my favourite app. easy to port old mails, when you set up a new puppy. no dependency on huge libraries
(01:57:54) HueyNym: did we close out torrents?
(01:58:06) rarsa: I would say that the desicion is to keep Transmission, CLI and all.
(01:58:07) NathanF: Torrents discussion now closed.
(01:58:16) HueyNym: seconded
(01:58:20) NathanF: What rarsa said.
(01:58:28) NathanF: On to email.
(01:58:30) HueyNym: moving on
(01:58:37) klhrevolutionist: The weight category... Spruce Mail weighs less.
(01:58:38) klhrevolutionist: bin file only
(01:58:38) klhrevolutionist: sylpheed = 997k
(01:58:38) klhrevolutionist: spruce 428k
(01:58:47) PupUserMU: had no look at spruce yet
(01:58:52) rarsa: (I'll abstain, I don't use email clients since 10 years ago)
(01:58:56) HueyNym: Pakt has problems with national characters, do you MU?
(01:59:11) NathanF: I like the numbers, but I couldn't get spruce to send mail.
(01:59:19) PupUserMU: no, but i mostly receive english mails
(01:59:30) PupUserMU: so i don't know
(01:59:33) HueyNym: Spruce is too much like elm
(01:59:45) HueyNym: ah.
(02:00:03) NathanF: I think that Spruce should be explored for a future release. But for 109, we need to decide about which version of Sylpheed to use.
(02:00:15) HueyNym: has anyone been able to compile the new version of sylpheed?
(02:00:17) Pizzasgood [n=Pizzasgo@adsl-223-35-219.aep.bellsouth.net] entered the room.
(02:00:25) mode (+o Pizzasgood ) by J_Rey
(02:00:27) NathanF: The new version only adds about ten K
(02:00:28) NeverMore_ [n=Nevermor@host220-175.pool876.interbusiness.it] entered the room.
(02:00:32) NeverMore_: hey all
(02:00:40) Pizzasgood: I'm here now
(02:00:44) raffyMn: (now discussing Sylpheed/email client)
(02:00:48) NathanF: Hi newcomers.
(02:00:56) HueyNym: how long ago was it removed from Puppy?
(02:01:12) NathanF: Sylpheed is still in as of 108
(02:01:21) NathanF: but not in Puppy2
(02:01:21) J_Rey: Sylpheed is not in 2.x releases....
(02:01:39) HueyNym: I was reading one of Barry's old news items about Spruce as an e-mail client in Puppy
(02:01:49) PupUserMU: national characters work fine for me, just tried it
(02:01:59) NathanF: In what version, MU
(02:02:01) NeverMore_ left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(02:02:48) PupUserMU: in puppy2 it is an unleashed package (Pupget)
(02:02:58) PupUserMU: thats ok, too.
(02:03:13) klhrevolutionist: I agree with Nathan's final answer on mail.
(02:03:15) PupUserMU: i use it in 108r1
(02:03:27) NathanF: klh-thanks.
(02:03:52) NathanF: I just checked total size, my original figures off.
(02:04:07) raffyMn: so just keeping it shall be fine?
(02:04:23) NathanF: 110K size difference uncompressed between the old version and the mst recent stable.
(02:04:40) HueyNym: ok. so if national characters work, I vote we keep 2.0.1 and someone tell pakt it's his problem
(02:04:54) klhrevolutionist: lol
(02:05:23) NathanF: Anyone else having problems with it at all, on the forum or anywhere else?
(02:05:31) Hachimitsu_to_Cl [n=me@pool-72-72-55-148.bstnma.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
(02:05:43) HueyNym: that's the only complaint I've heard
(02:05:49) NathanF: It's not a huge size difference to make the upgrade.
(02:06:14) NathanF: But do we actually need to?
(02:06:35) raffyMn: i move not
(02:06:37) HueyNym: Well, they've added Chinese
(02:07:09) NathanF: Chinese=billions of people=good for Puppy
(02:07:21) raffyMn: if there were recent changes as said, I take back the motion
(02:07:23) HueyNym: but I don't think that enough of a reason at this point
(02:07:46) J_Rey: -= before the 1.0.9 is finalized then lets make sure that it will still fully load in 128 MB RAM =-
(02:08:01) NathanF: Let's put it on the back burner for next release then.
(02:08:09) HueyNym: that's why I thought it might be a good idea at first,
(02:08:14) raffyMn: second that
(02:08:20) vern72023: agreed
(02:08:27) HueyNym: motion carried
(02:08:34) raffyMn: (Note: Mu's bg-changer has been discussed in the reports, so next item is File repository for 1.09)
(02:08:35) NathanF: Okay then. Next topic.
(02:09:14) Ted_Dog: I volunteer space
(02:09:22) NathanF: We need a package repo, and ther should be a commitment from the owner for a certain time period.
(02:09:37) NathanF: Ted_Dog-you're hired.
(02:09:46) NathanF: Which domain?
(02:09:50) klhrevolutionist: Nathan and I have discussed using blogtorrent as a tracker.
(02:10:00) Ted_Dog: Hoo Ra What 's the pay?
(02:10:23) NathanF: A lot of people using your bandwidth
(02:10:31) PupUserMU: I'm running out of space on my server - so it would be good, if the other ones could host it.
(02:10:48) NathanF: MU- I understand, and wasn't going to ask.
(02:10:54) Ted_Dog: Based on use puppylinux.net first , then puptrix still using less than 20% BW monthly
(02:11:03) rarsa: What's your bandwidtht ted?
(02:11:13) NathanF: Whoever hosts it should be prepared for a commitment to continue doing so.
(02:11:35) Ted_Dog: 1000 G /month Puptrix 250G /month Puppylinux.net
(02:11:37) NathanF: And not move it from place to place if possible.
(02:11:44) rarsa: Or at least to relinquish the domain when they decide to move on
(02:12:03) NathanF: I've had nightmares with this problem in Grafpup, moving from host to host.
(02:12:26) raffyMn: Babb's server is good, too, but he hasn't visited his server this week
(02:12:31) NathanF: So we need a commitment to keep it up, and in one place if at all possible.
(02:12:32) PupUserMU: yes, poor nathan, that was a hard time...
(02:13:04) NathanF: Just so you understand what you aree agreeing to.
(02:13:29) raffyMn: Ted: is puptrix the one with 1,000 g/month?
(02:13:35) Ted_Dog: BABBS & I have same host for puptrix, puppylinux on new host
(02:14:02) NathanF: Barry has said that we can continue to use nluug.org, but only as backup server.
(02:14:22) Ted_Dog: yes, prepaid for 2 yrs
(02:14:37) NathanF: Ted, can it be anon ftp on your space, or are we talking http transfer.
(02:14:51) ***J_Rey has wondered why puptrix.org has been underused
(02:14:51) raffyMn: The need seems to be for file repo admins
(02:15:00) NathanF: It can be set up either way, but ftp is preferred.
(02:15:48) raffyMn: Can I suggest that admin volunteers come up for it (the task)?
(02:15:59) Ted_Dog: That is the problem with the host, very little flex FTP ok but slow for me, Babbs can transfer from his to puptrix in seconds
(02:16:25) NathanF: So probably http transfer?
(02:16:37) Ted_Dog: no
(02:16:48) Rh1no [n=chatzill@nr22-69-61-147-225.fuse.net] entered the room.
(02:16:57) mode (+o Rh1no ) by J_Rey
(02:17:07) raffyMn: (discussing file repos for 1.09 now, Rhino)
(02:17:15) PupUserMU: hi rhino
(02:17:23) Rh1no: hello all
(02:18:04) NathanF: raffy-what we actually are proposing is an unleashed repo to take the place of the one at ibiblio, as per Barry's request.
(02:18:18) NathanF: So Pupget would point there.
(02:18:33) raffyMn: Yes, we seem to have the places (babb's and Ted's puptrix)
(02:18:47) NathanF: In fact, we may have to release a bugfix to point users of previous Puppy versions there.
(02:18:57) raffyMn: babb's puppyfiles.us
(02:19:19) NathanF: Because the ibiblio repo is being populated with Puppy2 packages
(02:19:35) HueyNym: which also means an update to DotPup downloader>]
(02:19:54) NathanF: Maybe.
(02:20:02) PupUserMU: no, downloader uses the wiki
(02:20:10) NathanF: That's what I thought.
(02:20:18) HueyNym: ok
(02:20:24) PupUserMU: we currently talk of the 109 -basesystem
(02:20:58) PupUserMU: you can install older dotpups on it, so no need for a change
(02:21:32) Ted_Dog: Does redirect affect downloader?
(02:21:37) raffyMn: how many people do use puget?
(02:21:42) NathanF: Well, Ted_Dog has volunteered to host. I don't see any reason not to take him up on it.
(02:21:45) raffyMn: pupget
(02:21:52) klhrevolutionist: This topic really brings up a host of other issues.......
(02:21:56) J_Rey: BBIAB
(02:22:00) PupUserMU: it should not, ted, as it uses wget.
(02:22:01) ***J_Rey is away: gone
(02:22:03) Ted_Dog: haa ha good one
(02:22:25) Rh1no: we need to update the links in the wiki then, because many of the dotpups that have been made are not included in the dotpup downloader. I will be glad to help if I can be explained what to do
(02:22:58) raffyMn: great, support Rino's point
(02:23:06) NathanF: Ted, I'll talk to you later then about setting up a repo?
(02:23:11) Ted_Dog: K
(02:23:24) PupUserMU: the wiki is easy.
(02:23:32) Rh1no: enlightenment and xfce are great packages, but it takes some searching on the forum to find them
(02:23:34) NathanF: Solved then. We need to move on.
(02:23:52) HueyNym: seconded
(02:23:53) klhrevolutionist: Okay next......
(02:23:55) PupUserMU: the files can be hosted anywhere, the wiki is just a page containing the links to them.
(02:24:22) rarsa: Regarding the dotpup repo... I have some ideas that may help puppy mature
(02:24:23) NathanF: Next issue is feature freeze and release schedule.
(02:24:42) PupUserMU: just add a link to the correct category, + a short text and a link to further information (homepage, forummessage)
(02:24:56) HueyNym: aren't the features already frozen?
(02:25:24) klhrevolutionist:
(02:25:37) NathanF: I may not have much computer access next week, going out of town to OK city, so you all may have to soldier on without me for a few days.
(02:25:50) HueyNym: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(02:25:59) HueyNym:
(02:26:02) raffyMn: Releases can be a regular item in the monthly meetings
(02:26:10) NathanF: I intend to put together a second alpha before leaving, and everyone can test.
(02:26:29) NathanF: No beta just yet.
(02:26:44) NathanF: But we need to set a target for release.
(02:26:55) NathanF: We'rte not too far off, already.
(02:27:33) NathanF: I think three weeks maybe?
(02:27:33) raffyMn: May 6 is next meeting - is that a possible target date?
(02:27:51) NathanF: raffy-it might be.
(02:27:53) rarsa: I would sugest one alpha/beta per week
(02:28:09) raffyMn: add perhaps 1 week - make it May 15?
(02:28:29) NathanF: yes, the 15th is doable.
(02:28:44) Ted_Dog: Mothers Day?
(02:28:44) NathanF: based on what I'm seeing
(02:28:44) PupUserMU: sounds reasonable
(02:28:57) HueyNym: what a Bitch
(02:29:07) NathanF: Oooohhhhh..........
(02:29:21) Pizzasgood: I thought Puppy was male
(02:29:28) HueyNym: then we can breed her
(02:29:36) NathanF: Target date of May 15th then.
