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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Grub4DosConfig
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2602
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 03:52    Post subject: Windows recovery on HDD  

nooby wrote:
# fdisk -l /dev/sda

Disk /dev/sda: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 1 1567 12586896 27 Unknown
/dev/sda2 * 1568 1580 104422+ 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3 1581 30402 231506210 7 HPFS/NTFS

Thanks for your PC's information.
Humm.. the first partition (Unknown) is questionable. Can you see inside sda1 from Puppy?
Will you show me the result of probepart?
Code:
probepart

I guess:
  • sda1 is the recovery system.
  • sda2 is normal boot of Windows, you can see 'Boot' directory in it?
  • sda3 is where main Windows system, you can see 'Windows' directory in it? And maybe this is 'C:' from the Windows 7.

Right?

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 06:19    Post subject:  

Sorry delay have to go buy food. Smile
# probepart
/dev/sda1|ntfs|25173792
/dev/sda2|ntfs|208844
/dev/sda3|ntfs|463012420
#

Sda1 have

acerboot
boot
systemvolumeinformation
factory
sources

and it have mbr
and your mbr backup sda_mbr.bak
and menu.lst

Sda2 have
boot
systemvolumeinformation
bootmgr


Sda3 has
all the rest. windows and puppy and most likely is seen as root.

So the boot mbr backup and menu.lst seems to have ended up in the recovery partition?

Unless sda2 is something else?

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2602
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 09:56    Post subject: recovery partition  

nooby wrote:
# probepart
/dev/sda1|ntfs|25173792
/dev/sda2|ntfs|208844
/dev/sda3|ntfs|463012420

What i guessed.
nooby wrote:
So the boot mbr backup and menu.lst seems to have ended up in the recovery partition?
Unless sda2 is something else?

Maybe no problem the grldr, menu.lst and sda_mbr.bak on sda1 when Puppy can access them.
The problem was the boot menu mislead to the recovery windows on sda1 instead of the usual Windows boot from sda2.
It is fixed with grub4dosconfig v1.6.1 and later.
Thanks.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 10:39    Post subject:  

So what do you suggest the poor fellow that complained to Barry should do.

As I get it he had same problem like I had only that he actually used the recovery not being aware of that one needed to change the menu.lst like you told me to.

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
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PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 22:38    Post subject: MBR issue  

nooby wrote:
So what do you suggest the poor fellow that complained to Barry should do.
As I get it he had same problem like I had only that he actually used the recovery not being aware of that one needed to change the menu.lst like you told me to.

I am sorry with the broomdodger case and sorry i was lacking knowledge on the special installation of windows.
But i believe recent grub4dosconfig is safe thanks to the information from nooby and Barry.
I know the way ICPUG provides are safe as for the Windows Xp, because it is easy to edit 'boot.ini' in case Windows Xp.
But we also needs univarsal way when the Windows 7 era. I think it is not safe for newbies editing boot configurations manually.

We may need to encourage to make rescue media to see how it works before applying the grub4dos on the hard disk.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61348
Of course i proceed refining the grub4dosconfig more easy and safe.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 05:18    Post subject:  

Thanks Shinobar,

much appreciated that you care.

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broomdodger


Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 269
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 13:15    Post subject: grub and Lin'N'Win  

grub and Lin'N'Win
I had trouble with grub4dos on this particular machine, HP Media Center m7160n with Windows XP. I do not know if it was the MBR or the menu.lst. I tried fixmbr, fixboot and many different menu.lst settings with no joy. Previously on several other machines I installed grub or grub4dos no problem.

Not being able to gracefully recover the WinXP install, I let System Recover do its thing, grrr, then all the Windows updates and hours later the WinXP is running again. I lost time but no data, well this PC tower is going to a friend so there really was not much to lose.

That said, I ALWAYS want the option to boot Windows or Linux, though Linux is where I work.

Why would anyone choose to do a grub[4dos] install that would write the MBR?

NOW I know there is a safer and simpler alternative!
Thank you for all the suggestions, especially "Lin'N'Win".
<http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/linnwin/step00-linnwin.htm>

Next task... restore the MBR on a working grub install and change to "Lin'N'Win".

Has anyone sucessfully used "Lin'N'Win" with Windows ME?
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ICPUG

Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 1289
Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 14:04    Post subject:  

broomdodger,

No one has successfully used Lin'N'Win with Windows ME unless they have seriously messed with ME!

ME has real mode DOS turned off - in an effort to speed the boot process (and pretend that Windows is not reliant on DOS?).

Lin'N'Win hooks into the Windows 9X boot process via config.sys which uses real mode DOS.

It IS possible to turn real mode DOS back on. Google for 'windows me real mode' and you will see links. Once you do that it should be possible to use Lin'N'Win but I don't know of anyone who has done it.

May I also take the opportunity to ask you to read the technical page on the Lin'N'Win site about the changes needed if Windows is not located on the first partition of the first disk, which Shinobar thinks was the reason for your problems on that HP Media Centre PC. Lin'N'Win will not break Windows if this is the case but it needs some adjustment to menu.lst to get Linux booted.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 15:12    Post subject:  

broomdodger,

Here is the menu.lst code that Shinobar gave me and that actually did work.