(02:29:50) Ted_Dog: Target = shopping
(02:29:53) raffyMn: (Suggest to Nathan that Bugs Solved be next item)
(02:30:10) rarsa: target date sounds fair
(02:30:15) NathanF: I will release whatever is the curent state of development on Monday. Bugs solved is the next topic.
(02:30:35) klhrevolutionist: I reckon.
(02:30:35) HueyNym: seconded
(02:30:39) klhrevolutionist: third
(02:30:49) Ted_Dog: 4th
(02:31:00) NathanF: "I will release whatever is the curent state of development on Monday" as a second alpha
(02:31:02) raffyMn: For printing, let's not gorget this http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=6919
(02:31:10) klhrevolutionist: Well I am out. And with that I leave you with a link.
(02:31:15) klhrevolutionist: http://www.greenvilleroad.com/OtherArti ... rthur.html
(02:31:17) klhrevolutionist left the room.
(02:32:01) rarsa: OK I'll hurry preparing the XDG 0.7.2 tonight so it can be ready
(02:32:04) NathanF: Okay, on to bugs. We have a tracker, please start using it.
(02:32:18) rarsa: I registered but I'm just a 'reporter'
(02:32:19) NathanF: Not very many people are doing so.
(02:32:21) rarsa: what does that mean?
(02:32:23) HueyNym: Mantis?
(02:33:18) NathanF: I updated a few of the bugs on the tracker yesterday, but there's a whole bunch more.
(02:33:31) NathanF: Many of them are just feature requests
(02:33:50) NathanF: but a few are very serious IMHO
(02:34:12) NathanF: So please take a look and see what you can do
(02:34:19) rarsa: are we looking at the saame list?
(02:34:25) raffyMn: For records, here is the tracker URL: http://tracker.nfshost.com/mantis
(02:34:37) NathanF: I'm talking about the Mantis tracker
(02:34:41) rarsa: I see that all of them are requests and only one HW related
(02:34:48) rarsa: Yes, I'm looking at that
(02:36:21) NathanF: As for bugs fixed, the network/X crash bug is gone, as is the bug in Pupzip
(02:36:46) NathanF: And also I have reports that the new xkb folder has done it's job
(02:37:07) rarsa: I saw the request for a black rxvt still open but It's already in 1.0.9 alpha1
(02:37:32) NathanF: I didn't update the status on that, but commented on it
(02:37:32) HueyNym: it's a menu item now, right?
(02:37:36) NathanF: yes
(02:38:00) rarsa: Can we assign bugs to ourselves? or should we ask someone to assign it to us
(02:38:11) NathanF: But the menu still is nowhere near done. Rarsa will be working on that.
(02:38:32) NathanF: rarsa-I'd say if you can fix it please do.
(02:39:03) NathanF: There were only a few real assignments yet
(02:39:10) raffyMn: (Well, as Nathan is already using the tracker, we just need more people to get in there and help - update the posts, for example)
(02:39:19) NathanF: Yes.
(02:40:00) NathanF: Any other bugs found in the last alpha, while we're on the topic?
(02:40:31) raffyMn: Could we consider adjourning now? (motion)
(02:40:55) HueyNym: are we abstaining from the last item on the agenda?
(02:41:17) raffyMn: (can't decode that item )
(02:41:50) NathanF: The last item, future plans. Plans for another community edition after 109.
(02:41:58) HueyNym: planning for post Puppy2 (I vote to postpone that item for a future date)
(02:42:13) raffyMn: second Huey
(02:42:16) NathanF: A better system for doing so is in order.
(02:42:17) rarsa: I'd say lets defer that one for the next meeting
(02:42:18) HueyNym: anyone second?
(02:42:31) NathanF: Yes, I need to go soon.
(02:42:41) raffyMn: Note: I guess Barry needs now a machine with USB 2 for development
(02:42:44) NathanF: It is open for discussion on the forum
(02:43:07) HueyNym: is someone going to second my motion>
(02:43:13) Ted_Dog: 2nd
(02:43:14) NathanF: Any other issues or can we adjourn?
(02:43:20) HueyNym: seconded
(02:43:25) raffyMn: I did already, and rarsa
(02:43:34) Pizzasgood: 102nd
(02:43:48) rarsa: I 109nd the motion
(02:43:50) PupUserMU: I try to make a "universal-widget" based on the one of the Backgroundsetter. Might be usable to update some wizards with nice pictures. But that will be a never ending story)
(02:43:57) raffyMn: Move to adjourn then
(02:44:01) HueyNym: meeting's been called
(02:44:09) NathanF: Okay, until next time then. Meeting is closed, but feel free to stay and chat.
(02:44:26) PupUserMU: thanks nathan, bye all
(02:44:33) HueyNym: thanks all
(02:44:49) NathanF: MU-I've tried the widget you posted and it is good so far.
(02:45:02) NathanF: The start of a nice small useful utility.
(02:45:11) NathanF: Keep at it.
(02:45:14) raffyMn: Ah, Nathan, I ignored your comment that "Chair goes to Raffy" - am happy as meeting participant
(02:45:37) NathanF: raffy, are you staying a while?
(02:45:39) PupUserMU: I want to add more, like textwidget, bookmarkbutton etc. everything to switch on via rcfile.
(02:45:43) raffyMn: yes
(02:46:20) PupUserMU: But C needs lots of debugging, as memory allocation errors are easily overseen. So this grows slowly.
(02:46:37) NathanF: raffy-How soon can we get the updates you've been working on into the tree?
(02:47:08) NathanF: The menu system has to be in place ASAP
(02:47:20) rarsa: nice tlking to you
(02:47:39) NathanF: sorry, mistaken identity agin.
(02:47:50) NathanF:
(02:47:50) raffyMn: Those are easy points about printing, will PM you today
(02:48:02) rarsa: I'll upload tonight
(02:48:10) NathanF: rarsa-thanks
(02:48:32) raffyMn: raffy/rarsa - quite confusing
(02:48:42) rarsa: hahaha, I am the handsome one.
(02:48:50) NathanF: It shouldn't be. My fault.
(02:48:55) rarsa: I'm the one the ladies choose
(02:48:57) raffyMn: wait till you compare pix
(02:49:05) Pizzasgood: I get you both mixed up too
(02:49:27) NathanF: Pizzasgood-we went for ROX-1.2. Sorry.
(02:49:35) Pizzasgood: That's cool
(02:50:08) ***rarsa will let the women decide, raffy
(02:50:12) PupUserMU: so you have more time to develop your game
(02:50:15) raffyMn: lol
(02:50:22) Pizzasgood: It didn't really take long to sort out the package anyway, it was just hard finding the time to do it.
(02:50:47) Pizzasgood: Now it's done, so next time I want to remaster with it I won't have to do it again.
(02:50:50) PupUserMU: but we want rox2 as an optional package
(02:51:00) NathanF: Well, it was coming along very nicely. I think it should be released in some form.
(02:51:06) Rh1no: I would like to play with the new ROx as well
(02:51:23) NathanF: Maybe with my patches?
(02:51:37) NathanF: It does integrate well.
(02:51:45) Pizzasgood: So I should modify it to co-exist with the old Rox, like what GuestToo did with his dotpup?
(02:51:53) NathanF: I was nearly sold.
(02:51:57) Pizzasgood: Wouldn't be hard
(02:51:57) PupUserMU: Pizza, you will leave soon, right?
(02:52:04) Pizzasgood: May 29
(02:52:05) PupUserMU: to hollyday?
(02:52:12) Pizzasgood: Leading up to that I'll be pretty busy
(02:52:14) PupUserMU: 2 month?
(02:52:31) Pizzasgood: Yep. I'll be getting back end of July or beginning of August
(02:52:53) PupUserMU: thats long... I wish you lot of fun and inspiration there
(02:53:21) rarsa: NathanF: Why do you think that having a replacement Desktop manager is not a good idea?
(02:53:26) rarsa: (not for this version)
(02:53:40) rarsa: That solves the only problem we see in rox 2.4
(02:54:08) NathanF: I just don't like the idea of adding another program to handle what ROX should be able to do anyway.
(02:54:23) NathanF: That's inefficient use of resources.
(02:54:57) rarsa: can that be compiled out of ROX?
(02:55:08) NathanF: We could explore the idea for a ROX-2.4 package, though.
(02:55:19) NathanF: rarsa-it's too integrated.
(02:55:37) rarsa: OK
(02:56:06) klhrevolutionist [n=klhrevol@71.87.187.153] entered the room.
(02:56:11) Pizzasgood: Gotto go, bye
(02:56:21) Pizzasgood left the room.
(02:56:25) klhrevolutionist: Nathan, what size icons do you need for the rox theme ?
(00:55:55) NathanF [n=NathanF@66-101-59-13-static.dsl.oplink.net] entered the room.
(00:56:00) HueyNym: so are we moving the meeting over here?
(00:56:04) mode (+o NathanF ) by J_Rey
(00:56:04) PupUserMU: hi boss
(00:56:17) HueyNym: hi NathanF
(00:56:51) NathanF: HI everyone. Don't think of me as boss, I'm just marginally trying to coordinate everything.
(00:56:53) rarsa: I'm ready
(00:57:07) PupUserMU: you do that very good
(00:57:16) NathanF: Sorry it took so long to get here.
(00:57:36) NathanF: Is lobster coming?
(00:57:38) PupUserMU: thats ok, i just watched a nice movie
(00:57:41) rarsa: This is the first time I get on time to a meeting
(00:57:57) HueyNym: which film MU?
(00:57:59) J_Rey:
(00:58:22) budden [n=root@c-71-198-165-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] entered the room.
(00:58:32) rarsa: I just watched 'stealth' this morning. Not art really, just a weekender movie
(00:59:15) PupUserMU: vampires and werewolfes, relatively new. don't know the name. second part is in cinema currently
(01:00:10) rarsa: Is that a German movie?
(01:00:17) SitHeelSpeak [n=SitHeelS@216.227.116.171] entered the room.
(01:01:12) NathanF: OK, looks like approximately the right time. Let's get started.
(01:01:16) rarsa: Hi you all. And hi to the people that said hi when I wasn't paying attention
(01:01:26) PupUserMU: no,american
(01:01:38) PupUserMU: ok
(01:01:38) HueyNym: where's Crusty?
(01:01:54) raffyMn: Yes, hi, Rarsa. As to agenda: http://forum.puppylinux.net/viewtopic.php?t=29
(01:02:23) HueyNym: I mean Lobster
(01:02:42) rarsa: OK
(01:02:53) NathanF: Well, we should start even without the crustacean.
(01:03:02) NathanF: He can catch up.
(01:03:26) NathanF: Meeting called to order.
(01:03:34) HueyNym: Seconded
(01:03:49) NathanF: First item on the agenda is the developer's report.
(01:03:53) PupUserMU: * Developer report - Any comments from Barry, Nathan, Mu, Pizzasgood, Rarsa, Klh
(01:04:19) klhrevolutionist: well the only bug I know is the firefox bug as nathan mentioned.
(01:04:26) PupUserMU: ok, my backgroundsetter is finished. except bugs are reported.
(01:04:28) NathanF: Pizzasgood will be late, so we'll hear from him a little later.
(01:04:47) NathanF: MU- any bugs I'm not aware of with that?
(01:04:58) NathanF: I do have one myself.
(01:05:02) PupUserMU: I have some more ideas like bookmarks, but that has lower priority
(01:05:04) rarsa: (we can proceed with the report in the order stated in the Agenda
(01:05:33) NathanF: OK. I'll go ahead and report on my end then.
(01:05:38) PupUserMU: I want to use the widget I wrote in C for other projects, too, like the debianinstaller
(01:06:04) PupUserMU: No, bugs should be all fixed now - i hope
(01:06:04) NathanF: The current state of 109, on the whole.
(01:06:25) ^Cricket^ [n=seth@pool-129-44-235-17.syr.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
(01:06:25) mode (+o ^Cricket^ ) by ChanServ
(01:06:40) klhrevolutionist: Agh, welcome young grasshopper!
(01:06:52) NathanF: If you build from the current tree the iso is within 300K of 108, with the new ROX and Transmission added.
(01:07:08) klhrevolutionist: So then we are going with the new rox ?
(01:07:27) NathanF: That's actually later in the agenda.
(01:07:31) klhrevolutionist: ......
(01:07:51) raffyMn: good to hear that
(01:08:05) NathanF: I did get the source patched successfully, but there's a little problem still that I found.
(01:08:33) NathanF: When X starts, and sometimes when using the new backgroundsetter
(01:08:57) NathanF: There isn't enough time for the program to write the image file
(01:09:08) NathanF: that ROX needs to set the backdrop
(01:09:25) NathanF: So you end up with an incomplete background.
(01:09:38) PupUserMU: sleep 3 && Pubbybackgroundmenu
(01:09:44) NathanF: Or worse, ROX will remove the background altogether.
(01:09:58) PupUserMU: that might fix it, written in .xinitrc
(01:10:09) NathanF: MU-yes I was going to mention that as a workaround
(01:10:22) NathanF: Actually, sleep 1 seems to be3 enough.
(01:10:38) rarsa: (Computers at different speeds may require different sleep times, I think it would be anoying for someone with a fast computer to wait the same as someone with a fast one
(01:10:51) NathanF: And it goes into .xinitrc, as well as roxrestart.sh
(01:11:24) NathanF: That's the only bug I found with using the new backgroundsetter and ROX-2.4.
(01:11:37) NathanF: No problems whatsoever with 1.2
(01:12:22) PupUserMU: so we all could try sleep 1 and see, if that solves it
(01:12:36) NathanF: Yes, a further test is in order.
(01:12:45) raffyMn: maybe barry can test background-setter more with v 2, and we refrain from using it yet
(01:13:10) NathanF: I'm actually pretty keen on using it already.
(01:13:20) raffyMn: ok, noted
(01:13:31) HueyNym: any other developer reports before we move on to "Bugs solved"?
(01:13:36) NathanF: But I won't make a unilateral decision, that's not my place.
(01:13:55) NathanF: Just providing some info to help with the decisions coming up later
(01:14:14) PupUserMU: I also could add something..
(01:14:25) NathanF: ?
(01:14:38) PupUserMU: that it does not restart rox, when X just was started.
(01:14:48) PupUserMU: Si in .xinitrc:
(01:15:08) PupUserMU: echo XBNEW > /tmp/roxstuff
(01:16:05) PupUserMU: Then the background setter would not start, if that file exists.
(01:16:29) NathanF: We can go over a possible solution on the forum. I'm sure a good one can be found.
(01:16:50) NathanF: Moving along with the report
(01:17:03) PupUserMU: however - rox does anyway not require it in xinitrc, as it uses automatically the last chosen picture
(01:17:29) NathanF: We currently have most of the software we wanted in place, for 109
(01:17:44) PupUserMU: so when you use rox2, just don't start the backgroundsetter in xinitrc?
(01:17:45) NathanF: It seems to be running satisfactorily
(01:18:30) NathanF: MU-maybe, not thinking of that just now.
(01:18:35) PupUserMU: ok, I will try to compile geany with the -Os option
(01:18:47) PupUserMU: that might decrease its size
(01:18:52) J_Rey: Is there going to be auto DHCP use on boot and default firewall rules?
(01:19:01) NathanF: MU-already done (geany)
(01:19:12) PupUserMU: a great
(01:19:24) HueyNym: aren't we on "Bugs Solved"?
(01:19:36) NathanF: Still on report.
(01:19:44) NathanF: Will move on shortly.
(01:19:57) HueyNym: ok, thank
(01:20:12) PupUserMU: ah yes,
(01:20:17) NathanF: We have most of the pieces in place, as I was saying
(01:20:30) NathanF: But we need to devote more time to the bug list
(01:20:31) PupUserMU: someone asked to use the debianinstaller in it?
(01:20:37) PupUserMU: I would say no.
(01:20:47) PupUserMU: I plan a complete rwrite
(01:20:59) NathanF: Yes, that's one that isn't added to the tree yet
(01:21:08) PupUserMU: to avoid the webserver, but that will take some weeks
(01:21:19) NathanF: And I was holding out for your conclusion that it was stable.
(01:21:36) PupUserMU: so the current version will have no more bugfixes
(01:21:49) ***rarsa waiting for his turn for reporting
(01:22:04) NathanF: No, we need to get on track with the buglist.
(01:22:07) PupUserMU: you can use it with some risk, but i think it should not go to a stable iso.
(01:22:35) NathanF: And we also need to start looking at the upgrade script, from 108 to 109
(01:22:46) PupUserMU: there are unsolved strange behaviours for some people.
(01:23:01) PupUserMU: for me it works great, for barry not
(01:23:23) NathanF: So no 109-beta release yet, but a second alpha could be posted next week.
(01:23:24) J_Rey: yes, we should fix important bugs for 1.0.9 and introduce bigger changes in 1.1.0
(01:23:38) PupUserMU: So I will settle over for a gtk-based version
(01:23:55) raffyMn: second J_rey's point
(01:24:30) NathanF: I've actually said my peace as for a report.
(01:24:35) ***^Cricket^ thirds JR's point
(01:24:50) rarsa: OK, for the XDG. I've upgraded ot the latest version of the gnome-menus libraries
(01:24:53) PupUserMU: yes, continue next point
(01:24:54) ^Cricket^: fix then break
(01:25:05) NathanF: Chair goes to Raffy
(01:25:12) rarsa: I've completed the changes to the fixmenues script
(01:25:25) PupUserMU: wow
(01:25:41) rarsa: Now I just need to repackge and test. It will be ready this weekend for the next alpha.
(01:26:06) NathanF: OK, should be in good time then
(01:26:20) rarsa: On the network wizard front. I just found out that 109 is still using the previous version
(01:26:56) NathanF: I updated the one in the tree this week.
(01:26:57) rarsa: Where should I include the newest one? the one that saves the parameters? That one needs a small change to the rc.network script.
(01:27:11) rarsa: Did you include the changes to the rc.network?
(01:27:35) NathanF: I think so, but I'd better check to be sure.
(01:27:58) rarsa: OK. So after this weekend I'll be open for other tasks according to priority.
(01:28:38) rarsa: I'm done with my report.
(01:28:43) klhrevolutionist: * Rox report - which version?
(01:28:44) raffyMn: Uh - will that be all for developer reports?
(01:28:47) NathanF: anyone else have anything to report for all of us?
(01:28:56) NathanF: Speak now..
(01:29:06) klhrevolutionist: Ok
(01:29:25) klhrevolutionist: I do want to change the icons for the original rox, if that is the one chosen.
(01:29:39) NathanF: Yes.
(01:29:49) NathanF: I agree.
(01:29:55) PupUserMU: ok
(01:30:17) klhrevolutionist: And since we now have heard from those developers. We can move on to rox no ?
(01:30:56) NathanF: Well, since it's the hot topic let's get it over with.
(01:31:04) PupUserMU: yes - bugs solved are listed in the forum to, right?
(01:31:12) raffyMn: second the suggestion - we can have "bugs solved" later
(01:31:42) HueyNym: motion passed
(01:31:56) klhrevolutionist: second that.
(01:32:09) NathanF: Okay, any general thoughts that would help us make this decision?
(01:32:23) PupUserMU: ok rox - I just cannot decide me. So for me both versions would be ok, as long as you can install the other as unleashed or dotpup.
(01:32:23) NathanF: We're making it tonight one way or another\
(01:32:32) klhrevolutionist: I promoted pizzasgood last week so that everyone got there say heard.
(01:32:54) NathanF: Which do you actually prefer, klh?
(01:33:02) klhrevolutionist: I prefer the original.
(01:33:13) Ted_Dog [n=Ted@cpe-24-174-131-168.satx.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(01:33:15) klhrevolutionist: As I assume most do ?
(01:33:25) mode (+o Ted_Dog ) by J_Rey
(01:33:35) PupUserMU: i slightly tend to 1.2, too.
(01:33:44) raffyMn: (Ted, discussing Rox now)
(01:33:54) HueyNym: can someone explain WHY?
(01:34:03) Ted_Dog: K tnks
(01:34:05) rarsa: I don't see advantages with 2.4 other than staying too long with an older version of something usually drags back development
(01:34:22) PupUserMU: because it is more compatible with other applications.
(01:34:42) NathanF: Well, nothing much depends on ROX
(01:34:52) PupUserMU: I have read the rox-homepage.
(01:35:18) PupUserMU: there were several demands of a solution to deactivate the background.
(01:35:29) MAX1: ..brb, later
(01:35:44) NathanF: I went on their irc network asking about it, and was never answered.
(01:35:45) PupUserMU: the answers: KDE and Gnome do that too. So kind of ignorant..
(01:35:51) klhrevolutionist: So who is in favor of rox 2.4 ?
(01:36:11) klhrevolutionist: And who is not ?
(01:36:21) HueyNym: <shrinks> I am <shrinks>
(01:36:25) Ted_Dog: Pro 2.4 generally the font/icon support
(01:36:28) PupUserMU: rox2 is extremely fast with pictures.
(01:36:36) rarsa: would this vote be an informed one? I still don't know whats better on the new one.
(01:36:48) raffyMn: I've had an instance of old Rox not saving the options - i Favor
(01:36:53) PupUserMU: but it stores them in /tmp , so they are lost after reboot.
(01:36:53) HueyNym: it shows images
(01:36:54) klhrevolutionist: Well, we all have had time to try both iso's.
(01:37:02) NathanF: It has a better bookmarks system also, plus highlights dirs with changed files inside.
(01:37:16) vern72023: i prefer 2.4
(01:37:21) HueyNym: it shows when directories have had files changed
(01:37:25) PupUserMU: 1.2 shows images too
(01:37:42) klhrevolutionist:
(01:37:45) HueyNym: sorry - icon images
(01:37:53) PupUserMU: just slower,and crashes with very huge imagefolders
(01:38:16) raffyMn: Mu: that IS a concern
(01:38:16) PupUserMU: yes, the highlight is nice..
(01:38:18) HueyNym: and the whole mime thing
(01:38:39) NathanF: I think long term we will have to upgrade, but not until they acnowledge the fact that we don't want or need their backgroundsetter for one.
(01:38:52) rarsa: It uses content based mime instead of file name based
(01:39:04) NathanF: It's an irresponsible way to release software, that it can't be deactivated.
(01:39:12) HueyNym: however, they ARE moving from ROX-filer (1.2) to ROX-Desktop (2.x)
(01:39:30) PupUserMU: the background definetly can not be removed - I studied the sourcecode
(01:39:45) NathanF: I've tried that as well. Dead end.
(01:39:48) klhrevolutionist: So maybe let us contact the developer's to assist us ?
(01:39:59) klhrevolutionist: Or has that been tried ?