You could at least try it. If it goes to teh wrong part you only have to gracefully shut down from windows.

Nothing wrong can happen as long as you don't say yes to any command they ask for to get completed.

I had same experience as you but did not go ahead with the recover process. I backed out of that one and asked Shinobar what to do instead and he came up with a working solution

# Windows

title Windows Vista/2008/7\nBoot up Windows Vista/2008/7 if installed
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /bootmgr

As I get it this allow me to boot any OS on the machine as long as I get code to the initrd if it is a puppie or maybe initrd.lz if it is older type ubuntu.

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broomdodger


Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 269
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 16:33    Post subject:  

ICPUG wrote:
broomdodger,
No one has successfully used Lin'N'Win with Windows ME unless they have seriously messed with ME!

ME has real mode DOS turned off - in an effort to speed the boot process (and pretend that Windows is not reliant on DOS?).

Lin'N'Win hooks into the Windows 9X boot process via config.sys which uses real mode DOS.

It IS possible to turn real mode DOS back on. Google for 'windows me real mode' and you will see links. Once you do that it should be possible to use Lin'N'Win but I don't know of anyone who has done it.
Thank you, for the info about WinME. From the (your?) Lin'N'Win site it seemed given that it worked. I keep some old PCs around for testing. On that WinME PC I will go back to grub and MBR as it worked.

ICPUG wrote:
May I also take the opportunity to ask you to read the technical page on the Lin'N'Win site about the changes needed if Windows is not located on the first partition of the first disk, which Shinobar thinks was the reason for your problems on that HP Media Centre PC. Lin'N'Win will not break Windows if this is the case but it needs some adjustment to menu.lst to get Linux booted.
I thought I mentioned having another PC configured similarly, partitions, wary, menu.lst and it worked writing the MBR, but not this HP Media Center. It has been "restored", upgraded and is going to a friend. So... I will never know the problem.

But... I have some other PCs not spoken for that I will try.

Question: I read, maybe on the Lin'N'Win site, something about compatibility with Windows 7 and Lin'N'Win -- that it may be more compatible to use grub4dos. What can you tell me about that?
-Bill
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broomdodger


Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 269
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 17:00    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Here is the menu.lst code that Shinobar gave me and that actually did work.

You could at least try it. If it goes to teh wrong part you only have to gracefully shut down from windows.

Nothing wrong can happen as long as you don't say yes to any command they ask for to get completed.

I had same experience as you but did not go ahead with the recover process. I backed out of that one and asked Shinobar what to do instead and he came up with a working solution

# Windows

title Windows Vista/2008/7\nBoot up Windows Vista/2008/7 if installed
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /bootmgr

As I get it this allow me to boot any OS on the machine as long as I get code to the initrd if it is a puppie or maybe initrd.lz if it is older type ubuntu.

Thank you, nooby. That is for Vista/2008/7 and I am using XP.

My menu.lst was similar but chainloader pointing to ntldr. I tried both of these, same problem:

title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /ntldr

title Windows XP
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

But 'either' of these worked on another similarly configured PC, same partitions, etc.

-Bill
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2602
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 20:10    Post subject: Special Windows (HP m7160n)  

broomdodger wrote:
My menu.lst was similar but chainloader pointing to ntldr. I tried both of these, same problem:

title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader /ntldr

title Windows XP
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /ntldr
chainloader /ntldr

But 'either' of these worked on another similarly configured PC, same partitions, etc.

Thanks Bill for joining us.
Can you find from Puppy 'ntrldr' at /mnt/sda1 or /mnt/sda2, or somewhere else?
Is it hidden somewhere?

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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2602
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed 24 Nov 2010, 22:49    Post subject: Chainload  

Or, simply we could do:
Quote:
Title Windows on /dev/sda2
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader +1

See another variations:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=466691#466691

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broomdodger


Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 269
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

PostPosted: Thu 25 Nov 2010, 00:17    Post subject: Re: Special Windows (HP m7160n)  

shinobar wrote:
Can you find from Puppy 'ntrldr' at /mnt/sda1 or /mnt/sda2, or somewhere else?
Is it hidden somewhere?

Are you asking where ntldr is located? If yes, /mnt/sda2.

Yes it is a hidden protected operating system file when viewed from Windows, easy to see from a Puppy.
It is the WinXT and Win2000 loader ie based on "NT Technology" also known as c:\ntldr
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2602
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu 25 Nov 2010, 00:23    Post subject: Re: Special Windows (HP m7160n)  

broomdodger wrote:
shinobar wrote:
Can you find from Puppy 'ntrldr' at /mnt/sda1 or /mnt/sda2, or somewhere else?
Is it hidden somewhere?

Are you asking where ntldr is located? If yes, /mnt/sda2.

Thanks, broomdodger. I believe the grub4dosconfig v1.6.1 and later can manage. But also i am refining it more safe and easy.

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