(01:40:07) PupUserMU: no, it is integral part.
(01:40:14) HueyNym: they won't (not a fact, just a really good feeling)
(01:40:14) NathanF: Yes, we should contact them.
(01:40:28) NathanF: And we should see if we can get a few other distros to join us.
(01:40:40) PupUserMU: the whole structure is based on directly painting to the backdropwindow.
(01:40:49) NathanF: I think the Vector people are unhappy about it as well.
(01:40:57) HueyNym: they DO list us as one of their default users
(01:41:23) NathanF: We need to formally complain.
(01:41:26) PupUserMU: I have a tool to move it, the icons move too, as they are no longer independent windows, but just paintings on the backwindow.
(01:41:46) ^Cricket^: MU is right its not possible to deactivate the backdrop window
(01:41:48) rarsa: 'Complain' is quite hard for a free open source project
(01:42:05) rarsa: I think that we should nicelly explain our reasons
(01:42:13) klhrevolutionist: Exactly.
(01:42:19) raffyMn: "suggest a modification"
(01:42:38) NathanF: Okay, better wording, but the same effect.
(01:42:45) HueyNym: or find a different file manager (blasphemy!)
(01:42:50) rarsa: But for what I'm reading I think it would be quite hard to do
(01:42:54) ^Cricket^: find a new one~
(01:43:03) NathanF: We need to tell them in no uncertain terms that it's behavior cheeses us off.
(01:43:10) Ted_Dog: GEM is open source
(01:43:10) PupUserMU: it was suggestest in their forum - they just said: use our python -app to get some applications like xearth to work.
(01:43:19) NathanF: And that there are better ways of doing this.
(01:43:48) cherriepuppy left the room.
(01:43:53) PupUserMU: i once wrote an icon-system in Perl
(01:43:54) rarsa: Look If that was the developer's desicion it's because it works for them.
(01:44:04) NathanF: Okay, well lets get back to trying to make a decision here.
(01:44:06) rarsa: Question: can we have the filer without the pinboard?
(01:44:09) PupUserMU: but far from being as usefull as rox
(01:44:11) rarsa: Can we use other desktop manager?
(01:44:22) NathanF: Yes, it's possible.
(01:44:22) HueyNym: use their calculator app to calculat and their browser app to browse, too
(01:44:25) klhrevolutionist: nautilus
(01:44:36) rarsa: I would like to explore that solution. Other desktop managers
(01:44:39) klhrevolutionist:
(01:44:48) ^Cricket^: nautalius needs to many deps
(01:44:50) NathanF: But if we add a desktop manager that's more KB, that we don't need.
(01:45:11) NathanF: So I think we should stay with ROX in some form
(01:45:16) PupUserMU: bombayrockers once had this.. idesk
(01:45:24) rarsa: like IDesk
(01:45:25) PupUserMU: with transparency.
(01:45:28) klhrevolutionist: I say we stick with the default rox. we are on some kinda time limit....
(01:45:34) PupUserMU: but no inbuilt filemanager
(01:45:42) ^Cricket^: Xtdesk ~
(01:46:00) PupUserMU: don't know xtdesk
(01:46:03) NathanF: I favor the old one. We can create a very nice package with what we have that will integrate nicely into Puppy, for those who prefer it.
(01:46:09) rarsa: I've used IDesk and it's quite small. the problem at that time is that you couldn't drag icons
(01:46:22) NathanF: And then the time has not been wasted.
(01:46:24) klhrevolutionist: http://garuda.newmail.ru/xtdesk_e.dhtml
(01:46:38) PupUserMU: rarsa - thats bad. so no choice for us i think
(01:46:46) HueyNym: I think we've strayed too far from Puppy at that point
(01:47:04) rarsa: That was 'then' I can investigate
(01:47:06) NathanF: I don't like the idea of upgrading ROX and then adding another desktop manager.
(01:47:07) klhrevolutionist: So shall we have an up and down vote on this /
(01:47:22) NathanF: Yes, it's about time for that.
(01:47:29) klhrevolutionist: default rox or rox 2.4
(01:47:29) HueyNym: I'll digress
(01:47:44) klhrevolutionist: I vote *default
(01:47:49) raffyMn: I seems our viable choice is to keep the default
(01:47:59) PupUserMU: 1.2
(01:48:01) Ted_Dog: Agree defualt
(01:48:08) vern72023: efault
(01:48:09) NathanF: I vote default, but create a nice package based on what we now have.
(01:48:13) NathanF: For 2.4
(01:48:17) rarsa: well, the point is that we could explore other desktips
(01:48:18) HueyNym: just as long as the 2.4 is still available as a dotpup
(01:48:23) PupUserMU: yes nathan
(01:48:28) Ted_Dog: Cooll
(01:48:34) NathanF: MU-yes, my point
(01:48:43) rarsa: 1.2
(01:49:01) Ted_Dog: 1.2
(01:49:07) vern72023: 1.2
(01:49:18) klhrevolutionist: As majority rules we shall stick with 1.2
(01:49:28) PupUserMU: sithillspeak? no opinion?
(01:49:31) SitHeelSpeak: I abstain --not enough experience.
(01:49:42) PupUserMU: ah ok
(01:49:53) klhrevolutionist: Is anybody else interested in giving rox 1.2 a nice theme besides me ?
(01:49:54) NathanF: Allright, then it's decided.
(01:50:02) HueyNym: motion carried
(01:50:05) J_Rey: big changes for 1.1.0 so keep it for now
(01:50:07) raffyMn: Next item is P2P
(01:50:11) PupUserMU: yes, that was a clear vote.
(01:50:31) klhrevolutionist: Nathan ?
(01:50:35) HueyNym: Crusty was just confustered with that one
(01:50:46) PupUserMU: transmission - small, easy - great
(01:51:03) NathanF: P2P-we can add Transmission and hardly notice it's presence so far as size goes.
(01:51:03) HueyNym: we could leave out the CLI and save another 67K
(01:51:06) rarsa: transmission.
(01:51:14) klhrevolutionist: transmission
(01:51:21) NathanF: Anyone that doesn't want it in?
(01:51:22) Ted_Dog: Yes Transmission
(01:51:26) vern72023: transmission
(01:51:28) raffyMn: wasn't that decided during the reports, that transmission is in the package already?
(01:51:40) HueyNym: yes
(01:51:41) klhrevolutionist: HueyNym what kinda functionality would we lose by leaving out the CLI ?
(01:51:46) PupUserMU: well now it is
(01:51:46) J_Rey: Transmission +1
(01:51:51) rarsa: (It was just to get the vote out of the way)
(01:52:18) NathanF: raffy-I did a test to see how it would affect things. I look at the big picture (overall size)
(01:52:25) HueyNym: only those people who wanted to use the command line version wouldn't be able to, it would be gui only
(01:52:42) raffyMn: No more discussions about P2P then?
(01:52:43) klhrevolutionist: Oh no let us leave the CLI in.
(01:52:44) MAX1 left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(01:52:52) Ted_Dog: It had a CLI??
(01:52:54) HueyNym: they are 2 separate executables
(01:53:05) NathanF: I wasn't aware of that
(01:53:09) HueyNym: yes
(01:53:23) HueyNym: the cli is 67K
(01:53:25) klhrevolutionist: Me niether but the CLI could be of good use later on down the road..
(01:53:29) NathanF: It complicates things, but it seems that all are in favor of adding it in some form
(01:53:36) J_Rey: CLI +1
(01:53:40) rarsa: Later down the road we add it if we need it.
(01:53:44) klhrevolutionist: true
(01:53:54) vern72023: that sounds good
(01:54:00) Ted_Dog: CLI --
(01:54:09) NathanF: I think that there should be commandline equivelents for every gui app, so add it too.
(01:54:10) HueyNym: it installs by default,
(01:54:39) klhrevolutionist: Agrees with Nathan
(01:54:39) HueyNym: but CTorrent is smaller
(01:54:53) klhrevolutionist: ctorrent has had large complaints.
(01:55:03) HueyNym: I couldnt ever use it
(01:55:11) NathanF: Yes, very few can understand ctorrent
(01:55:35) Ted_Dog: I am easily confused
(01:55:37) HueyNym: so nevermind what I said, and let's pretend Lobster isn't here
(01:55:49) raffyMn: Would Nathan like to move now to "Sylpheed" (next item)?
(01:55:51) J_Rey: if its under 100KB does it matter?
(01:55:52) rarsa: (I've had no problem with CTorrent but I've also noticed people complaining)
(01:56:09) NathanF: 100K matters in Puppy.
(01:56:20) NathanF: But we need this in my opinion
(01:56:22) HueyNym: it's not
(01:56:44) vern72023: why do we need sylpheed
(01:56:46) HueyNym: I agree (wait, wasn't it my idea??
(01:56:49) rarsa: This isn't a topic to fight for. Now next topic)
(01:56:51) vern72023: use webmail
(01:57:13) rarsa: Some people have slow connections vern72023 and pay for connection time
(01:57:24) klhrevolutionist: I vote for http://spruce.sourceforge.net/ Spruce
(01:57:26) rarsa: Those people still need an email client
(01:57:29) NathanF: Sorry, my last comment was in regard to torrents.
(01:57:42) HueyNym: I'm still on torrents as well...
(01:57:53) PupUserMU: no, sylpheed is my favourite app. easy to port old mails, when you set up a new puppy. no dependency on huge libraries
(01:57:54) HueyNym: did we close out torrents?
(01:58:06) rarsa: I would say that the desicion is to keep Transmission, CLI and all.
(01:58:07) NathanF: Torrents discussion now closed.
(01:58:16) HueyNym: seconded
(01:58:20) NathanF: What rarsa said.
(01:58:28) NathanF: On to email.
(01:58:30) HueyNym: moving on
(01:58:37) klhrevolutionist: The weight category... Spruce Mail weighs less.
(01:58:38) klhrevolutionist: bin file only
(01:58:38) klhrevolutionist: sylpheed = 997k
(01:58:38) klhrevolutionist: spruce 428k
(01:58:47) PupUserMU: had no look at spruce yet
(01:58:52) rarsa: (I'll abstain, I don't use email clients since 10 years ago)
(01:58:56) HueyNym: Pakt has problems with national characters, do you MU?
(01:59:11) NathanF: I like the numbers, but I couldn't get spruce to send mail.
(01:59:19) PupUserMU: no, but i mostly receive english mails
(01:59:30) PupUserMU: so i don't know
(01:59:33) HueyNym: Spruce is too much like elm
(01:59:45) HueyNym: ah.
(02:00:03) NathanF: I think that Spruce should be explored for a future release. But for 109, we need to decide about which version of Sylpheed to use.
(02:00:15) HueyNym: has anyone been able to compile the new version of sylpheed?
(02:00:17) Pizzasgood [n=Pizzasgo@adsl-223-35-219.aep.bellsouth.net] entered the room.
(02:00:25) mode (+o Pizzasgood ) by J_Rey
(02:00:27) NathanF: The new version only adds about ten K
(02:00:28) NeverMore_ [n=Nevermor@host220-175.pool876.interbusiness.it] entered the room.
(02:00:32) NeverMore_: hey all
(02:00:40) Pizzasgood: I'm here now
(02:00:44) raffyMn: (now discussing Sylpheed/email client)
(02:00:48) NathanF: Hi newcomers.
(02:00:56) HueyNym: how long ago was it removed from Puppy?
(02:01:12) NathanF: Sylpheed is still in as of 108
(02:01:21) NathanF: but not in Puppy2
(02:01:21) J_Rey: Sylpheed is not in 2.x releases....
(02:01:39) HueyNym: I was reading one of Barry's old news items about Spruce as an e-mail client in Puppy
(02:01:49) PupUserMU: national characters work fine for me, just tried it
(02:01:59) NathanF: In what version, MU
(02:02:01) NeverMore_ left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(02:02:48) PupUserMU: in puppy2 it is an unleashed package (Pupget)
(02:02:58) PupUserMU: thats ok, too.
(02:03:13) klhrevolutionist: I agree with Nathan's final answer on mail.
(02:03:15) PupUserMU: i use it in 108r1
(02:03:27) NathanF: klh-thanks.
(02:03:52) NathanF: I just checked total size, my original figures off.
(02:04:07) raffyMn: so just keeping it shall be fine?
(02:04:23) NathanF: 110K size difference uncompressed between the old version and the mst recent stable.
(02:04:40) HueyNym: ok. so if national characters work, I vote we keep 2.0.1 and someone tell pakt it's his problem
(02:04:54) klhrevolutionist: lol
(02:05:23) NathanF: Anyone else having problems with it at all, on the forum or anywhere else?
(02:05:31) Hachimitsu_to_Cl [n=me@pool-72-72-55-148.bstnma.east.verizon.net] entered the room.
(02:05:43) HueyNym: that's the only complaint I've heard
(02:05:49) NathanF: It's not a huge size difference to make the upgrade.
(02:06:14) NathanF: But do we actually need to?
(02:06:35) raffyMn: i move not
(02:06:37) HueyNym: Well, they've added Chinese
(02:07:09) NathanF: Chinese=billions of people=good for Puppy
(02:07:21) raffyMn: if there were recent changes as said, I take back the motion
(02:07:23) HueyNym: but I don't think that enough of a reason at this point
(02:07:46) J_Rey: -= before the 1.0.9 is finalized then lets make sure that it will still fully load in 128 MB RAM =-
(02:08:01) NathanF: Let's put it on the back burner for next release then.
(02:08:09) HueyNym: that's why I thought it might be a good idea at first,
(02:08:14) raffyMn: second that
(02:08:20) vern72023: agreed
(02:08:27) HueyNym: motion carried
(02:08:34) raffyMn: (Note: Mu's bg-changer has been discussed in the reports, so next item is File repository for 1.09)
(02:08:35) NathanF: Okay then. Next topic.
(02:09:14) Ted_Dog: I volunteer space
(02:09:22) NathanF: We need a package repo, and ther should be a commitment from the owner for a certain time period.
(02:09:37) NathanF: Ted_Dog-you're hired.
(02:09:46) NathanF: Which domain?
(02:09:50) klhrevolutionist: Nathan and I have discussed using blogtorrent as a tracker.
(02:10:00) Ted_Dog: Hoo Ra What 's the pay?
(02:10:23) NathanF: A lot of people using your bandwidth
(02:10:31) PupUserMU: I'm running out of space on my server - so it would be good, if the other ones could host it.
(02:10:48) NathanF: MU- I understand, and wasn't going to ask.
(02:10:54) Ted_Dog: Based on use puppylinux.net first , then puptrix still using less than 20% BW monthly
(02:11:03) rarsa: What's your bandwidtht ted?
(02:11:13) NathanF: Whoever hosts it should be prepared for a commitment to continue doing so.
(02:11:35) Ted_Dog: 1000 G /month Puptrix 250G /month Puppylinux.net
(02:11:37) NathanF: And not move it from place to place if possible.
(02:11:44) rarsa: Or at least to relinquish the domain when they decide to move on
(02:12:03) NathanF: I've had nightmares with this problem in Grafpup, moving from host to host.
(02:12:26) raffyMn: Babb's server is good, too, but he hasn't visited his server this week
(02:12:31) NathanF: So we need a commitment to keep it up, and in one place if at all possible.
(02:12:32) PupUserMU: yes, poor nathan, that was a hard time...
(02:13:04) NathanF: Just so you understand what you aree agreeing to.
(02:13:29) raffyMn: Ted: is puptrix the one with 1,000 g/month?
(02:13:35) Ted_Dog: BABBS & I have same host for puptrix, puppylinux on new host
(02:14:02) NathanF: Barry has said that we can continue to use nluug.org, but only as backup server.
(02:14:22) Ted_Dog: yes, prepaid for 2 yrs
(02:14:37) NathanF: Ted, can it be anon ftp on your space, or are we talking http transfer.
(02:14:51) ***J_Rey has wondered why puptrix.org has been underused
(02:14:51) raffyMn: The need seems to be for file repo admins
(02:15:00) NathanF: It can be set up either way, but ftp is preferred.
(02:15:48) raffyMn: Can I suggest that admin volunteers come up for it (the task)?
(02:15:59) Ted_Dog: That is the problem with the host, very little flex FTP ok but slow for me, Babbs can transfer from his to puptrix in seconds
(02:16:25) NathanF: So probably http transfer?
(02:16:37) Ted_Dog: no
(02:16:48) Rh1no [n=chatzill@nr22-69-61-147-225.fuse.net] entered the room.
(02:16:57) mode (+o Rh1no ) by J_Rey
(02:17:07) raffyMn: (discussing file repos for 1.09 now, Rhino)
(02:17:15) PupUserMU: hi rhino
(02:17:23) Rh1no: hello all
(02:18:04) NathanF: raffy-what we actually are proposing is an unleashed repo to take the place of the one at ibiblio, as per Barry's request.
(02:18:18) NathanF: So Pupget would point there.
(02:18:33) raffyMn: Yes, we seem to have the places (babb's and Ted's puptrix)
(02:18:47) NathanF: In fact, we may have to release a bugfix to point users of previous Puppy versions there.
(02:18:57) raffyMn: babb's puppyfiles.us
(02:19:19) NathanF: Because the ibiblio repo is being populated with Puppy2 packages
(02:19:35) HueyNym: which also means an update to DotPup downloader>]
(02:19:54) NathanF: Maybe.
(02:20:02) PupUserMU: no, downloader uses the wiki
(02:20:10) NathanF: That's what I thought.
(02:20:18) HueyNym: ok
(02:20:24) PupUserMU: we currently talk of the 109 -basesystem
(02:20:58) PupUserMU: you can install older dotpups on it, so no need for a change
(02:21:32) Ted_Dog: Does redirect affect downloader?
(02:21:37) raffyMn: how many people do use puget?
(02:21:42) NathanF: Well, Ted_Dog has volunteered to host. I don't see any reason not to take him up on it.
(02:21:45) raffyMn: pupget
(02:21:52) klhrevolutionist: This topic really brings up a host of other issues.......
(02:21:56) J_Rey: BBIAB
(02:22:00) PupUserMU: it should not, ted, as it uses wget.
(02:22:01) ***J_Rey is away: gone
(02:22:03) Ted_Dog: haa ha good one
(02:22:25) Rh1no: we need to update the links in the wiki then, because many of the dotpups that have been made are not included in the dotpup downloader. I will be glad to help if I can be explained what to do
(02:22:58) raffyMn: great, support Rino's point
(02:23:06) NathanF: Ted, I'll talk to you later then about setting up a repo?
(02:23:11) Ted_Dog: K
(02:23:24) PupUserMU: the wiki is easy.
(02:23:32) Rh1no: enlightenment and xfce are great packages, but it takes some searching on the forum to find them
(02:23:34) NathanF: Solved then. We need to move on.
(02:23:52) HueyNym: seconded
(02:23:53) klhrevolutionist: Okay next......
(02:23:55) PupUserMU: the files can be hosted anywhere, the wiki is just a page containing the links to them.
(02:24:22) rarsa: Regarding the dotpup repo... I have some ideas that may help puppy mature
(02:24:23) NathanF: Next issue is feature freeze and release schedule.
(02:24:42) PupUserMU: just add a link to the correct category, + a short text and a link to further information (homepage, forummessage)
(02:24:56) HueyNym: aren't the features already frozen?
(02:25:24) klhrevolutionist:
(02:25:37) NathanF: I may not have much computer access next week, going out of town to OK city, so you all may have to soldier on without me for a few days.
(02:25:50) HueyNym: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(02:25:59) HueyNym:
(02:26:02) raffyMn: Releases can be a regular item in the monthly meetings
(02:26:10) NathanF: I intend to put together a second alpha before leaving, and everyone can test.
(02:26:29) NathanF: No beta just yet.
(02:26:44) NathanF: But we need to set a target for release.
(02:26:55) NathanF: We'rte not too far off, already.
(02:27:33) NathanF: I think three weeks maybe?
(02:27:33) raffyMn: May 6 is next meeting - is that a possible target date?
(02:27:51) NathanF: raffy-it might be.
(02:27:53) rarsa: I would sugest one alpha/beta per week
(02:28:09) raffyMn: add perhaps 1 week - make it May 15?
(02:28:29) NathanF: yes, the 15th is doable.
(02:28:44) Ted_Dog: Mothers Day?
(02:28:44) NathanF: based on what I'm seeing
(02:28:44) PupUserMU: sounds reasonable
(02:28:57) HueyNym: what a Bitch
(02:29:07) NathanF: Oooohhhhh..........
(02:29:21) Pizzasgood: I thought Puppy was male
(02:29:28) HueyNym: then we can breed her
(02:29:36) NathanF: Target date of May 15th then.
(02:29:50) Ted_Dog: Target = shopping
(02:29:53) raffyMn: (Suggest to Nathan that Bugs Solved be next item)
(02:30:10) rarsa: target date sounds fair
(02:30:15) NathanF: I will release whatever is the curent state of development on Monday. Bugs solved is the next topic.
(02:30:35) klhrevolutionist: I reckon.
(02:30:35) HueyNym: seconded
(02:30:39) klhrevolutionist: third
(02:30:49) Ted_Dog: 4th
(02:31:00) NathanF: "I will release whatever is the curent state of development on Monday" as a second alpha
(02:31:02) raffyMn: For printing, let's not gorget this http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=6919
(02:31:10) klhrevolutionist: Well I am out. And with that I leave you with a link.
(02:31:15) klhrevolutionist: http://www.greenvilleroad.com/OtherArti ... rthur.html
(02:31:17) klhrevolutionist left the room.
(02:32:01) rarsa: OK I'll hurry preparing the XDG 0.7.2 tonight so it can be ready
(02:32:04) NathanF: Okay, on to bugs. We have a tracker, please start using it.
(02:32:18) rarsa: I registered but I'm just a 'reporter'
(02:32:19) NathanF: Not very many people are doing so.
(02:32:21) rarsa: what does that mean?
(02:32:23) HueyNym: Mantis?
(02:33:18) NathanF: I updated a few of the bugs on the tracker yesterday, but there's a whole bunch more.
(02:33:31) NathanF: Many of them are just feature requests
(02:33:50) NathanF: but a few are very serious IMHO
(02:34:12) NathanF: So please take a look and see what you can do
(02:34:19) rarsa: are we looking at the saame list?
(02:34:25) raffyMn: For records, here is the tracker URL: http://tracker.nfshost.com/mantis
(02:34:37) NathanF: I'm talking about the Mantis tracker
(02:34:41) rarsa: I see that all of them are requests and only one HW related
(02:34:48) rarsa: Yes, I'm looking at that
(02:36:21) NathanF: As for bugs fixed, the network/X crash bug is gone, as is the bug in Pupzip
(02:36:46) NathanF: And also I have reports that the new xkb folder has done it's job
(02:37:07) rarsa: I saw the request for a black rxvt still open but It's already in 1.0.9 alpha1
(02:37:32) NathanF: I didn't update the status on that, but commented on it
(02:37:32) HueyNym: it's a menu item now, right?
(02:37:36) NathanF: yes
(02:38:00) rarsa: Can we assign bugs to ourselves? or should we ask someone to assign it to us
(02:38:11) NathanF: But the menu still is nowhere near done. Rarsa will be working on that.
(02:38:32) NathanF: rarsa-I'd say if you can fix it please do.
(02:39:03) NathanF: There were only a few real assignments yet
(02:39:10) raffyMn: (Well, as Nathan is already using the tracker, we just need more people to get in there and help - update the posts, for example)
(02:39:19) NathanF: Yes.
(02:40:00) NathanF: Any other bugs found in the last alpha, while we're on the topic?
(02:40:31) raffyMn: Could we consider adjourning now? (motion)
(02:40:55) HueyNym: are we abstaining from the last item on the agenda?
(02:41:17) raffyMn: (can't decode that item
)(02:41:50) NathanF: The last item, future plans. Plans for another community edition after 109.
(02:41:58) HueyNym: planning for post Puppy2 (I vote to postpone that item for a future date)
(02:42:13) raffyMn: second Huey
(02:42:16) NathanF: A better system for doing so is in order.
(02:42:17) rarsa: I'd say lets defer that one for the next meeting
(02:42:18) HueyNym: anyone second?
(02:42:31) NathanF: Yes, I need to go soon.
(02:42:41) raffyMn: Note: I guess Barry needs now a machine with USB 2 for development
(02:42:44) NathanF: It is open for discussion on the forum
(02:43:07) HueyNym: is someone going to second my motion>
(02:43:13) Ted_Dog: 2nd
(02:43:14) NathanF: Any other issues or can we adjourn?
(02:43:20) HueyNym: seconded
(02:43:25) raffyMn: I did already, and rarsa
(02:43:34) Pizzasgood: 102nd
(02:43:48) rarsa: I 109nd the motion
(02:43:50) PupUserMU: I try to make a "universal-widget" based on the one of the Backgroundsetter. Might be usable to update some wizards with nice pictures. But that will be a never ending story
)(02:43:57) raffyMn: Move to adjourn then
(02:44:01) HueyNym: meeting's been called
(02:44:09) NathanF: Okay, until next time then. Meeting is closed, but feel free to stay and chat.
(02:44:26) PupUserMU: thanks nathan, bye all
(02:44:33) HueyNym: thanks all
(02:44:49) NathanF: MU-I've tried the widget you posted and it is good so far.
(02:45:02) NathanF: The start of a nice small useful utility.
(02:45:11) NathanF: Keep at it.
(02:45:14) raffyMn: Ah, Nathan, I ignored your comment that "Chair goes to Raffy" - am happy as meeting participant
(02:45:37) NathanF: raffy, are you staying a while?
(02:45:39) PupUserMU: I want to add more, like textwidget, bookmarkbutton etc. everything to switch on via rcfile.
(02:45:43) raffyMn: yes
(02:46:20) PupUserMU: But C needs lots of debugging, as memory allocation errors are easily overseen. So this grows slowly.
(02:46:37) NathanF: raffy-How soon can we get the updates you've been working on into the tree?
(02:47:08) NathanF: The menu system has to be in place ASAP
(02:47:20) rarsa: nice tlking to you
(02:47:39) NathanF: sorry, mistaken identity agin.
(02:47:50) NathanF:
(02:47:50) raffyMn: Those are easy points about printing, will PM you today
(02:48:02) rarsa: I'll upload tonight
(02:48:10) NathanF: rarsa-thanks
(02:48:32) raffyMn: raffy/rarsa - quite confusing
(02:48:42) rarsa: hahaha, I am the handsome one.
(02:48:50) NathanF: It shouldn't be. My fault.
(02:48:55) rarsa: I'm the one the ladies choose
(02:48:57) raffyMn: wait till you compare pix
(02:49:05) Pizzasgood: I get you both mixed up too
(02:49:27) NathanF: Pizzasgood-we went for ROX-1.2. Sorry.
(02:49:35) Pizzasgood: That's cool
(02:50:08) ***rarsa will let the women decide, raffy
(02:50:12) PupUserMU: so you have more time to develop your game
(02:50:15) raffyMn: lol
(02:50:22) Pizzasgood: It didn't really take long to sort out the package anyway, it was just hard finding the time to do it.
(02:50:47) Pizzasgood: Now it's done, so next time I want to remaster with it I won't have to do it again.
(02:50:50) PupUserMU: but we want rox2 as an optional package
(02:51:00) NathanF: Well, it was coming along very nicely. I think it should be released in some form.
(02:51:06) Rh1no: I would like to play with the new ROx as well
(02:51:23) NathanF: Maybe with my patches?
(02:51:37) NathanF: It does integrate well.
(02:51:45) Pizzasgood: So I should modify it to co-exist with the old Rox, like what GuestToo did with his dotpup?
(02:51:53) NathanF: I was nearly sold.
(02:51:57) Pizzasgood: Wouldn't be hard
(02:51:57) PupUserMU: Pizza, you will leave soon, right?
(02:52:04) Pizzasgood: May 29
(02:52:05) PupUserMU: to hollyday?
(02:52:12) Pizzasgood: Leading up to that I'll be pretty busy
(02:52:14) PupUserMU: 2 month?
(02:52:31) Pizzasgood: Yep. I'll be getting back end of July or beginning of August
(02:52:53) PupUserMU: thats long... I wish you lot of fun and inspiration there
(02:53:21) rarsa: NathanF: Why do you think that having a replacement Desktop manager is not a good idea?
(02:53:26) rarsa: (not for this version)
(02:53:40) rarsa: That solves the only problem we see in rox 2.4
(02:54:08) NathanF: I just don't like the idea of adding another program to handle what ROX should be able to do anyway.
(02:54:23) NathanF: That's inefficient use of resources.
(02:54:57) rarsa: can that be compiled out of ROX?
(02:55:08) NathanF: We could explore the idea for a ROX-2.4 package, though.
(02:55:19) NathanF: rarsa-it's too integrated.
(02:55:37) rarsa: OK
(02:56:06) klhrevolutionist [n=klhrevol@71.87.187.153] entered the room.
(02:56:11) Pizzasgood: Gotto go, bye
(02:56:21) Pizzasgood left the room.
(02:56:25) klhrevolutionist: Nathan, what size icons do you need for the rox theme ?
(02:56:25) klhrevolutionist: Nathan, what size icons do you need for the rox theme ?
(02:58:13) klhrevolutionist: Mu I sent you a pm on the forum concerning transmissioncli
(02:59:05) PupUserMU: jup, just saw it.
(02:59:39) klhrevolutionist: Very interesting none the less.
(02:59:50) PupUserMU: I can promise nothing, as I have other things waiting atm... but it will be on my "long list"
(03:00:02) klhrevolutionist: lol
(03:00:08) PupUserMU: transscript: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=47076#47076
(03:01:32) SitHeelSpeak: rarsa: ndjujoe1 is waiting on the other forum for instructions from you.
(03:01:42) Ted_Dog: Rarsa whats your Idea for dot-pup depot
(03:02:04) klhrevolutionist: rarsa has a great idea!
(03:02:48) klhrevolutionist: And that is to place files everywhere dedicated persons are willing to host. Then have the pupget and or dotpup to read the list from a centralized server such as puptrix.
(03:03:22) NathanF: That would require some hard coding work, but it's better in the long run
(03:03:23) Ted_Dog: That would be good, spead the load
(03:04:14) klhrevolutionist: It requires some tech, but yes very possible.
(03:04:34) HueyNym: then there wouldn't need to be a central "repository"
(03:04:47) klhrevolutionist: Yes and No
(03:05:09) klhrevolutionist: We would still need dedicated persons. But no we will not rely heavily upon one person.
(03:05:28) Ted_Dog: That is ideal
(03:06:22) NathanF: It is also something that was bewing discussed about Pupget.
(03:07:03) NathanF: Jmarsden and I had spoken about adding the ability to choose servers that it was set up for.
(03:07:27) PupUserMU: this is what the wiki does more or less? it is just a central linkpage. the dotpups itself are stored in the forum, and on other servers like noforum.de
(03:08:55) Ted_Dog: MU do you have a list of dotpups locations.... You have been the leader in the production
(03:08:55) HueyNym: I don't know - I always get my 8 gig of dotpups a day from dotpups.de
(03:09:04) NathanF: How hard would it be to add this type of capablility to Pupget? Or a replacement for Pupget?
(03:09:11) klhrevolutionist: Yes very similar in fact. But the dotpup downloader is biased as I mentioned in my pm.
(03:09:25) PupUserMU: ah i see, but currently one package is downloaded from only one server. so you mean to add mirrors, right?
(03:09:33) klhrevolutionist: Yes.
(03:09:45) NathanF: Exactly, preferably from a gui dialog.
(03:09:57) NathanF: And also update the package list.
(03:10:12) NathanF: Currently it's static until the next iso release.
(03:10:48) MAX1 [n=MMMMMMMA@166-171.tr.cgocable.ca] entered the room.
(03:10:57) PupUserMU: yes, that was my idea of realizing a .pet -repository, with a central list of mirrors (or a spread list). But as I said, there are sooooo many tasks to do atm...
(03:11:20) SitHeelSpeak: While I've got you all here: when Andrew Morton says something is "KConfigurable"...does that mean it is configurable at _boot_ time or at _compile_ time or...?
(03:12:01) PupUserMU: no idea, sit..
(03:12:16) HueyNym: I would surmise he means within the KDE environment...
(03:12:18) NathanF: Yes, MU, lets prioritize here.
(03:12:33) HueyNym: but I really don't know...
(03:12:49) SitHeelSpeak: Sorry, I thought this was less formal. I guess I'll just have to learn to compile the kernel and try it!
(03:13:23) Ted_Dog: Oh kernel config
(03:13:41) HueyNym: whoops
(03:14:13) Ted_Dog: my guess is compile time
(03:14:20) NathanF: Okay guys I have got to go. Thanks everybody.
(03:14:26) rarsa: It would not be difficult
(03:14:28) HueyNym: bye NathanF
(03:14:30) Ted_Dog: By
(03:14:33) NathanF left the room.
(03:14:40) PupUserMU: well it hangs together. something like the widget i always wanted to do, and had such approaches in the past. but they had limitations, like being based on perl. Now after years I understood how to program C, and want to enhance that. It then can be used for better tools like an enhanced downloader/installer.
(03:15:50) rarsa: Actually my idea for an official repository from contributed packages is more than that
(03:16:16) rarsa: I would sugest that every dotpup that is reviewed gets standardized and converted to a pupget
(03:16:31) HueyNym: by whom?
(03:16:36) rarsa: Pupget would require a face lift
(03:16:51) Ted_Dog: MU of course (long list)
(03:16:52) rarsa: By whoever volunteers. Like we are volunteering right now
(03:17:10) rarsa: I would review some, some others may review mine.
(03:18:14) HueyNym: based on what I've read, shouldn't pupget just be scrapped and a new tool be started from scratch?
(03:18:15) raffyMn: Mu's dotpups chooser systematically adds dotpups installed - can this replace pupget?
(03:18:29) rarsa: I think that it needs to evolve.
(03:18:52) PupUserMU: yes , by whom? currently we even dont have enough people to keep the wiki up to date.. for this reason i personally have doubts on human-dependent systems. Instead I would prefer a tool, that easily creates standard-packages. my alpha .pet -installer follows this approach.
(03:18:53) rarsa: 'systematically adds dotpups' what do you mean?
(03:19:33) rarsa: MU, I think that contributed packages must be reviewed/tested before being in the oficial repository
(03:19:36) raffyMn: if you add another dotpup, it gets into the dropdown list of the dotpup chooser
(03:20:01) rarsa: if you add it where?
(03:20:27) HueyNym: are you talking about the menu?
(03:20:31) rarsa: and what 'drop down list'?
(03:20:57) raffyMn: install the dotpup and the menu is updated (dotpup chooser added to main menu of Puppy)
(03:21:30) PupUserMU: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=7326 prototype, has still bugs in the menugeneration.
(03:21:50) raffyMn: (i mean the next-level menu of "Dotpups")
(03:22:36) mode (+o MAX1 ) by ^Cricket^
(03:22:36) mode (+o klhrevolutionist ) by ^Cricket^
(03:23:14) vern72023 left the room (quit: "CGI:IRC (EOF)").
(03:23:26) Ted_Dog: how does debian do it? can we copy /rename to .pet ...
(03:24:10) rarsa: Oh, MU, I've just found something
(03:24:21) ^Cricket^: ted_dog debain uses a menu registry
(03:24:30) rarsa: I'm implementing the XDG menus which would simplify the 'menugeneration' part of your application
(03:24:47) rarsa: but the fact is that it won't work as is.
(03:25:02) rarsa: so, menu generation will be different between pre109 and post 109
(03:25:11) ^Cricket^: check out arch linuxes menumaker package
(03:25:13) Ted_Dog: I was think of the repostory / synaptic install methods
(03:25:47) Ted_Dog: what is arch based on?
(03:25:54) ^Cricket^: LFS/CRUX
(03:26:01) Ted_Dog: Ah
(03:26:03) PupUserMU: you can install a .deb with the debian-installer. It creates a list for Pupget for uninstallation, like an unleashed tar.gz (plus menu and description). The Pet-creator now reads these informations from the installed .deb , and adds the files to a new tar.gz. As the new tar.gz includes additional info like the menu, it gets a new suffix .pet000.
(03:29:34) raffyMn: Mu: Is this part of 1.08r1 (the dotpups chooser)? http://ph-islands.net/puppy/dotpups_chooser_menu.jpg
(03:30:59) PupUserMU: This menu-entry is created by all dotpups, that you create with Dotpup-Wizard06. Wait, I search the link
(03:31:32) PupUserMU: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... ght=wizard
(03:32:14) rarsa: Can you modify the Dotpup wizard to 'create' the .desktop file if there is none available?
(03:32:32) PupUserMU: The .pet is even better, as it supports submenus.
(03:32:52) Ted_Dog: MU, your xine-XXVC stuff works great with my nivia cards ( the new and very old) would you PM me your config method, could it be available in 1.09?
(03:33:31) raffyMn: OK - just want to tell you it's that useful already
(03:33:36) PupUserMU: I once had a look at those files, and did not understand the structure. But I will try again, not that they are in Puppy109
(03:34:14) Ted_Dog: It performs much better than even XP DVD players
(03:34:30) PupUserMU: Ted, ask tempestous, he made it. I just host the package.
(03:35:04) Ted_Dog: Oh K sorry to give you credit, its a great package
(03:35:15) raffyMn: Rarsa to Mu: "Can you modify the Dotpup wizard to 'create' the .desktop file if there is none available?"
(03:36:24) PupUserMU: yes, great work he does. he currently tries to compile 3D-drivers for Puppy2. I hope he did not get too far already, as we now have the switch from 2.4.31 to 2.6
(03:36:52) PupUserMU: Mu to rarsa: I once had a look at those files, and did not understand the structure. But I will try again, not that they are in Puppy109
(03:36:57) HueyNym: wouldn't that just involve creating the .desktop file by hand and adding to the package - or are you asking for autogeneration?
(03:37:30) Ted_Dog: Yes the difference in video support in 2.6 is great, I can hardly wait for Berry to release a 2.6 Alpha
(03:37:31) PupUserMU: now that they are in Puppy109
(03:37:36) HueyNym: because he already said he didn't understand the structure of the .desktop file...
(03:38:28) rarsa: yes, actually working with XDG is way way easier than working with menus directly
(03:38:48) PupUserMU: a .desktop looks quite complex, while a Debian .menu has just 1-3 lines.
(03:38:49) rarsa: just use one of the files included in 109 as a template
(03:39:26) PupUserMU: yes rarsa, I will try that. But I can't say when...
(03:39:30) HueyNym: it really isn't THAT complex, once you study it for a few hours...
(03:39:45) rarsa: it's under /usr/share/applications/
(03:40:56) PupUserMU: ok, tuxracer is easy to read
(03:41:40) PupUserMU: will try to add it this week.
(03:42:54) rarsa: I can have a look at that if you want.
(03:43:11) PupUserMU: is there a list with all categories? So I can add a menu, where the Dotpup-creator (the human) can choose from then?
(03:43:21) rarsa: yes. there is
(03:43:25) rarsa: wait a sec
(03:45:33) rarsa: here it is http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-s ... t/apa.html
(03:46:27) PupUserMU: ok, thanks. I add this "afterdiskussion to the transscript.
(03:46:49) rarsa: OK. I'm off to finish the XDG package as I promissed
(03:46:57) rarsa: If I stay here I won't finish
(03:47:05) HueyNym: good luck!
(03:47:07) PupUserMU: but now I must go asleep, was already tired somehours ago
(03:47:09) Ted_Dog: go rarsa go
(03:47:17) Ted_Dog: bye all
(03:47:21) HueyNym: sleep mu. sleep
(03:47:27) PupUserMU: good night all
(03:47:32) SitHeelSpeak: Bye Ted. Bye MU
(03:47:33) HueyNym: bye
(03:47:35) rarsa: bye
(03:47:36) rarsa left the room.
(03:47:45) Ted_Dog left the room ("Leaving").
(02:58:13) klhrevolutionist: Mu I sent you a pm on the forum concerning transmissioncli
(02:59:05) PupUserMU: jup, just saw it.
(02:59:39) klhrevolutionist: Very interesting none the less.
(02:59:50) PupUserMU: I can promise nothing, as I have other things waiting atm... but it will be on my "long list"
(03:00:02) klhrevolutionist: lol
(03:00:08) PupUserMU: transscript: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?p=47076#47076
(03:01:32) SitHeelSpeak: rarsa: ndjujoe1 is waiting on the other forum for instructions from you.
(03:01:42) Ted_Dog: Rarsa whats your Idea for dot-pup depot
(03:02:04) klhrevolutionist: rarsa has a great idea!
(03:02:48) klhrevolutionist: And that is to place files everywhere dedicated persons are willing to host. Then have the pupget and or dotpup to read the list from a centralized server such as puptrix.
(03:03:22) NathanF: That would require some hard coding work, but it's better in the long run
(03:03:23) Ted_Dog: That would be good, spead the load
(03:04:14) klhrevolutionist: It requires some tech, but yes very possible.
(03:04:34) HueyNym: then there wouldn't need to be a central "repository"
(03:04:47) klhrevolutionist: Yes and No
(03:05:09) klhrevolutionist: We would still need dedicated persons. But no we will not rely heavily upon one person.
(03:05:28) Ted_Dog: That is ideal
(03:06:22) NathanF: It is also something that was bewing discussed about Pupget.
(03:07:03) NathanF: Jmarsden and I had spoken about adding the ability to choose servers that it was set up for.
(03:07:27) PupUserMU: this is what the wiki does more or less? it is just a central linkpage. the dotpups itself are stored in the forum, and on other servers like noforum.de
(03:08:55) Ted_Dog: MU do you have a list of dotpups locations.... You have been the leader in the production
(03:08:55) HueyNym: I don't know - I always get my 8 gig of dotpups a day from dotpups.de
(03:09:04) NathanF: How hard would it be to add this type of capablility to Pupget? Or a replacement for Pupget?
(03:09:11) klhrevolutionist: Yes very similar in fact. But the dotpup downloader is biased as I mentioned in my pm.
(03:09:25) PupUserMU: ah i see, but currently one package is downloaded from only one server. so you mean to add mirrors, right?
(03:09:33) klhrevolutionist: Yes.
(03:09:45) NathanF: Exactly, preferably from a gui dialog.
(03:09:57) NathanF: And also update the package list.
(03:10:12) NathanF: Currently it's static until the next iso release.
(03:10:48) MAX1 [n=MMMMMMMA@166-171.tr.cgocable.ca] entered the room.
(03:10:57) PupUserMU: yes, that was my idea of realizing a .pet -repository, with a central list of mirrors (or a spread list). But as I said, there are sooooo many tasks to do atm...
(03:11:20) SitHeelSpeak: While I've got you all here: when Andrew Morton says something is "KConfigurable"...does that mean it is configurable at _boot_ time or at _compile_ time or...?
(03:12:01) PupUserMU: no idea, sit..
(03:12:16) HueyNym: I would surmise he means within the KDE environment...
(03:12:18) NathanF: Yes, MU, lets prioritize here.
(03:12:33) HueyNym: but I really don't know...
(03:12:49) SitHeelSpeak: Sorry, I thought this was less formal. I guess I'll just have to learn to compile the kernel and try it!
(03:13:23) Ted_Dog: Oh kernel config
(03:13:41) HueyNym: whoops
(03:14:13) Ted_Dog: my guess is compile time
(03:14:20) NathanF: Okay guys I have got to go. Thanks everybody.
(03:14:26) rarsa: It would not be difficult
(03:14:28) HueyNym: bye NathanF
(03:14:30) Ted_Dog: By
(03:14:33) NathanF left the room.
(03:14:40) PupUserMU: well it hangs together. something like the widget i always wanted to do, and had such approaches in the past. but they had limitations, like being based on perl. Now after years I understood how to program C, and want to enhance that. It then can be used for better tools like an enhanced downloader/installer.
(03:15:50) rarsa: Actually my idea for an official repository from contributed packages is more than that
(03:16:16) rarsa: I would sugest that every dotpup that is reviewed gets standardized and converted to a pupget
(03:16:31) HueyNym: by whom?
(03:16:36) rarsa: Pupget would require a face lift
(03:16:51) Ted_Dog: MU of course (long list)
(03:16:52) rarsa: By whoever volunteers. Like we are volunteering right now
(03:17:10) rarsa: I would review some, some others may review mine.
(03:18:14) HueyNym: based on what I've read, shouldn't pupget just be scrapped and a new tool be started from scratch?
(03:18:15) raffyMn: Mu's dotpups chooser systematically adds dotpups installed - can this replace pupget?
(03:18:29) rarsa: I think that it needs to evolve.
(03:18:52) PupUserMU: yes , by whom? currently we even dont have enough people to keep the wiki up to date.. for this reason i personally have doubts on human-dependent systems. Instead I would prefer a tool, that easily creates standard-packages. my alpha .pet -installer follows this approach.
(03:18:53) rarsa: 'systematically adds dotpups' what do you mean?
(03:19:33) rarsa: MU, I think that contributed packages must be reviewed/tested before being in the oficial repository
(03:19:36) raffyMn: if you add another dotpup, it gets into the dropdown list of the dotpup chooser
(03:20:01) rarsa: if you add it where?
(03:20:27) HueyNym: are you talking about the menu?
(03:20:31) rarsa: and what 'drop down list'?
(03:20:57) raffyMn: install the dotpup and the menu is updated (dotpup chooser added to main menu of Puppy)
(03:21:30) PupUserMU: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=7326 prototype, has still bugs in the menugeneration.
(03:21:50) raffyMn: (i mean the next-level menu of "Dotpups")
(03:22:36) mode (+o MAX1 ) by ^Cricket^
(03:22:36) mode (+o klhrevolutionist ) by ^Cricket^
(03:23:14) vern72023 left the room (quit: "CGI:IRC (EOF)").
(03:23:26) Ted_Dog: how does debian do it? can we copy /rename to .pet ...
(03:24:10) rarsa: Oh, MU, I've just found something
(03:24:21) ^Cricket^: ted_dog debain uses a menu registry
(03:24:30) rarsa: I'm implementing the XDG menus which would simplify the 'menugeneration' part of your application
(03:24:47) rarsa: but the fact is that it won't work as is.
(03:25:02) rarsa: so, menu generation will be different between pre109 and post 109
(03:25:11) ^Cricket^: check out arch linuxes menumaker package
(03:25:13) Ted_Dog: I was think of the repostory / synaptic install methods
(03:25:47) Ted_Dog: what is arch based on?
(03:25:54) ^Cricket^: LFS/CRUX
(03:26:01) Ted_Dog: Ah
(03:26:03) PupUserMU: you can install a .deb with the debian-installer. It creates a list for Pupget for uninstallation, like an unleashed tar.gz (plus menu and description). The Pet-creator now reads these informations from the installed .deb , and adds the files to a new tar.gz. As the new tar.gz includes additional info like the menu, it gets a new suffix .pet000.
(03:29:34) raffyMn: Mu: Is this part of 1.08r1 (the dotpups chooser)? http://ph-islands.net/puppy/dotpups_chooser_menu.jpg
(03:30:59) PupUserMU: This menu-entry is created by all dotpups, that you create with Dotpup-Wizard06. Wait, I search the link
(03:31:32) PupUserMU: http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... ght=wizard
(03:32:14) rarsa: Can you modify the Dotpup wizard to 'create' the .desktop file if there is none available?
(03:32:32) PupUserMU: The .pet is even better, as it supports submenus.
(03:32:52) Ted_Dog: MU, your xine-XXVC stuff works great with my nivia cards ( the new and very old) would you PM me your config method, could it be available in 1.09?
(03:33:31) raffyMn: OK - just want to tell you it's that useful already
(03:33:36) PupUserMU: I once had a look at those files, and did not understand the structure. But I will try again, not that they are in Puppy109
(03:34:14) Ted_Dog: It performs much better than even XP DVD players
(03:34:30) PupUserMU: Ted, ask tempestous, he made it. I just host the package.
(03:35:04) Ted_Dog: Oh K sorry to give you credit, its a great package
(03:35:15) raffyMn: Rarsa to Mu: "Can you modify the Dotpup wizard to 'create' the .desktop file if there is none available?"
(03:36:24) PupUserMU: yes, great work he does. he currently tries to compile 3D-drivers for Puppy2. I hope he did not get too far already, as we now have the switch from 2.4.31 to 2.6
(03:36:52) PupUserMU: Mu to rarsa: I once had a look at those files, and did not understand the structure. But I will try again, not that they are in Puppy109
(03:36:57) HueyNym: wouldn't that just involve creating the .desktop file by hand and adding to the package - or are you asking for autogeneration?
(03:37:30) Ted_Dog: Yes the difference in video support in 2.6 is great, I can hardly wait for Berry to release a 2.6 Alpha
(03:37:31) PupUserMU: now that they are in Puppy109
(03:37:36) HueyNym: because he already said he didn't understand the structure of the .desktop file...
(03:38:28) rarsa: yes, actually working with XDG is way way easier than working with menus directly
(03:38:48) PupUserMU: a .desktop looks quite complex, while a Debian .menu has just 1-3 lines.
(03:38:49) rarsa: just use one of the files included in 109 as a template
(03:39:26) PupUserMU: yes rarsa, I will try that. But I can't say when...
(03:39:30) HueyNym: it really isn't THAT complex, once you study it for a few hours...
(03:39:45) rarsa: it's under /usr/share/applications/
(03:40:56) PupUserMU: ok, tuxracer is easy to read
(03:41:40) PupUserMU: will try to add it this week.
(03:42:54) rarsa: I can have a look at that if you want.
(03:43:11) PupUserMU: is there a list with all categories? So I can add a menu, where the Dotpup-creator (the human) can choose from then?
(03:43:21) rarsa: yes. there is
(03:43:25) rarsa: wait a sec
(03:45:33) rarsa: here it is http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-s ... t/apa.html
(03:46:27) PupUserMU: ok, thanks. I add this "afterdiskussion to the transscript.
(03:46:49) rarsa: OK. I'm off to finish the XDG package as I promissed
(03:46:57) rarsa: If I stay here I won't finish
(03:47:05) HueyNym: good luck!
(03:47:07) PupUserMU: but now I must go asleep, was already tired somehours ago
(03:47:09) Ted_Dog: go rarsa go
(03:47:17) Ted_Dog: bye all
(03:47:21) HueyNym: sleep mu. sleep
(03:47:27) PupUserMU: good night all
(03:47:32) SitHeelSpeak: Bye Ted. Bye MU
(03:47:33) HueyNym: bye
(03:47:35) rarsa: bye
(03:47:36) rarsa left the room.
(03:47:45) Ted_Dog left the room ("Leaving").
-
Lobster
- Official Crustacean
- Posts: 15522
- Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 06:06
- Location: Paradox Realm
- Contact:
Sorry I could not make meeting 
Very impressed with your guys decisions - well done to everyone who turned up Hope I do not sound patronising 
From what I understand:
Can we have feedback on this? Someone interested in collating, collecting potential coders, other distros using 1.2 etc.
Rox (IMO - note no humility as in IMHO - In My Humble Opinion)
- ahem . . .
Rox IMO is one of the "stars" of Puppy - fast and sweet
I am very pleased that an idiots version (suits me) of p2p is to be included. This will mean we can download media and overcome bandwidth by sharing load - this is a big plus that we may see in Puppy2 . . . a nice and simple and potentially far reaching decision
Another sensible decision - XDG menus - allowing choice of WM - this is more for developers. JWM is the default BUT if people choose another WM it will use the familiar menu system.
Nathan will release a second Alpha Monday and the final Puppy 1.09 release is set.
This seems to have been a mature and balanced meeting. Retaining and improving where required.
Again well done guys
Very impressed with your guys decisions - well done to everyone who turned up
Hope I do not sound patronising From what I understand:
- Rox 1.2 retained
transmission p2p added
XDG menus added
Second Alpha release Monday
May 15 is release date for Puppy 1.09
Can we have feedback on this? Someone interested in collating, collecting potential coders, other distros using 1.2 etc.
Rox (IMO - note no humility as in IMHO - In My Humble Opinion)
- ahem . . .
Rox IMO is one of the "stars" of Puppy - fast and sweet
I am very pleased that an idiots version (suits me) of p2p is to be included. This will mean we can download media and overcome bandwidth by sharing load - this is a big plus that we may see in Puppy2 . . . a nice and simple and potentially far reaching decision
Another sensible decision - XDG menus - allowing choice of WM - this is more for developers. JWM is the default BUT if people choose another WM it will use the familiar menu system.
Nathan will release a second Alpha Monday and the final Puppy 1.09 release is set.
This seems to have been a mature and balanced meeting. Retaining and improving where required.
Again well done guys
MU, thanks for posting the transcript of the meeting. The meeting is much too late for me (after midnight in this part of the world). Unfortunately I have problems with chronic fatigue and need my sleep
Mark, I read that you tested Sylpheed briefy during the meeting and didn't have any problems with i8n characters. That is also the case for me _most of the time_ . The problem occurs with some newsletters I get in Swedish. Here is an edited quote from my bug report:
[quote]This is how Sylpheed renders i8n characters from an excerpt of a Swedish computer magazine email newsletter:
Ett och annat guldkorn står att finna i det allt tätare nätet
This should read:
Ett och annat guldkorn st
Mark, I read that you tested Sylpheed briefy during the meeting and didn't have any problems with i8n characters. That is also the case for me _most of the time_ . The problem occurs with some newsletters I get in Swedish. Here is an edited quote from my bug report:
[quote]This is how Sylpheed renders i8n characters from an excerpt of a Swedish computer magazine email newsletter:
Ett och annat guldkorn står att finna i det allt tätare nätet
This should read:
Ett och annat guldkorn st
Methinks Raspberry Pi were ideal for runnin' Puppy Linux
-
Nathan F
- Posts: 1764
- Joined: Wed 08 Jun 2005, 14:45
- Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)
- Contact:
pakt-I knew you would be disappointed over the Sylpheed decision, but the upgrade hasn't been completely written off. It just got pushed to the back burner for a while. It should be relatively easy to provide a dotpup to update it if you'd like.
It looks like I missed some important discussion after leaving. I've looked at how the xdg menu system works and it's not so bad as it seems at first. Taks a look at rarsa's .desktop files in the new package and they are much simpler than others I have seen. I think they could be faily easy to generate using a wizard, that collects user input for the name of the program, icon, command, and category. This is a little better than the 'dotpups' menu added to the main menu, as it could integrate right into the main menu in the various subcategories.
In any event there will be a much fuller implementation of the system in the next alpha, so you can study how it works a little if you like and maybe even play with adding a few apps or changing the menu structure. I created an updated Cinepaint dotpup late last night and included the .desktop file in it, and it just shows right up in the graphics menu automatically. Works like a charm. However 109 will probably have a conventional menu with a 'programs' submenu that uses xdg generation because we need some time to get the .desktop files into dotpups and pupgets, and maybe even dotpets and squashfiles.
Nathan
It looks like I missed some important discussion after leaving. I've looked at how the xdg menu system works and it's not so bad as it seems at first. Taks a look at rarsa's .desktop files in the new package and they are much simpler than others I have seen. I think they could be faily easy to generate using a wizard, that collects user input for the name of the program, icon, command, and category. This is a little better than the 'dotpups' menu added to the main menu, as it could integrate right into the main menu in the various subcategories.
In any event there will be a much fuller implementation of the system in the next alpha, so you can study how it works a little if you like and maybe even play with adding a few apps or changing the menu structure. I created an updated Cinepaint dotpup late last night and included the .desktop file in it, and it just shows right up in the graphics menu automatically. Works like a charm. However 109 will probably have a conventional menu with a 'programs' submenu that uses xdg generation because we need some time to get the .desktop files into dotpups and pupgets, and maybe even dotpets and squashfiles.
Nathan
Bring on the locusts ...
Thanks, Nathan. I just wanted to clarify the problem I discovered with Sylpheed -- that it works _most_ of the time but not under certain (reproducible) circumstances. It would definitely be interesting to test the update to see if it shows the same bug.Nathan F wrote:pakt-I knew you would be disappointed over the Sylpheed decision, but the upgrade hasn't been completely written off. It just got pushed to the back burner for a while. It should be relatively easy to provide a dotpup to update it if you'd like.
Perhaps I should file a bug report on the Sylpheed website. I haven't actually looked there to see if anyone has reported this problem.
PaulMethinks Raspberry Pi were ideal for runnin' Puppy Linux